[Publisher] Black Rose Writing (Reagan Rothe)

Gillhoughly · Jan 19, 2010

Dawnny Baby said:
she looked on Writer's Digest for publishers that accept unagented manuscripts.

Her first mistake. I don't trust ads in Writer's Digest because they all seem to be from vanity, self, and subsidy operations. While some articles are helpful, their support comes from places that violate Yog's Law.

She sent out to ten of them, and BR was the first one to get back with her.

Early bird gets the worm.

(They responded very quickly and told her she was "exactly what they were looking for, at that time," she noted.)

Yes, an inexperienced writer with no clue as to how real publishing works, making the rookie mistake of starting at the bottom, thinking it's easier to break in that way, and worse, mistaking them for a real publisher.

At one point she brought up the term "vanity publishers," so I jumped on that and interjected, "So they're a vanity publisher?" to which she insisted, "No, they're just a small publisher."

A small reverse-vanity operation with no upfront cost to the writer--rather like PublishAmerica, where Reagan Rothe has books.

She said because Black Rose was a small house is the reason she had to do so much of the work herself, from initiating contact with different book stores (though they gave her a list to work from, and once she makes a good connection with a retailer, their people take over) to carting some of the copies around locally.

I have four books placed with a small house in my state. I have NEVER had to do any editing beyond proofing the galleys. They have an EXCELLENT editing staff, catching things that even I missed.

I have NEVER carted copies around to get shelved at bookstores. This is exactly what PA has its writers do.

Marketing and distribution are what a publisher does, not the writer. If the writer wants a signing, then the bookstore orders the books; all the publishers need do is ship them on time.

She said she feels Black Rose has been very up front with her about everything. She stressed that she has never paid any money to them for anything, and the contract she signed didn't force her to buy any copies of her book, though the publisher "strongly encourages" (her words) its authors to buy copies, themselves, at a discount.

I'm sure they have been adorable to her and send charming emails. Their market plan is still no advantage to the writer or to selling high numbers of copies.

she was only getting a $2 discount off the retail price.

I get 40% off any I purchase to sell through my website store.

I was troubled by her repeated insistence that BR was "a small publisher, NOT a vanity publisher."

The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

She's trying to reassure herself and to validate her poor choice in front of an audience that likely knows more about the business end of things than she does.

Have they changed their tune enough to qualify as not being pay-to-play?

They are no more pay to play than PublishAmerica--the costs are in the back end, and NOT to the advantage of the writer. A writer writes, she doesn't cart books from store to store burning gas and writing time trying to sell them like Fuller brushes.

But I was even more troubled to find out that her editor is, in fact, Reagan Rothe, himself. As far as I can tell, this man has no qualifications to be an editor. Perhaps I'm wrong?

He has no qualifications to be an editor.

And the kicker for me was when she gave him such glowing reviews of how she felt so comfortable with him that she could e-mail him back and forth every day,

All con artists are charming and make people feel comfortable. They couldn't take advantage of people to get what they want if they weren't. Raise your hand if you ever dated a guy who lost interest when you didn't put out. :hi:

He is not a con artist so much as sincere but clueless, looking for validation from the even more clueless, hoping to make a few bucks on the way. He probably enjoys introducing himself at parties as "a publisher" and keeps cards handy to pass around.

and then confided that he's writing another book, himself, and has asked her to review the manuscript. Isn't this a conflict of interest?

No, but it is not normal for a publishing CEO. One of my editors writes, so does my agent. Neither has ever come to me for feedback. I'd prolly give them feedback--because THEY are pros in the business. I expect they have other people to beta-read for them. What are the odds Rothe has "confided" the same thing to all the other writers at BR? He better hope they never get together to compare notes.

He's like any other newbie desperate to get free feedback from another writer. Perhaps she's a much better writer than he is, so he's going to coddle her along for as long as it takes.

Oh,yeah, a small press publisher I know also writes books. If he's ever wanted feedback, he's never come to me for it. He's got an excellent staff in place and his wife for that sort of thing.

She is a nice person who, IMO, was led down a stray path.

You nailed it. She made a poor choice and is letting a well stroked ego rule over hard-headed business sense.

