Literary Fiction.

third person said:

This happens anytime, any place a bunch of artists and creators are crammed in a space together. Ask one innocent little question about their particular craft and there'll be blood drawn before long.

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So if I had written something derogatory about genre fiction, I wouldn't have been hung drawn and quartered then?

For some reason it seems to be acceptable to sling mud at literary fiction, but not genre. Snobbery raises its ugly head yet again.

Here's a list of (Lit Fic-heavy) Booker Prize winners, along with sales and revenue.

scarletpeaches said:

Please, please, please, stop this wanky notion that literary books are obscure, pompous and hard to read. I'd take Kazuo Ishiguro over Stephenie Fucking Meyer any day. Because I like to be obscure and show off? No. Because I don't like books to insult my intelligence.

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I think I love you.

gothicangel said:

So if I had written something derogatory about genre fiction, I wouldn't have been hung drawn and quartered then?

For some reason it seems to be exceptable to sling mud at literary fiction, but not genre. Snobbery raises it's ugly head yet again.

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Acceptable.

Its.

(Sorry. Couldn't help mahsef).

shaldna said:

I think I love you.

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I get that a lot.

Now show me how much, by buying my book when it's released.

Oh my God.

Essay brain again.

Nostra said:

Many have heard of it, more claim they write it...

But what is it?

I have been browsing writing forums and googled the matter many a time, but still no satisfying answer have found me!

What is literary fiction?

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... agents use teh term constantly when listing what they represent. So the term has meaning to them at least and it is good for writers to have a sense of what it means as well, particularly if their writing leans literary so they can direct their manuscripts to the proper agents. Good you posed the question as such ;-)

scarletpeaches said:

Now show me how much, by buying my book when it's released.

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I'll buy it because I'm also slightly scared of you.

Love and fear. They both work.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Literary fiction has scenes with lots of half open doors and people coming in the room to try and tell Tarquin that Simon loves him but dash it all, he has to marry Emily. And there's a war on.

Lydia Sharp said:

I think Nathan Bransford's explanation sums it up nicely.

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I like that definition. By his definition, my novel would be square in that "hybrid commercial/literary" genre. woot!

To me, literary is anything I can't get through without falling asleep.

Everything else is genre.

gothicangel said:

So if I had written something derogatory about genre fiction, I wouldn't have been hung drawn and quartered then?

For some reason it seems to be acceptable to sling mud at literary fiction, but not genre. Snobbery raises its ugly head yet again.

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To me, it looks like the mud was being slung at genre in this thread.

gothicangel said:

So if I had written something derogatory about genre fiction, I wouldn't have been hung drawn and quartered then?

For some reason it seems to be acceptable to sling mud at literary fiction, but not genre. Snobbery raises its ugly head yet again.

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Not sure what you got out of what I said, but I meant that when a bunch of people that do the same thing are in the same place and get to talking shop, they'll eventually argue about the subject.

That's the way it should be.

It's called discussion.

Shadow_Ferret said:

To me, literary is anything I can't get through without falling asleep.

Everything else is genre.




To me, it looks like the mud was being slung at genre in this thread.

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Really, because there appears to be accusations of literary being 'boring.' In which case, there appears to be a culture of restricted range of reading.

gothicangel said:

Really, because there appears to be accusations of literary being 'boring.' In which case, there appears to be a culture of restricted range of reading.

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Really. Go back and look at the first page where genre fiction is called a one-armed drummer, for one thing.

Then there's the more subtle dig, that literary is genre fiction and then some.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Really. Go back and look at the first page where genre fiction is called a one-armed drummer, for one thing.

Then there's the more subtle dig, that literary is genre fiction and then some.

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Each side of this so-called debate is going to view their side as suffering more slings and arrows than the other.

I think literary includes more than genre fiction, but more doesn't mean better. Just different. Many times, I'm not in the mood for the 'more' part.

scarletpeaches said:

Sheesh, people.

Genre - what you write about.
Literary - how you write it.

Please, please, please, stop this wanky notion that literary books are obscure, pompous and hard to read. I'd take Kazuo Ishiguro over Stephenie Fucking Meyer any day. Because I like to be obscure and show off? No. Because I don't like books to insult my intelligence.

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Libbie said:

For myself, literary tends to be more about the use of language than tight plot. There is bad literary fiction and there is bad genre fiction. But both can be wonderful and enlightening (and entertaining) as well.

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What they said.

While "literary" is genre in terms of publishing, I don't myself consider it one.

CaroGirl said:

Each side of this so-called debate is going to view their side as suffering more slings and arrows than the other.

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The problem is, however, it's all fiction.

Classifications are there to make it simpler to find something in the bookstore.

That's all.

Good writing is good writing and a good story is a good story, regardless of what section they put it in.

Shadow_Ferret said:

The problem is, however, it's all fiction.

Classifications are there to make it simpler to find something in the bookstore.

That's all.

Good writing is good writing and a good story is a good story, regardless of what section they put it in.

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Exactly.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Really. Go back and look at the first page where genre fiction is called a one-armed drummer, for one thing.

Then there's the more subtle dig, that literary is genre fiction and then some.

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Hahaha ahhh.....

I'm sorry if the drummer/singer thing was taken that way--to clear the air, I read both and enjoy both styles, especially when they're mixed. I was just making a silly analogy off of someone else's observation.

But I do think this is the single conversation that can and will go on forever here. And it's probably because no one can definitively say whether or not something is literary unless someone marketing the book says so. I personally am so confused by the genre guidelines that I don't bother to worry over it.

Experiment with language--so a genre book can't be well written?

Claim to academic merit--whose claim? On what basis can art be claimed academic over others? Because it follows old academic tradition? If so, how does academia ever evolve?

Psychological--genre books don't develop their characters psychologically? I guess I was reading a different I Am Legend than everyone else. And what about the 'psychological thriller' genre?

So what, exactly, makes something literary? I'm as confused as the poster, when it comes down to it. I place importance on language and psychology of character, so I tend to gravitate towards the title of literary, but with no clear-cut shape or parameters otherwise.

seun said:

Literary fiction has scenes with lots of half open doors and people coming in the room to try and tell Tarquin that Simon loves him but dash it all, he has to marry Emily. And there's a war on.

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In genre fiction, that would be all there was to it. You get told a story, which you might enjoy. In literary fiction, you are perhaps told that story in a way you don't expect; again, you may or may not like it. But at the end you'll probably have more to say about the literary than the genre.

Why are people so snobbish towards literary fiction? Yes,there are some bad examples (again, read On Chesil Beach) and they're more obvious because the critics go on about them. Just because people don't make a big deal out of bad genre fiction doesn't mean that literary is trying to get above its station or something. What's wrong with wanting to write a story in an interesting way?

Lydia Sharp said:

I think Nathan Bransford's explanation sums it up nicely.

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This link reminded me of a quote from Roger Ebert: American films are about situations and foreign films are about people.

Substitute "genre books" for "American films" and "literary books" for "foreign films" and it fits. But as I said in another thread on the subject, they are different tools for different jobs. Both are useful in their own ways.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Good writing is good writing and a good story is a good story, regardless of what section they put it in.

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That's a sensible thing to say, except, unfortunately, you did sling mud at literary fiction first, which weakened your position, Ferret. I was able to defend literary fiction without insulting genre fiction and writers.

There's wonderful literary fiction out there that doesn't make you fall asleep. Check them out.

I slung no mud. I made my definition of what I think literary is.

If it puts me to sleep, I call it literary.

If I enjoy it, it's not.

I never defined what books go into literary or what books don't.

You assumed something.

Granted, I did that on purpose.