Math, Guns, and Snark: SLHuang's Self-Publishing Thread

slhuang · Aug 10, 2014

onesecondglance said:
Will be really interested to follow your journey and see how you get along with this aspect!

The more I learn, the more I feel like this is one of the main things that would be a really good idea for me to address.

I've never tried writing a serial, but I'm thinking about either (1) figuring out how to do that, or (2) doing a themed anthology where I release all the stories in a row for a very low price and then release the whole thing as a longer book. (Either of these things would be in parallel to my main series, done when I run into writer's block on that or am waiting for betas or whatever.)

It's a lot to think about, because of course there are fixed costs for a release, like the cover and the time to do all the administrative stuff -- uploading, social media, etc. etc.. I'd personally rather have to worry about fewer releases, but I do think I need more. There's also the question of doing editing for a short -- the questions of (1) how my editor would charge for shorts, and (2) -- reluctantly -- the ROI on paying for editing for shorts period, considering I already have very clean prose and excellent betas.

I'm very much about production quality, as you all know, and I'm determined to keep my novels at that level, but I might be okay with releasing fun little stories for 99 cents that don't have the extreme level of investment I give to my novels. Here is where the Business/Publishing part of my self-publishing adventure starts warring with the Artistic Perfectionist side: "Just try it as an experiment!" "BUT AM I A HORRIBLE PERSON IF THEY'RE NOT QUITE AS SHINY AS THE NOVELS" "Does it matter, as long as it's a good business decision??" "BUSINESS DECISION SHMISNISS DECISION"

Any thoughts, especially as a reader/consumer? Any thoughts on shorts or serials as self-publishers? I'm aware that shorts don't tend to do as well and serials do a bit better; this would be more about trying to maximize funneling readers to my novel series,* and something I would put out next year after putting out either Book 2 or Book 3 (but I'd hafta start writing them now).

* Which I'm aware it might or might not do; it would be an experiment.

If I did a serial I might try it in the same verse but with entirely different characters or something. *knocks around ideas*...

Oh, btw, for anyone who's interested: I did a quick calculation and my sales so far are 90 percent Amazon, 10 percent B&N, and negligible at all other retailers. Just for interest's sake.

Captcha · Aug 11, 2014

I have a 3-book series that I put out with a publisher, and a bunch of self-published shorts that go with it, and I think it was a good marketing move. (And my publisher was really generous about letting me do it (my contract specified they got first refusal on my characters) AND making up a quick-and-easy cover for the shorts (the same image, different washes of colour and different title for each short) AND, I think, doing the formatting for me.

I distribute them for free through AllRomance e-books, for $.99 through Amazon.

I think it's a good system for a few reasons:

One, I already had the stuff written, mostly. (This series was my first writing, and I had no idea how to structure a novel, or even how long a novel should be. So when I went back and tried editing the story into something publishable, there was a lot of stuff I cut).

Two, the covers were free. They're not gorgeous, and I'd be pissed if they were the cover for a 'real' book, but they're serviceable. (You can see the graphics for the different cover images at http://www.allromanceebooks.com/product-sometimesyoujustknow-625269-145.html).

Three, the formatting was free. I've monkeyed around with enough stuff since then that I could do the formatting myself now, but back then, I was glad of the help!

Four, they drive traffic to my website. That's where I have the stories all listed in order, so it's a useful reference for readers. And maybe while they're there, they happen to notice the OTHER books being advertised in the sidebar? I hope...

Five? Um... I don't know. This series is definitely my best seller. (Kinda frustrating that my debut book is my most popular, but that's a whine for another thread). I think I can definitely credit the free/cheap shorts for some of that success.

Six? I get SOME income from them. Probably twenty bucks a month, from Amazon sales of these titles? It's not a lot, but considering that they're available for FREE elsewhere, it's not bad.

Things that may not apply for you:

Romance readers are voracious and seem to really like immersive reading. I tend to write Christmas "check-ins" with the characters, just seeing how they're doing THIS year, and those are pretty popular. So I don't have to worry about a plot, really... I just characterization. But I'm not sure if... what are you calling ZSG? Whatever genre it is, I don't know what the readers of that genre are looking for.

You haven't written stuff yet. Might be better to focus on the main story?

You're a perfectionist. Not a problem for me!

Who knows? That's my thoughts as an author.