Writers are running a small business, trying to sell a product. They can sell more product through an operation with solid distribution for goods than going to the garage sale down the street run by a kindly neighbor who takes a fat percentage off the top selling your own goods back to you.

it seems they've changed somewhat since this thread started, what with not making authors pay-to-play.

They found they can get more in that way. That, and insisting they're not a vanity operation. They are little better than self-publishing, but no writer with them will see significant sales unless they get proper distribution set up.

From what I've read about publishers, BR looks more like a subsidy publisher (sharing the publications costs--albeit the man-hours costs--with the author), rather than vanity (which, if my understanding is correct, gets all of its publication dollar amounts covered by the author).

You get what you pay for. Since Rothe is NOT a qualified editor by background experience or apprenticeship at any publishing house, I would take his feedback with a grain of salt. When his website first went up it was a nightmare of design, spelling, and grammar errors, and with pics of his nieces, nephews, and girlfriend for heaven's sake.

I had just witnessed the result of the blind leading the blind.

You did.

This is especially bewildering since I'm only partially-sighted myself (in this arena), just learning the ropes.

In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king. -- Desiderius Erasmus

Thank you for posting that. I was wondering how things were getting on. His operation is in my state, and better believe that I've been chatting about it with the local writers I know.

I'm pals with the head honchos of three small presses in this region and all were highly amused by BR's website, and not remotely concerned that it could be competition to them.

THEY have real distribution, significant sales, and pay their authors advances. Small to be sure, but it counts as a pro credit for the writer. A book with Black Rose does not.

.

MichaelZWilliamson · Jan 19, 2010

Likewise, I get 40-60% off cover price on books I purchase, and most major publishers will give you a box of 20 a year for promotional purposes, or for things like books for troops signings.

Dawnny Baby · Jan 19, 2010

veinglory said:
My question to the author would be "ballpark, how many books did you sell within a year of release: dozens, hundreds, or thousands?" That may be a rude question, but it is the heart of the matter.

Yeah, I really wanted to ask that, and about a dozen other questions, but I was trying to be polite. As members of this board pointed out to me (when I was in a huff that a vanity-press author had been scheduled to speak), "She is your guest, and you must be polite." They were right, and it was the right thing to do.

Dawnny Baby · Jan 19, 2010

Gillhoughly said:
Thank you for posting that. .

You're welcome.

I'm pals with the head honchos of three small presses in this region and all were highly amused by BR's website, and not remotely concerned that it could be competition to them.

THEY have real distribution, significant sales, and pay their authors advances. Small to be sure, but it counts as a pro credit for the writer. A book with Black Rose does not..

She said she's hoping if she has a couple of books (this current series) out there, it will help her land an agent or a larger publisher in the future, because it will prove she can churn out multiple manuscripts. Hopefully the fact that the publishing was done with BR won't be a strike against her.

In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king. -- Desiderius Erasmus
.

HA!

Thanks for that!

IceCreamEmpress · Jan 20, 2010

Dawnny Baby said:
She said she's hoping if she has a couple of books (this current series) out there, it will help her land an agent or a larger publisher in the future, because it will prove she can churn out multiple manuscripts. Hopefully the fact that the publishing was done with BR won't be a strike against her.

Publishing with a vanity press does nothing to enhance anyone's credentials with agents or publishers. The best she can hope for is that it won't make her look amateurish when the agents or publishers Google her.

True self-publishing, even when done very successfully by the standards of self-publishing, almost never does much. You have to go for broke--invest a substantial chunk of savings and months or years of full-time work--a la Christopher Paolini and family or E. Lynn Harris or Brunonia Barry to even get a chance at making an impact on agents and publishers, and of course the vast majority of people who do that don't have the success of Paolini, Harris, or Barry.

veinglory · Jan 20, 2010

The polite version is: 'are you happy with your sales?' A shifty look and justifications as to why they might not be so great is informative.

victoriastrauss · Jan 20, 2010

Dawnny Baby said:
She said she's hoping if she has a couple of books (this current series) out there, it will help her land an agent or a larger publisher in the future, because it will prove she can churn out multiple manuscripts.

