Following a money trail in the 17th century (updated: correct terminology question in Post #13)

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
17
Location
Maryland, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
I'm working on a novella set in a fictional 17th century country modeled on the Republic of Venice (in-universe and in real life). A very highly-priced assassin has been hired to murder of some of the most powerful people in the country, and our heroes are trying to not only find the killer, but also his client.

Given that the killer's services come with an uber-high price tag, and he'd want to be paid in coin (and at least partially in advance), the protagonists are going to try and follow the money trail - investigate the likely suspects' finances and see if any unusually large sums of money are unaccounted for, that sort of thing. In terms of the plot, following the trail in and of itself won't solve the murder, given who the assassin's patron is (I don't want to spoil it here), but it will eliminate some possible suspects (some of whom are the most wealthy and influential figures in the country).

Any suggestions for stuff I should keep in mind when writing this part of the book, given the setting? Not in terms of writing mechanics or creating tension during this scene, but structuring the following of the money trail. (Regardless of how much of it goes into the actual story.) In the absence of electronic record keeping, how would 17th century noble houses (circa 1639, to be exact) accurately keep track of their finances, and how would one be able to make a huge payment to someone without anyone noticing the money's disappeared? (Aside from bribes of silence, having to trust certain underlings to keep their mouths shut, or burying a lot of bodies.) If that were to happen, how could such a thing be discovered?

Any interesting tricks on either end I could work in (either to conceal or reveal information), any overused cliches to avoid, any questions that should or shouldn't be asked?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:

gothicangel

Toughen up.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
7,907
Reaction score
691
Location
North of the Wall
Well, I would imagine that the master of the house would hire some kind of steward or clerk whose job it was to keep an eye on his finances (which would have been recorded in ledgers, old fashioned 'book-keeping).

It might also be worth asking these kind of questions in the MTS forum, as financial fraud/crime will have similarities even through the centuries.
 

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
17
Location
Maryland, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
Well, I would imagine that the master of the house would hire some kind of steward or clerk whose job it was to keep an eye on his finances (which would have been recorded in ledgers, old fashioned 'book-keeping).

It might also be worth asking these kind of questions in the MTS forum, as financial fraud/crime will have similarities even through the centuries.

I'll give that a shot. (I thought about posting in MTS, but I thought it was worth trying here, just in case.)

Thanks!
 

mayqueen

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
4,624
Reaction score
1,547
I think there'd be some old-fashioned book-keeping, yeah? There would definitely be one or several people in the household who managed the money. And also bank notes? Maybe you could look into Italian banking practices. Maybe there were like promissory notes and stuff? Also, I feel like it would probably be easier than to access and move huge sums of cash without anyone knowing. Or maybe not.

Sorry, I'm trying to piece together what I remember of Dunnett's Niccolo novels and some sort of subplot possibly that I remember from The Count of Monte Cristo. I know nothing about later medieval money and banking.
 

Flicka

Dull Old Person
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
1,249
Reaction score
147
Location
Far North
Website
www.theragsoftime.com
I'm working on a novella set in a fictional 17th century country modeled on the Republic of Venice (in-universe and in real life). A very highly-priced assassin has been hired to murder of some of the most powerful people in the country, and our heroes are trying to not only find the killer, but also his client.

Given that the killer's services come with an uber-high price tag, and he'd want to be paid in coin (and at least partially in advance), the protagonists are going to try and follow the money trail - investigate the likely suspects' finances and see if any unusually large sums of money are unaccounted for, that sort of thing. In terms of the plot, following the trail in and of itself won't solve the murder, given who the assassin's patron is (I don't want to spoil it here), but it will eliminate some possible suspects (some of whom are the most wealthy and influential figures in the country).

Any suggestions for stuff I should keep in mind when writing this part of the book, given the setting? Not in terms of writing mechanics or creating tension during this scene, but structuring the following of the money trail. (Regardless of how much of it goes into the actual story.) In the absence of electronic record keeping, how would 17th century noble houses (circa 1639, to be exact) accurately keep track of their finances, and how would one be able to make a huge payment to someone without anyone noticing the money's disappeared? (Aside from bribes of silence, having to trust certain underlings to keep their mouths shut, or burying a lot of bodies.) If that were to happen, how could such a thing be discovered?

Any interesting tricks on either end I could work in (either to conceal or reveal information), any overused cliches to avoid, any questions that should or shouldn't be asked?

Thanks!

I happen to be fascinated with 15th-17th century householding for the nobility, but I am better at English. However, I have read a bit about Italy in the early 16th century (tip: the book The Cardinal's Hat which is an Italian Cardinal's household and journey and stay at the French court entirely reconstructed from his book keeping).

I can tell you exactly which officers you would find in an Englishman's household in the 17th century and who might know what if you have specific questions, but it's a bit long to write down a full treatise on householding. But if you ask, I'll try to answer.

