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Musa Publishing

James D. Macdonald

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Just like authors, you can find good editors at all the points along the Love-->Money axis.

The standard deals in various parts of the publishing world vary. That's why it's important to know what's standard in the particular area you're examining. You'll find major differences between academic journals and mass-market magazines, just for example.
 

Richard White

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My only comment is: It's really bad form to set up strawmen just so you can knock them down.

Unless you know how (or if) the editors are getting paid - or any staffers, for that matter - any speculation on that matter is just that -

Speculation.

Priceless, I'm really surprised you'd resort to strawmen to make your arguments.
 

triceretops

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<H3 class=title>Planet Janitor: Custodian of the Stars (Illustrated) (Engage SF) by Chris Stevenson, Andrew Wilmot and Toni Zhang (Jan 1, 2011) </H3>

Word Wars [Paperback]

Chris Stevenson (Author), Laurie Sadowski (Editor), Cover Design by Justin Morgan (Illustrator)

Without pointing fingers at any publisher, the above examples (my case) are where I suspect that the editors and artists were royalty-paid. You can see how confusing the first example is, because it looks like I had two co-authors, which wasn't the case. In that case, it looks like editor and artist are directly sharing by-line credit with me.

In the second example, at least its spelled out who the editor and artist is. Would you see these multiple contributor by-lines with a professional flat-fee editor and artist? I'm not sure. But it's always confused me, since I don't often see everybody under the sun sharing, or included, in the by-line.

Tri:Shrug:
 

Stacia Kane

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Chris, with all due respect I think that's an issue of publisher policy/giving incorrect or too much info to Amazon, rather than how editors are paid.

I've been edited by royalty-paid editors and it was fine, and their names do NOT appear on my books. (ETA: And if they did, you bet I'd be speaking to the publisher immediately.)
 

veinglory

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I have seen editors and illustrator listed this way before and it seems to be because the publisher had their fields set up wrong, not a deliberate act.
 

Little Red Barn

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I agree...strawmen is tacky. And that's about all I can say.
I can say a lot. But I'll save that for Behler's thread, and instead use this thread to wish all our dear AW'rs who have books with Musa, as well as you, mscelina, the very very best.

/
 

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[
Without pointing fingers at any publisher, the above examples (my case) are where I suspect that the editors and artists were royalty-paid.

That's a problem with the metadata; you can describe people as dc:creator or dc:contributor.

Depending on the cataloging system used--and the database used by a vendor--they may read all dc: tags as the same.

It's tricky with ebooks because each of the ebook file formats (mobi/kindle, ibook epub, Adobe ePUB, etc.) interprets the tags differently.

I know, having lost roughly one third of my hair in the last week trying to get it right.

I note, for the geeks among us, not one of the vendors (Amazon, Apple, etc. etc.) follows the instructions of the people who created the standard.

Which is as much as to say--I think we need not read the entrails of the chicken while it's alive and well.
 

ckriffle

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Two cents from a NooB

Greetings all. I have been lurking in this Musa Publishing thread for sometime now. In spite of worries presented about possible overload and decline, about nineteen days ago, I submitted my steampunk short story to Musa Pub. based on Ms. Summer's frank responses to AW reader and editor concerns. From what I've seen, lots of publishing companies do not provide in house editors, and many have truly sketchy, confusing, and contradictory contracts and fees. As a NooB, it was refreshing to find Musa Pub.. Whether they accept me (here's hoping they do!) or not, I'd still be inclined to try it with Musa Pub. again because their openness sure beats the pile of scammy sites through which I waded. Just my two cents.
 
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Greetings all. I have been lurking in this Musa Publishing thread for sometime now. In spite of worries presented about possible overload and decline, about nineteen days ago, I submitted my steampunk short story to Musa Pub. based on Ms. Summer's frank responses to AW reader and editor concerns. From what I've seen, lots of publishing companies do not provide in house editors, and many have truly sketchy, confusing, and contradictory contracts and fees. As a NooB, it was refreshing to find Musa Pub.. Whether they accept me (here's hoping they do!) or not, I'd still be inclined to try it with Musa Pub. again because their openness sure beats the pile of scammy sites through which I waded. Just my two cents.

I agree.

I have hesitations about some of the business decisions, but I have no doubt about the good intentions and honesty of the company leadership, and that puts Musa well above a lot of other publishers out there!
 

Amadan

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I agree.

I have hesitations about some of the business decisions, but I have no doubt about the good intentions and honesty of the company leadership, and that puts Musa well above a lot of other publishers out there!