Problem is, by tying herself to an amateur publisher with minimal marketing and distribution, she is dooming herself to small sales (probably much smaller than she'd have with a professional small press), and that will count against her way more than any apparent productivity would count for her. Sales numbers are everything in this biz.

- Victoria

Gillhoughly · Jan 20, 2010

IceCreamEmpress said:
the vast majority of people who do that don't have the success of Paolini, Harris, or Barry.

Seconded. For each person who gets noticed there will be thousands thrashing about in total obscurity.

I have a self-pubbed niche title.

Unlike most self-pubbers I have a considerable amount of pro pub works, am a known name in my genre, and have a healthy fan following.

That book's been out for well over half a year. It's sold about 350 copies from my website store.

It earned back my investment, so I'm happy. In self-pub terms it is a runaway bestseller. In pro terms, it tanked.

I sold thousands more copies in one day of my latest pro release, released about the same time.

Distribution makes all the difference. Bookstore placement makes all the difference.

You don't get real sales by calling local bookstores and begging managers to give you the chance you deserve. (Again, this is PubAmerica's method.)

I also have to point out that Paolini GOT LUCKY. First, his parents footed the bill for everything. The book slogged along on a tour of stores and schools and didn't impress anyone.

Pro novelist Carl Hiaasen happened to take his kid to a bookstore one day, not the zoo or Chuck E. Cheeses, and noticed a self-pubber trying to sell his book.

Given that situation, I'd have turned heel and walked, but the writer saw that his kid liked the book and recommended Paolini to an editor.

Without that chance happening Paolini would have either given up writing--he was ready to toss in the towel--or he'd still be a guy in a funny costume trying to sell books out the back of his car.

Unfortunately, a lot of kids who love Paolini only hear that "He was only 15, self-pubbed, and made millons! I can do that!"

Well, they can try.

victoriastrauss · Jan 20, 2010

Gillhoughly said:
I also have to point out that Paolini GOT LUCKY.

Exactly. Scratch a self-pub success story, and you'll usually find a special circumstance (an author with media connections, for instance), a stroke of luck (like Paolini's), an author who was willing to spend big bucks on promotion (like Brunonia Barry, who hired a PR firm), or someone who invested his/her life savings and devoted all his/her time to marketing and selling.

It's worth remembering that one reason self-pub success stories make news is that they're so rare.

- Victoria

Gillhoughly · Jan 20, 2010

Indeed.

And there will be thousands of other self-pubbers who spent their life savings, marketed tirelessly, and were left broke in the end.

Yog's Law rules. Keep your day job, write, sell, and keep your day job.

Momento Mori · Jan 20, 2010

Dawnny Baby:
BR was the first one to get back with her. (They responded very quickly and told her she was "exactly what they were looking for, at that time," she noted.)

Well, this was the first warning sign. Did the author wait for any of the other publishers to get back to her before signing with them or was this not asked?

Dawnny Baby:
At one point she brought up the term "vanity publishers," so I jumped on that and interjected, "So they're a vanity publisher?" to which she insisted, "No, they're just a small publisher."

If they've paid her an advance then they're a small publisher.

Dawnny Baby:
She said because Black Rose was a small house is the reason she had to do so much of the work herself, from initiating contact with different book stores (though they gave her a list to work from, and once she makes a good connection with a retailer, their people take over) to carting some of the copies around locally. She said she feels Black Rose has been very up front with her about everything.

So they've basically been through the Yellow Pages, given her a list of stores and she has to go around and do the leg work herself? That sucks. If they had proper distribution in place then she wouldn't need to do that - instead she could be sitting at home writing more books.

Dawnny Baby:
She stressed that she has never paid any money to them for anything, and the contract she signed didn't force her to buy any copies of her book, though the publisher "strongly encourages" (her words) its authors to buy copies, themselves, at a discount. (I think she said she pays $13 for a $15 book, or else it was $11 for a $13 book. I can't remember, but I am positive that she was only getting a $2 discount off the retail price.

Well even if they're only "strongly encouraging" authors to buy their own books, then that indicates that they're geared towards selling back to authors and not to stores. Another bad sign.

Did she mention if she got royalties on the copies she bought or is she reliant on selling them on for more money in order to make anything?