As a reader?

I LOVE your characters. I want to see them doing stuff that isn't action-oriented, just character-development. Now, there's a kind of conundrum with writing 'extras' - if I was JUST reading the main stories, I'd want to understand the characters and everything just based on that. And if I was reading the extras as well as the main stories, I'd want to feel that they were worth my while, that I was reading something new and interesting that added to my understanding of the main story. So how do you do both? I'm not sure.

I assume Cas's backstory is going to be gradually uncovered through the main series of books. So you can't blow that in the extras. But are there short incidents you could show us from her past? Tantalizing hints that wouldn't give it all away but would clarify our suspicions?

Or on a lighter note, I'd love to see Cas go bowling or something, current day. She seems like a robot trying to figure out how to be human, and it would be fun to see some of her little challenges in that direction. And maybe you could make a quick mention of them in the opening of the next book, enough for book-only readers to know what happened? I don't know.

Overall, though? Yeah, people in self-publishing seem to write fast. But readers don't necessarily keep track of when the first book was written. It'd be a shame to lose whatever momentum you've built with this book, but maybe that's just reality? You'll have to do some more promo when the second book comes out, but doing that promo will hopefully win you readers for the first book as well, so it might work out?

I don't know. This was all just a lot of rambling, really. Good luck!

slhuang · Aug 11, 2014

Oh my goodness, Captcha! THIS IS THE HELPFULEST. Thank you so much!!!

Captcha said:
Things that may not apply for you:

Romance readers are voracious and seem to really like immersive reading. I tend to write Christmas "check-ins" with the characters, just seeing how they're doing THIS year, and those are pretty popular. So I don't have to worry about a plot, really... I just characterization. But I'm not sure if... what are you calling ZSG? Whatever genre it is, I don't know what the readers of that genre are looking for.

I'm not totally sure either -- but I've already had a couple of people tell me they want All the Fanfiction, so maybe that's a good sign that they'd read character pieces and the like? Which I would LOVE writing!

You haven't written stuff yet. Might be better to focus on the main story?

*whistles innocently*

There might be the equivalent of about three novels worth of scratch, backstory, and cutting-room-floor bits sitting in Google Docs right now. Whether any of those bits would make coherent shorts is another question.

I LOVE your characters. I want to see them doing stuff that isn't action-oriented, just character-development.

*blushes* *hides* :heart:

Now, there's a kind of conundrum with writing 'extras' - if I was JUST reading the main stories, I'd want to understand the characters and everything just based on that.

<snip lots of really really awesome things to think about>

What good points!!!!

And you've sparked all these ideas for me -- for instance, there are a couple of noodle incidents referred to in books 2 and 3 of things that happened between books, and they're just intended to be noodle incidents, but I could actually write them. (and....might have already written some of them

) I don't think I would have connected that I could release those this way!

Thank you so much again, Captcha -- SUCH helpful information and so many great ideas, I can't even. *gives you ALL THE REP*

Captcha · Aug 11, 2014

Oh, damn, yeah, if you've got stuff already written? I want to read it!

Depending on how long the bits are, you might not even 'publish' them in individual book format - you could just have an 'extras' section on your website. No potential for direct profit there, obviously, but a good way to maintain interest in the 'verse!

slhuang · Sep 30, 2014

UPDATEY UPDATE-NESS!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Short story!
The biggest news -- remember how I was going to try to sell short stories as part of my career . . . plan . . . thing? Well, my first one is being published next week by the new publishing arm at the Book Smugglers! WOOHOO!

And they're putting it out as its own ebook in addition to publishing it online, so I guess this makes me a hybrid author now? Wheeeeeeeeeeee!

Announcement
Cover reveal page with preorder and direct buy links (available through retailers or for free online a week from today, available now through direct buy)

lookit that cover isn't it goooooooorgeous

I shall report here on how this impacts sales of my novel.

(And the story also makes me eligible for the Campbell Award, which, I didn't think I would be -- self-published books are equally eligible with trade pubbed books for the Hugos and Nebulas, but the Campbell has stricter requirements about revenue earnings. Not that I expect to be nominated

, but I can tell people I'm eligible!)