I don't think anyone questions their honesty and intentions. Unfortunately, the landscape is littered with businesses run on good intentions. It may give you a warm fuzzy to know that the people you are submitting your story to really care, but I'd feel warmer fuzzies being confident my book will be in print and on shelves.

The willingness of eager aspiring authors to throw their lot in with anyone who might print their book is why there are so many publishing companies and so few good ones. Here in this thread you have industry veterans who like all the people involved in Musa and yet are saying "Warning! Warning! Big red flags!" And yet the response is, "Well, I don't care, they just seem like nice folks and I really, really, really, really, really want someone to publish my book!" Sigh.
 

sheadakota

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I don't think anyone questions their honesty and intentions. Unfortunately, the landscape is littered with businesses run on good intentions. It may give you a warm fuzzy to know that the people you are submitting your story to really care, but I'd feel warmer fuzzies being confident my book will be in print and on shelves.

The willingness of eager aspiring authors to throw their lot in with anyone who might print their book is why there are so many publishing companies and so few good ones. Here in this thread you have industry veterans who like all the people involved in Musa and yet are saying "Warning! Warning! Big red flags!" And yet the response is, "Well, I don't care, they just seem like nice folks and I really, really, really, really, really want someone to publish my book!" Sigh.
I don't want to turn this into a high school level squabble but you just insulted every author who has a book with Musa- myself included. You imply that they accept any dribble submitted to them and that my work has no worth- I did not go with them because I really (X5) wanted my book published. I am not new to this game. I went with them fully aware of the up and down side of doing so. I have my reasons for going woth them as apposed to traditional publishing that I will not go into here. I undersstand they may not make it- I understand my book will probably not go to print. Yes I get that have taken on a lot and I knew this before I subbed.
Please do not paint MUSA and its authors with such a wide all encompassing brush. We are not all first time pubbed authors ( I have five books published with another publisher) We are not all desperate just to see our book out there. Not trying to start a fight here- this is simply another POV.I rarely reply to others posts in such a manner but I coud not let this one go.
 

Amadan

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I don't want to turn this into a high school level squabble but you just insulted every author who has a book with Musa- myself included. You imply that they accept any dribble submitted to them and that my work has no worth-

I implied no such thing. From the opinions of many other editors and authors who have posted here, I think the people running Musa are professionals and serious about their business. But the best will in the world, and plenty of experience, doesn't mean the company is a good place to submit to. I am certainly not wishing them failure, and I hope you have a good experience with them.

I was responding, though, to comments along the lines of "Who cares if their business plan is iffy and we have no idea if they will stay afloat, they're nice people!" I see the same level of eager naivete from those posts as from the people who have to be gently talked out of signing on with Publish America. (And no, I am not comparing Musa to Publish America. I am saying that authors eager to be published often show little judgment.)
 

kaitie

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I think for a new company start-up, they have exactly what we would generally suggest before a person submits, large, experienced staff, capital, good contracts and pay structures, and so on.

The usual red flags that we warn people away from don't apply here. That doesn't mean that it isn't always a good idea to wait a year or two before submitting to a new publisher, but as new publishers go, this is one of two really good ones that are doing it right from the start that I've seen since I started lurking in these threads. That says a lot.

The author above wasn't just saying "they want to publish my book so I'll go with them even if there are potential warning signs." What he said was that compared to the other really crappy epublishers he'd come across, this was one that appeared to be doing it right and so he was willing to give them a try.

Many authors on this site who know good and well how to avoid the shoddy publishers are submitting to Musa not because they just want to be published, but because they recognize experience and believe that this company, unlike most others, is worth taking a risk on.

Now, we might find that they've bitten off more than they can chew, but we might also find that they do amazingly and take off and in a few years are considered one of the best epublishers to submit to.

This isn't quite the same as people who send their work to publishers just because they're excited or naive or what not, Amadan. It's a calculated risk. Perhaps it's not a risk you would be willing to take, but it strikes me as a more worthwhile risk than most other epublishers out there.

I actually think, if anything, that you're seeing a lot of intelligent, well-researched individuals going here simply because, as mentioned above, it's refreshing to see a new company that doesn't have all of those normal red flags.
 

MarieSalvros

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I think for a new company start-up, they have exactly what we would generally suggest before a person submits, large, experienced staff, capital, good contracts and pay structures, and so on.

Do you know something the rest of us dont? Their about us page has four of their apprently 50+ staff listed and have you read the descriptions?

so and so worked as a (insert title) for another publishing hosue. and this person worked as (blank) for another publishing house. It sounds like they're purposly not telling people where they used to work becuase it's not impressive. Was the art director an art director for harper collins? or is "another publishing hosue" the name of a publishing house?