Dawnny Baby:
I was even more troubled to find out that her editor is, in fact, Reagan Rothe, himself. As far as I can tell, this man has no qualifications to be an editor. Perhaps I'm wrong? And the kicker for me was when she gave him such glowing reviews of how she felt so comfortable with him that she could e-mail him back and forth every day, and then confided that he's writing another book, himself, and has asked her to review the manuscript. Isn't this a conflict of interest?

Put it this way, no professional editor would ask their author to review their book.

Of course Black Rose Writing is being nice to their authors. You don't go out of your way to chafe the teats when you're milking the cow.

Dawnny Baby:
BR looks more like a subsidy publisher (sharing the publications costs--albeit the man-hours costs--with the author), rather than vanity (which, if my understanding is correct, gets all of its publication dollar amounts covered by the author).

IMO, subsidy publishing is just a weasel word for vanity publishing. How do you know how much money the publisher is putting into your work? Do they account for it? Most don't and if they're already got the set up to put something into print, then it's difficult to see what you're getting for however much you're paying in "subsidy".

Dawnny Baby:
She said she's hoping if she has a couple of books (this current series) out there, it will help her land an agent or a larger publisher in the future, because it will prove she can churn out multiple manuscripts.

Churning manuscripts won't help her to get an agent. It's the quality that matters, not the quantity. Unless she can prove that her published books have sold in the thousands, no one will be interested in taking her on.

That said, no one will discriminate against the fact that she's gone with a vanity outfit, provided she's not trying to use the same as a professional credit on her query letters.

MM

Dawnny Baby · Jan 20, 2010

Momento Mori said:
Well, this was the first warning sign. Did the author wait for any of the other publishers to get back to her before signing with them or was this not asked?

Not asked. Trying to be polite.

Momento Mori said:
If they've paid her an advance then they're a small publisher.
Did she mention if she got royalties on the copies she bought or is she reliant on selling them on for more money in order to make anything?

Again, not asked. She genuinely thinks she's with a regular, small publisher, and I couldn't have asked about royalties, advances, etc. w/o sounding hostile.

Momento Mori said:
Of course Black Rose Writing is being nice to their authors. You don't go out of your way to chafe the teats when you're milking the cow.

Aaaah! Farm imagery!

IceCreamEmpress · Jan 21, 2010

victoriastrauss said:
Exactly. Scratch a self-pub success story, and you'll usually find a special circumstance (an author with media connections, for instance), a stroke of luck (like Paolini's), an author who was willing to spend big bucks on promotion (like Brunonia Barry, who hired a PR firm), or someone who invested his/her life savings and devoted all his/her time to marketing and selling.

Yes, well put. And the thing is, as Gillhoughly so wisely points out, even that group--the people who have the appropriate connections and skill sets, and who invest their life savings and months or years--have to get lucky.

The Paolinis are a great example of that--they were printers, they had lots of connections, they invested a big chunk of their life savings and two years of the whole family's time, AND the thing that actually made the difference was sheer luck.

If someone doesn't have the skill sets, connections, money, or time, and they're just relying on the "luck" part, they'd be better off buying lottery tickets, in my view.

Self-publishing is a great way to get a niche book to a niche audience. It's a much harder way to break into commercial publishing than the usual query process.

JephC · Jan 27, 2010

An update

Here's the latest updates from Black Rose with my work...
While I know BR isn't a traditional small publisher, I also don't think they qualify as a vanity publisher. I do believe they're trying to escape the vanity label...inexperience is holding them back slightly, but they're trying and making strides.

As for distribution, etc., Black Rose has been listening to my suggestions and questions as far as bookstores go. My book is trade sized, and $14.95 American ($16.95 Canadian) which isn't an exorbitant amount. And despite what their site says (if you buy 50 books or more, you receive a 25% discount, and 49 or less is 15 %), when I did buy a small package of 10 extra copies, I was still given the 25% off, roughly $4.00 a book. (PS. it was the manager of a Chapters' bookstore who asked me to bring some in until they got their shipment of regularly ordered stock..it wasn't a request from Black Rose. Black Rose also helped cover the shipping and had the books sent express so they would arrive in time for the Christmas rush.)