Amazon lists
An interesting and SP-relevant note -- the story's been bopping up and down one of the top 100 lists since the preorder link came out. Specifically, this ridiculously obscure and meaningless list: Kindle Store > Kindle Short Reads > 45 minutes (22-32 pages) > Teen & Young Adult, ~~making it as high as #35~~ I made it up to #2! Bwahahaha! so far

. This totally makes me laugh because it probably only took a handful of sales to make this happen -- Zero Sum Game hit a MUCH higher overall rank and didn't hit any top 100 lists (I don't think -- I wasn't checking terribly well

). But it just goes to show that if you can pick categories effectively or your writing is in a niche, it's SUPER easy to hit a top 100 list. Hopefully that information will be useful to someone! (And oh-em-gee, I am now a top 100 Kindle author in mah kategory!!! *fans self*

)

Self vs. Commercial, for me
The experience of working with a publisher (at least, this particular publisher) instead of doing everything myself was just awesome. It felt entirely collaborative every step of the way, never ever like they were trying to take over my vision for the story, just make it the best it possibly could be. Basically it felt like working with my editor / cover designer / interior designer for Zero Sum Game, except I didn't have to go out and find those services myself, and there was able to be stronger support here in the sense that we did several editing passes and they commissioned custom art for the cover (things I can't afford to do with my self-published books). Also there was such a great sense throughout that they were very invested in and enthusiastic about the story themselves, which is making the release feel . . . less lonely, perhaps? More like a party?

And considering that I know how much work all the publishing parts take, having someone else take that over and do lots of publicizing is quite nice!

(I still really dig self-publishing and I think it was absolutely the right decision for me for my novel series. But working with the right publisher is getting a big thumbs up from me too, and I'll definitely be submitting more stuff commercially!)

Meanwhile, in novel news!

My paperback is DONE and in the proof stage and it looks amaaaaazing and I am so excited! I was HOPING to have it out to dovetail with the short but it looks like it might be a little later.
I'm mostly on track to have Book 2 out in January. Maybe a little behind.
Someone in my writing group (*cough* *cough*) has been trying to convince me to write a short story in which Rio adopts a puppy. Those of you who have read Zero Sum Game know why this is a ridiculous conceit, but I . . . may have written it anyway. I will probably self-publish it as its own short story just after or in conjunction with book 2. I have to talk to my cover designer about the possibility of doing an interchangeable cover for connected shorts, as it seems like that's happening. (I already have another one halfway done to put out between books 2 and 3. I call it my "Ladies' Day Out" story, and it's about . . . shooting things.)

Novel revenue updates:

After staying steady for quite a few months, my book has now dropped to a sale every few days. The interesting thing for me was that I didn't have the much-repeated 30- and 60-day cliffs at all -- instead I went from a few sales a day, to approximately a sale a day, to a sale every few days, in sort of a gentle curve.
Now for something embarrassing -- remember when I said I was close to breaking even? I was going fast and when I did a rough total I just added up the "total" column on the Amazon spreadsheets for all the months. But . . . it turns out that the "total" column lists each total twice. (They have rows for each market for each month, and I didn't notice that they listed a subtotal and a total for each -- y'all self-publishers probably know exactly what I'm talking about and are rolling your eyes , but I wasn't used to reading the spreadsheets and didn't notice!) So -- at 4 months I was close to halfway breaking even. Erp. (I'll go back and edit that post. Sorry for the incorrect information! *double embarrassed*) And now I'm chasing the break-even point because I'm paying for the interior design and print proof copies for Book 1 and all the production stuff for Book 2. I'd kinda been hoping to hit zero on Book 1 before doing all that, but from what I know about self-publishing I think getting another book out is the best plan, even if it puts me a little further in the red.

Future plans:

I've got promo plans brewing for the release of book 2, and another short story is going out on sub tomorrow.

Oh, and finally, fun reader email anecdote: Someone wrote to me saying they love math so had bought the book, but after paging through it a little were disappointed it doesn't have any formulas in it. They said they were hoping to enjoy the read even without the formulas, though! :roll:

Putputt · Sep 30, 2014

OMGZ HOW FUCKING EXCITING IS THAT AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!

And yes, the cover! It is the purdiest thing ever!!! *strokes the cover lovingly*

Can I start introducing you as "My friend, the Amazon Top 100 writer" yet?

slhuang · Sep 30, 2014

Putputt said:
Can I start introducing you as "My friend, the Amazon Top 100 writer" yet?

TOTALLY.