I'm sary but 400 + titles in less than a year seems to equal book mill, does it not? They can't be rejecting all that much.
 

Erin

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Do you know something the rest of us dont? Their about us page has four of their apprently 50+ staff listed and have you read the descriptions?

so and so worked as a (insert title) for another publishing hosue. and this person worked as (blank) for another publishing house. It sounds like they're purposly not telling people where they used to work becuase it's not impressive. Was the art director an art director for harper collins? or is "another publishing hosue" the name of a publishing house?

I'm sary but 400 + titles in less than a year seems to equal book mill, does it not? They can't be rejecting all that much.

It's no secret where they worked. Read thru this thread and you'll learn who they are, where they came from and how they started Musa. The experience is there.
 

MarieSalvros

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It's no secret where they worked. Read thru this thread and you'll learn who they are, where they came from and how they started Musa. The experience is there.

So authors need to go to musa and then somehow know to come here to find out the req. info?
 

kaitie

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I'm referring to the fact that several of the people who founded Musa came from another publisher and gained experience from that. We know that they have a staff rather than being a one or two man show (granted, I don't know the experience of all of them, but the founders are the ones I'm referring to and they're certainly more experienced than most start-ups). I've based my information on what was described initially. And compared to most start-ups I stand by the idea that these guys sound a thousand times better, especially when you've read most of the threads in this section.

400 titles is a lot. I'm not negating that. I don't know how many of those are "rescued" books and how many are new. I'm not saying that this isn't a cause for concern because it is. What I'm arguing is Amadan's statement that authors are essentially naive and disregard any red flags just to have their books published.

What's more, the 400 books thing is a recent development, and most of these authors signed contracts earlier on. It doesn't mean that this is necessarily a good idea (as I said before, general advice of wait awhile should always apply to a new publisher), but that the excitement about this company by authors who know enough to have a clue is based around the fact that they didn't have the same red flags to begin with. And I can understand how the authors would be offended by being tossed into a group of naive people who don't know what they're doing and who are too excited to be published to pay attention to red flags. If you read the first few pages of this thread, you'll understand the sentiment.

In a few months when we start to see what kind of sales people have had and how editing quality holds up, etc., we'll be able to draw better conclusions.
 

Dave Hardy

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I'm sary but 400 + titles in less than a year seems to equal book mill, does it not? They can't be rejecting all that much.

That includes titles brought in from the Aurora Regency line at another house. It also includes short-stories & novellas. I'm a Musa author, and I have one each of a short novel, short story & novella under contract. So not all of Musa's output is full-bore novels.
 

MarieSalvros

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I'm not triing to be negative. I hope musa turns out to be really good. It just seemed like there was alot of cheerleading in here becasue the owner is a longstanding member of this board and I didn't think the cheering was related to anything other than, "this is a friend of mine."

good luck to all the authors I hope you come back in a year and tell us about your experience.
 

Erin

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So authors need to go to musa and then somehow know to come here to find out the req. info?

I don't mean this to be snarky, but if you were going to submit to any publisher (new or old) and had questions about them, an internet search should be a top priority. The AW Forums pretty much always come up. As for Musa, this thread is the 4th link under a Google search.

FYI...I have no stake here. I don't know the people at Musa, and I haven't submitted anything. I'm just a member of AW and use the Forums for my research and edification.
 

Amadan

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What I'm arguing is Amadan's statement that authors are essentially naive and disregard any red flags just to have their books published.


Not all authors. But you can't deny that many are.
 

kaitie

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Many are in general, yes. They are also generally not the ones who do research or read threads like this. They fall victim to scams and poor deals all the time. However, I think many of the authors here who have chosen to go with Musa have submitted because they saw a promising new company that had a lot going for it and because it didn't have the red flags. That's my point.

Making a blanket statement and one that doesn't apply to many if not most of the authors on these boards who have signed with Musa is somewhat offensive, IMO. Many of them did it with open eyes and did their homework. And again, if you read the early pages of this thread, it's easy to see why.

In this case, your characterization just doesn't apply. Even if many authors do fall into that category, when you make a statement like that about a publisher that, again, didn't have the red flags we usually see, you're comparing apples to oranges.
 

Amadan

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In this case, your characterization just doesn't apply. Even if many authors do fall into that category, when you make a statement like that about a publisher that, again, didn't have the red flags we usually see, you're comparing apples to oranges.

I have seen posts in this thread that struck me exactly as I characterized them. I do not mean every Musa author.