While they may be inexperienced, they've shown a willingness and desire to continue their improvement. On my suggestions, and when I gave them contact information, they contacted Chapters (Basically to Canada what Barnes & Noble is to the USA) and the buyers in the company were satisfied enough that BR wasn't a vanity company (Chapters does not like working with Vanity press publishers for obvious reasons). My novel was accepted into their regular SAP order system, and is now on many bookstore shelves, availale nationwide, without me needing to bring them around on consignment. Rather, they are brought in through Ingram Press, without any cost to me. I have more than made back any investment I originally made, and I have never once been asked to buy any further books. And I was also assured that any returns from this arrangement do not come out of my pocket, and that they would never ask me to pitch in to recoup any losses. Essentially, they're taking the risk of it now on themselves...if it doesn't sell, all the books they've printed can be fully returned, at no charge to me whatsoever.

As well, one other positive note. About the free copies...while I was only given a few free copies with my order, BR has been more than willing to provide promotional copies for free when asked. I was given a few copies for Chapters, and I have had them send several copies to schools that have requested it for their library. In each case, I was asked to get the school's contact information, and they dealt with it. So far, each librarian that has been in contact with them has indeed received 1-2 copies for their shelves at no cost and within a reasonable time frame. And I've never been asked for a penny towards those copies.

Please don't get me wrong; I know I've worked harder than I probably would likely have to with another company in order to make much of this happen, but BR has been beside me learning with each step. While they may not be the prime choice for many, or the most experienced, gathering from what I've read in much, much earlier posts, and comparing that to my experiences, they are getting better and working at escaping the vanity label.

As for Reagan's manuscript, he never asked for an edit, but for some of the author's within Black Rose's label for a review.

At my first signing with a Chapters location, I sold 12 copies in my two hours there, selling all of the stock the store had requested. I now have stores beginning to order in more copies as well to prepare for further signings, my next one being this weekend, again at a major Chapters location.

It may not be perfect, but it's a start.

Once again, as always, thank you as well to everyone who is so eager and willing to share their experiences and advice on here, positive and negative.

JephC · Jan 27, 2010

I feel I should also mention that during the process of having my novel accepted into the Chapters system, I asked a few times what I should do to help increase the chances of successfully making this happen. I was impatient at first, because it didn't seem they were working at it.
Reagan assured me that there was nothing further I needed to do, that they had made contact. Then I received an email from a Chapters manager saying he suddenly noticed my book had been made available for stores to order as regular stock rather than consignment. So whatever Black Rose did, it worked...the only work I did was getting them a few names and numbers, which took me all of two minutes of my time while I visited one of the store locations.

JephC · Jan 28, 2010

Also...please note...I'm not encouraging anyone to blindly walk into a contract with Black Rose, or any other company. Please, all authors, heed the valuable advice you read from experienced writers on forums such as AW. I've made good strides so far, and Black Rose as been better than I expected, and I'm certainly not dissatified, but make sure you research and think a little to make sure it's the direction you want to go.

Momento Mori · Jan 28, 2010

JephC:
While I know BR isn't a traditional small publisher, I also don't think they qualify as a vanity publisher. I do believe they're trying to escape the vanity label...inexperience is holding them back slightly, but they're trying and making strides.

The problem I have with Black Rose is precisely that they are inexperienced, which means that their authors are the guinea pigs.

JephC:
And despite what their site says (if you buy 50 books or more, you receive a 25% discount, and 49 or less is 15 %), when I did buy a small package of 10 extra copies, I was still given the 25% off, roughly $4.00 a book.

Do you get royalties on copies that you've bought yourself? If not, did you sell the books at more than the cover price?

JephC:
On my suggestions, and when I gave them contact information, they contacted Chapters (Basically to Canada what Barnes & Noble is to the USA) and the buyers in the company were satisfied enough that BR wasn't a vanity company (Chapters does not like working with Vanity press publishers for obvious reasons).

Why is it that you have to make the suggestion to them in the first place to contact a large Canadian book chain? Why is BR accepting Canadian authors, when it hasn't gone out to get the distribution in place in Canadian stores?

As regards Chapters deciding that BR is not a vanity press, I suspect that it's more a case of their wanting to be certain that ordered books will be delivered and given that BR state they've got an agreement with Ingrams, I suspect that was sufficient comfort. Book stores are not in the process of making a decision as to whether or not a publisher is a vanity or self publisher, they want to know that orders will be met.

JephC:
My novel was accepted into their regular SAP order system, and is now on many bookstore shelves, availale nationwide, without me needing to bring them around on consignment.

I'm a little surprised at this, given that BR is, by its own admission, a POD operation.

Do you know how many Canadian stores have actually ordered your book?

Best of luck to you for your book.

MM

IceCreamEmpress · Jan 28, 2010

JephC said:
Please don't get me wrong; I know I've worked harder than I probably would likely have to with another company

You would have had to do exactly none of this with an established small press, let alone with a large commercial publisher.

The time you have spent doing Black Rose's work for them could have been spent doing your work. Every minute of it.

I don't have time to teach my publishers how to do their jobs, and I would suggest that few people do.

I applaud you for making the best of a difficult situation, but I would also encourage people reading this thread to note the amount of hard work you've had to put in on stuff that experienced publishers take care of as a matter of course.

Gillhoughly · Jan 28, 2010

I also don't think they qualify as a vanity publisher. ---- I have more than made back any investment I originally made,

But they're NOT a vanity op? Sorry, not buying it.

I do believe they're trying to escape the vanity label...

So are a lot of other vanity operations; they started calling it "subsidy" publishing. He may not charge you for stuff, but he is selling books to you. This is a cleaned up version of PublishAmerica--which isn't saying much.

The fact stands that a POD operation of any size cannot provide mega-volumes of copies as demanded by distribution to ALL the major bookstore venues. There is a tipping point where a mass market PB or trade PB is cheaper to produce, and you achieve that by distribution and publisher promotion to the chain store buyers.

I'm glad you've made a hit with a Chapters, but what about B&N, Borders, Waldens, Books-a-Million and the indie stores across the US and Canada?

A writer shouldn't have to do all that work. It's the publisher's job. Again, they're taking much of their marketing plan from PublishAmerica.

inexperience is holding them back slightly, but they're trying and making strides.

Inexperience IS the point here. I have tons more publishing/editing experience than the guy running BR, but no way am I going to start up my own operation. It would not be fair to the writers.

What's been said. The time you spend running around doing the publisher's work could better be used writing another book.

Next time sub to the biggest dog on publisher's row. In publishing you always start at the top and work your way down. BR is as close to the bottom as you can get and still be in print.

If a big house (or even a small one!) accepts your work, please do compare your sales numbers and income with them to what BR is dribbling out.

JephC · Jan 28, 2010

I paid around 11 dollars US per book that I brought in for myself, and the cover price is 15 dollars. I didn't charge anything more than the cover price...in fact, the personal copies I sold I also left tax off, and still made more on those copies than I paid by a fair chunk.
I'm not sure exactly how many stores have brought it in yet; it would be an interesting thing to find out, though. But the book has sold triple the amount of copies that I personally picked up through Chapters, Amazon, etc. And it's sold to people as close as my home city, as far as New York, Australia, and New Zealand. I know a few Indie bookstores have brought in copies as well. As I get more information, I'll be sure to post again. The book was released in October, and I'm in triple digits in sales. Not a hit, by any means, but its doing better than I expected. It's only been on Chapters shelves since the end of December, as well, so it hasn't been quite long enough for me to really see what that exposure will do.

I do plan on making the best of this limited experience, and will do what I can to ensure that. I also understand that until I see a significant rise in numbers, I won't count it as a professional credit, but it's doing better under BR than I had expected.

And again, I'm also not encouraging people to follow this route necessarily. Yes, I've done more work than probably would have been necessary under a different press, but I haven't done as much as some seem to think. I do have other novels, for which I will continue to seek agent representation, as that is my ultimate goal.

I'll just keep plugging away and see what happens!

Gillhoughly · Jan 28, 2010

Triple digits are a runaway bestseller for a vanity or self-pub title with little to no distribution. (But a dismal failure for a larger press.)