EMaree · Sep 30, 2014

I love the cover! And the blurb! It sounds amazing and I can't waaiiiittttt!

beckethm · Sep 30, 2014

Congratulations on the new story! The cover is gorgeous... and the author photo on Book Smugglers is lovely too.

I never came back to comment after reading Zero Sum Game, so let me say now that I thought it was a terrific story and I'm eagerly awaiting Book 2. I particularly appreciated the complexity of your characters. No one is wholly good or wholly bad, even the villains.

I also got my husband, who doesn't read fiction as a rule, to read Zero Sum Game. He's another one who would have liked to see formulas in the book, but he enjoyed it nonetheless, and it was great to be able to talk about a novel for once.

Fizgig · Sep 30, 2014

Whoa, I love your new cover!!

Mclesh · Oct 1, 2014

Congratulations! Love the new shiny cover! PutPutt's right. It is very purdy.

KateJJ · Oct 1, 2014

What a gorgeous cover, Lisa!

SunshineonMe · Oct 3, 2014

Love the cover! Love the success you are sharing.

Sonsofthepharaohs · Oct 3, 2014

Isa vereh purdy cover, but... another dark haired character. Hmm. I think curly blondes are under-represented in your stories. And bunnies. I would like to see you write a curly blonde character, and maybe some obscure yet humorous reference to a bunny (that doesn't get shot).

Gauntlet. Thrown.

*swishes curly blonde hair over shoulder and sashays out the door*

grayworld · Oct 4, 2014

"Oh, and finally, fun reader email anecdote: Someone wrote to me saying they love math so had bought the book, but after paging through it a little were disappointed it doesn't have any formulas in it. They said they were hoping to enjoy the read even without the formulas, though! :roll:

"

This cracked me up. Just goes to show you can't please all of the readers all of the time. As someone who failed Trig (twice!) I'll take my fiction minus the formulas, thanks. Who likes formulaic fiction anyway? (Ha!)

Best of luck on the new release, slhuang. The cover's great. So's your writing.

slhuang · Oct 16, 2014

I responded to everyone in rep, but now that I'm updating, THANK YOU AGAIN everyone for your kind words and support.

*hugs all of AW*

beckethm said:
I also got my husband, who doesn't read fiction as a rule, to read Zero Sum Game. He's another one who would have liked to see formulas in the book, but he enjoyed it nonetheless, and it was great to be able to talk about a novel for once.

Eee this is one of the greatest compliments ever! Thank you, beckethm!

Kallithrix said:
Isa vereh purdy cover, but... another dark haired character. Hmm. I think curly blondes are under-represented in your stories. And bunnies. I would like to see you write a curly blonde character, and maybe some obscure yet humorous reference to a bunny (that doesn't get shot).

Gauntlet. Thrown.

*swishes curly blonde hair over shoulder and sashays out the door*

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

So, updates! How did the short story publication affect my sales?

Well, coincidentally, just before the SS publication, right after I made the last update, my SP novel sales flatlined. Only one sale in two weeks. The publication of Hunting Monsters didn't bring sales to epic levels, but it did breathe life back in, and I had somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen novel sales during release week and since.

Now: I am about to be totally obnoxious and say I have had two pieces of very exciting news with regard to my work this week, one related to the short story and one related to the novel. BUT, since there is no ink on signature lines and I am wary of talking about in-progress things that might or might not happen, I shall only mention it vaguely now to mark the place in the timeline, so that if anything comes of it (or if nothing comes of it) people can fill in later how my journey progressed.

(Sorry, I'm the worst. You can blame the other AWers I consulted who told me to word it that way. :tongue

)

One thing I CAN say is that I have a guest post up at Stefan Raets' blog right now about why I published under Creative Commons. Whee! (Warning: There is a pikshur of me as a REAL LIVE PERSUN rather than as a mathematical pensul. Do not click if you do not wish to be disillusioned.)

Paperback, book 2, and other series updates:

I JUST got my paws on the proof copy of my PB, after UPS screwed up (twice!) and didn't deliver it. ARGH. But my goodness, it's so....so....PRETTY! In any case, it will be out SOONEST.
Book 2 is on track for a January 2015 release. The cover's in progress, the blurb's in progress, my editor has been reserved....DARE I SAY I THINK I WILL HIT MY DEADLINE.
I'm planning to do an ebook sale with the release of the paperback -- probably $2.99 for a week or two -- and then a $.99 sale of Zero Sum Game when the sequel comes out. I'll try for Bookbub and such for that too. Any advice on running sales from those who have been there is always appreciated.
I've gone ahead and commissioned my cover designer to do a generic interchangeable cover for related short stories -- it turns out she does that sort of thing all the time and had a great rate for it already set up! The first one will, indeed, be the "Rio adopts a puppy" story. RAMSHACKLE WHAT DID YOU DO TO ME.

Aaaaa thiiiiiiiings they are haaaaaaaappeningggggg!!

Now, one thing I do want to note, since we're all about truthiness here at AW: I have still not made money with my SP venture. I expect to, but especially now that I'm investing in everything for book 2, I'm chasing the break-even point. Considering I'm hitting other metrics of success, I think this is an important thing to keep noting.

JRTroughton · Oct 31, 2014

I have to say, it feels like I've been seeing Hunting Monsters all over the internet of late, including retweets from people like Aliette de Boddard.

Fantastic stuff!

Little Ming · Oct 31, 2014

Been offline for a bit, but came back specifically to say:

slhuang said:
One thing I CAN say is that I have a guest post up at Stefan Raets' blog right now about why I published under Creative Commons. Whee! (Warning: There is a pikshur of me as a REAL LIVE PERSUN rather than as a mathematical pensul. Do not click if you do not wish to be disillusioned.)

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Now my brain and my eye balls are fighting with each other! It is not possible! You will always be a writing instrument to me. If you want to be a pen or even a keyboard, I'm okay with that. But real live person? Nope, neveeeerrrr.

Oh, and I might read the article eventually after I've recovered from my shock. :tongue

slhuang said:
Now, one thing I do want to note, since we're all about truthiness here at AW: I have still not made money with my SP venture. I expect to, but especially now that I'm investing in everything for book 2, I'm chasing the break-even point. Considering I'm hitting other metrics of success, I think this is an important thing to keep noting.

You obviously don't know the definition of "truthiness", since it's about the truth your gut tells you, and not some stupid numbers.

But seriously, thank you for this. It helps others make better, informed choices about their careers.

slhuang · Oct 31, 2014

JRTroughton said:
I have to say, it feels like I've been seeing Hunting Monsters all over the internet of late, including retweets from people like Aliette de Boddard.

Fantastic stuff!

I know, I haven't been able to believe it -- it's been received incredibly well; it's like a weird sort of dream.

Thank you!!

Little Ming said:
You obviously don't know the definition of "truthiness", since it's about the truth your gut tells you, and not some stupid numbers.

Oh, right! Well, but my gut is made of numbers . . . does that count?

But seriously, thank you for this. It helps others make better, informed choices about their careers.

You're welcome!

akaria · Oct 31, 2014

I'm so incredibly happy for you! You are inspiration to the rest of us!

profen4 · Nov 1, 2014

Awesome job! So happy for you. And I have to say, both your covers rock, but that HUNTING MONSTERS cover rocks my world. Fingers crossed this is just the start of much success!

Mclesh · Nov 1, 2014

Your picture is WONDERFUL! :Hug2:

Good post! I have similar views regarding piracy. It doesn't bother me too much, and I don't equate pirated downloads to lost sales. They probably wouldn't have bought a copy anyway.

M. H. Lee · Nov 5, 2014

Just saw Zero Sum Game reviewed on Jim C. Hines blog. Congrats!!

slhuang · Nov 5, 2014

M. H. Lee said:
Just saw Zero Sum Game reviewed on Jim C. Hines blog. Congrats!!

Thank you! *blushes* Jim Hines is one of those people I just respect beyond words -- he's someone I've looked up to in the "how to be both an author and an awesome person" department since before I decided to publish. So to say I'm thrilled he liked my book would be...er, an understatement.

RedWombat · Nov 5, 2014

Awesome!!

Math, Guns, and Snark: SLHuang's Self-Publishing Thread

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Inappropriately math-oriented.

permanently suctioned to Buz's leg

Inappropriately math-oriented.

a demon for tea

It's too hot

coffee and pistols at dawn

practical experience, FTW

Still writing the ancient Egyptian tetralogy

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Inappropriately math-oriented.

It's too hot

Inappropriately math-oriented.

Runs With Scissors