In general, I'll say this: you would have book keeping, but quite often it would be split up into different parts; one for that estate and another for that, and individual registrars for the personal expenses of every family member. There might be one for horses, one for the art shopping by that particular agent etc. No one, least of all the nobleman himself, may have a complete an accurate overview of the entire financial situation.

Take the king for example – in the 16th and 17th centuries what fell under what department at court and what was financed by the Coffers and the Privy Purse etc. was extremely chimerean. Money went in and out in a ways that no one really entirely controlled or kept track of. A lot of the time more money went out than in and somehow it all stayed afloat anyway, through borrowing and simply not paying debts – servants could go months or even years without wages if money was tight while the man at the top kept spending money on wine, women and song.

That was true even for immensely rich people. Take George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham and England's richest man in the 1620s. He was perpetually skint. He had vast estates, a suit covered in diamonds, a staggering art collection and he was always hanging on by the skin of his teeth. Depending on what you would consider a vast sum (which I doubt an assassin would require, they were fairly cheap as a rule, especially in Italy, but say a thousand pounds), the Duke could likely not have come up with it without borrowing or selling of some property.

This was why dowries were often paid by installments and not up front. Even rich people had their wealth sunk into property (a shipping venture, estates etc) and relied on annual yields that most often only barely, if at all, covered their actual living expenses. The finances of 17th century nobleman was often nothing but a very large bubble that could burst at any time. Think someone living grand on credit cards with new loans taken to pay back the old debts, constantly juggling on the knife edge on financial ruin, and you'd have a not unusual situation.

So it would be perfectly believable for even a rich man to be short on cash and have to either borrow from some professional financier or sell something (an estate, a piece of art he treasured, some fabled jewels or something) that would leave a trail that could be followed not by paper but by interviews, charming, threatening or bribing.

But again, ask away if you have specific questions. :)
 

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
17
Location
Maryland, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
Awesome stuff, Flicka! I'm still deciding how to use all this, but this is the kind of info I was looking for.

With all this in mind, given how the money trail won't actually lead to the killer, is it even worth the protagonists taking this approach? Would you as a reader think the protagonist was an idiot for not following the money trail?
 

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
2,800
Reaction score
843
Location
Connecticut
In France in the 17c finance among the monied classes (noble & non-noble alike) typically included many private debt transactions - loans and rentes (basically, annuities) between individuals/families, sometimes secured by property or linked to marriages, inheritances, etc. Interest payments made, received, unpaid, promised elsewhere in advance of receipt. Lots of contracts. LOTS of litigation. Financial relations between private individuals and the state were similarly complex (most often, the state being in arrears of payment, with its own income pledged decades in advance).

The richer/more important the household in question, the more complex the finances. It might be very difficult for even professional finance types to disentangle the accounts and to distinguish the actual money coming in, going out, and on hand from what was promised, pledged, tied up in litigation, locked up in other contracts, or wholly imaginary. (The affairs of the Grand Condé, the richest man in France after the king, were so confused after his return from exile in 1660 that it took a genius-level financier commanding a squadron of accountants & lawyers a decade to put them in order and salvage the prince from effective bankruptcy.)

The best way to hide the movement of money so that massive payments could be made without being obvious would probably be not all that dissimilar to what is done now -- through a series of interlinked transactions, contracts & loans on complicated terms, possibly via a succession of trusted or captive third parties, that ultimately funnel cash where it's wanted. It could be discovered with difficulty if someone who has access to key pieces of the documentation (like a notary) noticed a pattern and follows the paper trail, or if someone on the inside talks.
 

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
17
Location
Maryland, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
I think there'd be some old-fashioned book-keeping, yeah? There would definitely be one or several people in the household who managed the money. And also bank notes? Maybe you could look into Italian banking practices. Maybe there were like promissory notes and stuff? Also, I feel like it would probably be easier than to access and move huge sums of cash without anyone knowing. Or maybe not.

Sorry, I'm trying to piece together what I remember of Dunnett's Niccolo novels and some sort of subplot possibly that I remember from The Count of Monte Cristo. I know nothing about later medieval money and banking.

Somehow, I don't see this guy as the kind who'd accept a promissory note. ;)

I appreciate the input!
 

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
17
Location
Maryland, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
In France in the 17c finance among the monied classes (noble & non-noble alike) typically included many private debt transactions - loans and rentes (basically, annuities) between individuals/families, sometimes secured by property or linked to marriages, inheritances, etc. Interest payments made, received, unpaid, promised elsewhere in advance of receipt. Lots of contracts. LOTS of litigation. Financial relations between private individuals and the state were similarly complex (most often, the state being in arrears of payment, with its own income pledged decades in advance).