BR is lucky to have you. If your numbers are that high, then you certainly should shop the next book to a larger house. The sales numbers with a house like BR won't impress an editor unless they're in the mid-four figure range.

Count it as experience, but nothing more.

BR is NOT giving you a great discount, since it costs them 3-5$ to print a book. They are taking a chunk of change out of the middle from you.

Most writers purchasing copies to sell themselves get a 40% discount off the cover or the wholesale price, same as a bookstore. If the stores are only getting 2 bucks off your cover price, then it's not worth their time to carry BR books. It costs more than 2$ for an employee to put through the paperwork and shelve them.

That's why PA books are not welcome in stores, they only offer a 5% off cover price discount.

You need to get a DBA tax number, BTW, or the Canadian equivalent if you continue to sell from your website or at store signings. The DBA allows you (or should) to get a royalty from each batch you personally buy from BR.

I sell signed books through my website store. I order from my publisher through my business name with the tax number, and those are counted as royalty sales.

I've never had to bring my own copies to a signing. The bookstores make no profit from those. I think the store wanted to see if this was another PubAmerica type operation.

Good luck finding a larger, better venue on the next one!

JephC · Jan 28, 2010

Thanks...for my next signing, this weekend, I won't be providing any copies...the store has already ordered and received the copies from BR, (more specifically Ingram) which is nice...this will strictly be promoting their purchased and shelved copies...I was only forced to do one brief consignment effort, thankfully, and will not need to again with this novel, or hopefully any other. None of the books at my next signings will have come from buying personally from BR, but from the bookstores' ordered stock, purchased through BR and not myself, which will be nice, to be sure. Other stores in my area have also ordered more stock now to make sure there are books on hand when I come in.

As for the discount to the store from BR, they are actually giving Chapters a 40% discount off of the cover price as well, part of why Chapters was willing to take it.

Thank you again for the advice...I know many have seen it as harsh, and often it is, particularly from yourself, but when you read between the lines, its clear you're trying to help look out for newer authors, such as myself, and keep us clear-headed here. I've quite enjoyed the learning experiences from this site.

I'll certainly look into the Canadian equivalent of the DBA, though I'm hoping to not need to purchase personally from BR anymore. More knowledge of the industry is always better.

JephC · Jan 28, 2010

I've also received great advice on query letters from this site...which I do plan on submitting to agents for future novels, including two that are nearing completion...for any new authors reading this forum, I do encourage you to use this site to your advantage and check out the section on writing decent queries...I know my writing is good, and constantly improving, but my queries were certainly lacking, and I'm very glad I checked it out here with some people kind enough to look through it with constructive honesty.

victoriastrauss · Jan 28, 2010

Jeph, your pleasant, informative, and cordial responses to the tough questioning you've received here is really refreshing and greatly appreciated. I share the general opinion of your publisher, I'm afraid, but I'm very impressed by you.

- Victoria

Gillhoughly · Jan 28, 2010

I know many have seen it as harsh,

The same harsh I dish out when I see a kid walking in front of a bus.

OTOH, I just like a good donnybrook--especially when it involves anyone trying to take advantage of new writers.

Keep slugging for yourself!

When the English get together, they have tea;
when the Scots get together, they play games;
when the Welsh get together, they sing;
and when the Irish get together, they fight.
-- James "Scotty" Doohan, at a long ago Star Trek convention.

[Publisher] Black Rose Writing (Reagan Rothe)

Grumpy writer and editor

Combat Word Hacker

Getting back up again

Getting back up again

Hapless Virago

volitare nequeo

Writer Beware Goddess

Grumpy writer and editor

Writer Beware Goddess

Grumpy writer and editor

Tired and Disillusioned

Getting back up again

Hapless Virago

Everyday I'm shuffling...pages...

Everyday I'm shuffling...pages...

Everyday I'm shuffling...pages...

Tired and Disillusioned

Hapless Virago

Grumpy writer and editor

Everyday I'm shuffling...pages...

Grumpy writer and editor

Everyday I'm shuffling...pages...

Everyday I'm shuffling...pages...

Writer Beware Goddess

Grumpy writer and editor