The richer/more important the household in question, the more complex the finances. It might be very difficult for even professional finance types to disentangle the accounts and to distinguish the actual money coming in, going out, and on hand from what was promised, pledged, tied up in litigation, locked up in other contracts, or wholly imaginary. (The affairs of the Grand Condé, the richest man in France after the king, were so confused after his return from exile in 1660 that it took a genius-level financier commanding a squadron of accountants & lawyers a decade to put them in order and salvage the prince from effective bankruptcy.)

The best way to hide the movement of money so that massive payments could be made without being obvious would probably be not all that dissimilar to what is done now -- through a series of interlinked transactions, contracts & loans on complicated terms, possibly via a succession of trusted or captive third parties, that ultimately funnel cash where it's wanted. It could be discovered with difficulty if someone who has access to key pieces of the documentation (like a notary) noticed a pattern and follows the paper trail, or if someone on the inside talks.

Good to know - thanks! I'm not sure if it makes it easier or harder to decide whether to pursue this particular plot thread or not, but I appreciate the information.
 

Eddyz Aquila

Noob Writers United
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
2,034
Reaction score
241
Location
Bucharest, Romania
Old-fashioned bookkeeping was the way to go, but I suggest you take a slightly different look at it, given that you've already received lots of great suggestions - the Venetians were excellent bankers, same went for the Genoese, given that the latter essentially bankrolled the Spanish crown in the 16th century in return for the South American silver.

However, the Italian bankers took notes from the Knights' Templar ways of bookkeeping, lending money and handling huge sums of golden coins that had to be transported between France/England and the Outremer. Take a look at how they managed their money and their contracts/litigation. The Templars were the first to issue certificates of deposit, so if you put 100 gold coins in their vaults in the Outremer, you could pick up your money in France.

They funneled a lot of cash, and their methods were very efficient.
 

Maxx

Got the hang of it, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
3,227
Reaction score
202
Location
Durham NC
Awesome stuff, Flicka! I'm still deciding how to use all this, but this is the kind of info I was looking for.

With all this in mind, given how the money trail won't actually lead to the killer, is it even worth the protagonists taking this approach? Would you as a reader think the protagonist was an idiot for not following the money trail?

While I was writing some undergrad papers on piracy in order to get a C in intro-economics, I looked into insurance in 16-17th century Venice. Now the thing about insurance is that it has to be out of the hands of the insured (eg nobles who still have ships and haven't given up and bought land or joined the Navy) or what's the point. So anything fishy in the insurance market would be both more easily accessed than in-house books and more objective and less subject (in the long term) to manipulation. But manipulation would be what you would look for. So your best man for tracking things in the 17th century Venice, might be an insurance agent working for pirates.
 

Ian Nathaniel Cohen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
17
Location
Maryland, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
While I was writing some undergrad papers on piracy in order to get a C in intro-economics, I looked into insurance in 16-17th century Venice. Now the thing about insurance is that it has to be out of the hands of the insured (eg nobles who still have ships and haven't given up and bought land or joined the Navy) or what's the point. So anything fishy in the insurance market would be both more easily accessed than in-house books and more objective and less subject (in the long term) to manipulation. But manipulation would be what you would look for. So your best man for tracking things in the 17th century Venice, might be an insurance agent working for pirates.

I think I can work with that.

I have some follow-up questions, related to terminology. How would the head of a prominent house - say the Montagues and Capulets from Romeo and Juliet - be addressed ("My lord," etc.), and what would their title be? (Lord, Patriarch, etc.)

Also, when the doge of, say, a Renaissance Italian city-state was being installed, if I were to want to throw a parade and ball for them, what would be the most appropriate term to use? Inaugural ball, coronation ball, that sort of thing.

Thanks again, everyone!
 

Ariella

...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
211
Reaction score
54
Location
Toronto
I think there was some discussion of both forms of address and ceremonies in Giovanni Della Casa's Galateo, which is sixteenth-century, but covers the right territory. A couple of English translations exist.
 

Maxx

Got the hang of it, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
3,227
Reaction score
202
Location
Durham NC
I think I can work with that.

I have some follow-up questions, related to terminology. How would the head of a prominent house - say the Montagues and Capulets from Romeo and Juliet - be addressed ("My lord," etc.), and what would their title be? (Lord, Patriarch, etc.)

Also, when the doge of, say, a Renaissance Italian city-state was being installed, if I were to want to throw a parade and ball for them, what would be the most appropriate term to use? Inaugural ball, coronation ball, that sort of thing.

Thanks again, everyone!

It didn't come up much in my research, but there were Holy Orders that were systematic pirates (the Knights of St. John, AKA Knights of Malta, AKA Hospitalers). The thing about such orders was that they were an honor that many nobles could not resist, ie, it was a tempting honor that carried some unexpected obligations. At that point a noble might have a conflict between his obligations to his family or house and his state or his status in a state and his obligations to a Holy Order. Indeed, I wonder why the Knights of Malta stopped their piracy. Perhaps payments from insurance consortiums were easier to get and didn't cause as much trouble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta
 
Last edited: