[Publisher] Black Rose Writing (Reagan Rothe)

JephC said:

And one other question...what's the requisites necessary to get a listing on writer's market as a publisher?

Click to expand...

Filling out a form!

JephC said:

After reading through some of the PublishAmerica posts, I was curious about contract lengths. The original contract I was offered from Black Rose was for three years. With no hesitation, Black Rose dropped it down to two years at my request.

Click to expand...

Well, that's mighty nice of them but the boilerplate on all my contracts has no time limit like that.

They keep my book in print for as long as it sells. If sales drop below a certain point, then the book is officially out of print, and about 6 months later the print rights automatically revert to me, unless we renegotiate for a new edition. (Which we have at times.)

Some books I sold to a publisher in 1988 are still in print and I still get royalties from them.

Others that went out of print? My agent resold them to another publisher. Ker-ching!

One question:

I do have one question, actually, not Black Rose related, however.
I had an agent for one of my novels about a year and a half ago, but the agency was forced to close down. It was a relatively new agency, and I did learn a good deal from it.
I've been trying to figure out, however, if it's worth mentioning I had an agent in query letters. I have a few published short stories as well, and definitely use those as selling points for my credibility as a writer. Does mentioning a former agency that closed down help, or is it more likely to hurt? Should I even bother with that?

Probably not worth mentioning. If it was a new agency started by inexperienced people mentioning it could hurt you more than it could help.

Mention your published work and that's it. Potential agents are more interested in what you've sold.

JephC, do you know if your former agent sent the book out to publishers? That's something your new agent is going to want to know about, because it changes the way she can query your book.

She did, actually. I nearly landed a deal with Puffin and received some great feedback, actually.

I just submitted my manuscript to Black Rose. I think I'll wait and see if they are the real deal.

Well

KBRIDGES said:

I just submitted my manuscript to Black Rose. I think I'll wait and see if they are the real deal.

Click to expand...

Good~luck, I wish you well and much success.

thanx

I will say one thing...I just received my proof copy of my book, published through Black Rose, and it looks even better than I had anticipated. I wasn't quite sure what to expect, and I know it's not putting it on the selves, but it is exceptionally well put together and looks very attractive and professional, which should hopefully help put it on the shelves.
So for appearance and printing wise, I'm very happy...we'll see how my two year contract plays out. Hoping for the best, expecting to put my share of work in, and see what happens.

The latest on Black Rose Writing: As part of the submission process, at least some authors are asked how many copies of their book they plan to order. 60 or more (at a paltry 25% discount) is the number suggested. Authors are told that although a commitment to pre-order "has no reflection on the basis for our final decision" on whether to publish, company data shows that "authors who have many copies in hand tend to do much better at generating leads and making sales, which allows us to open up our budget even more to publicize and promote."

How's that for bait-and-switch?

- Victoria

Now I'm imagining PA as the Emperor in Star Wars saying, "I have taught you well, young padawan..."

victoriastrauss said:

The latest on Black Rose Writing: As part of the submission process, at least some authors are asked how many copies of their book they plan to order. 60 or more (at a paltry 25% discount) is the number suggested. Authors are told that although a commitment to pre-order "has no reflection on the basis for our final decision" on whether to publish, company data shows that "authors who have many copies in hand tend to do much better at generating leads and making sales, which allows us to open up our budget even more to publicize and promote."

How's that for bait-and-switch?

- Victoria

Click to expand...

Not good, thanks for the alert.

I'm a little confused. On P&E they say they are a vanity press, but on their website they say they offer royalties. So are they a vanity? I don't believe in paying a publisher. I submitted a query to them before I found this thread and they want the full. Now I'm wondering if I should even send it, now that I've read the thread for its entirety. My husband says I should send it anyway because I can always turn it down, but I wanted you guy's opinion. So far, no one's steered me wrong.

I actually encountered Reagan Rothe in the AOL author's chatroom some years ago. I warned him about PublishAmerica at the time. (Apparently it did no good, since he went on to publish with them.)

Even at that time he was soliciting writers to send him their books, promising them the Moon and the Sun and the NYT bestseller list to boot if they published with his fledgling company. From chatting with him, it was obvious he knew nothing about publishing, and less about editing or marketing books.

This was some years ago, of course. But nothing that I've read here on AW has been encouraging regarding Mr. Rothe's learning curve.

My opinion? I wouldn't send him anything I wrote.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

AC Crispin said:

I actually encountered Reagan Rothe in the AOL author's chatroom some years ago. I warned him about PublishAmerica at the time. (Apparently it did no good, since he went on to publish with them.)

Even at that time he was soliciting writers to send him their books, promising them the Moon and the Sun and the NYT bestseller list to boot if they published with his fledgling company. From chatting with him, it was obvious he knew nothing about publishing, and less about editing or marketing books.

This was some years ago, of course. But nothing that I've read here on AW has been encouraging regarding Mr. Rothe's learning curve.

My opinion? I wouldn't send him anything I wrote.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

Click to expand...

Thanks. I will stay clear then. I'd rather never be published then be published badly.

Yeah, I just found that out. A friend of mine showed me the contract. They require you to buy 50 books before they publish you. Wow!! Def. won't be sending them my manuscript. Thanks guys for all your help. Once again, you've saved a newbie from making a mistake.

jsouders said:

I'm a little confused. On P&E they say they are a vanity press, but on their website they say they offer royalties. So are they a vanity?

Click to expand...

PublishAmerica pays royalties too, so I wouldn't take that as a sign of commercial publication. If a publisher has made hundreds of dollars from an author, cutting the author a thirty-dollar check as "royalties" to keep them happy (and blur the line between vanity press and commercial publisher) is a bargain.

Hard enough without added problems

Well, this is annoying. I actually met one author from Publish America. He was doing a book signing at the local bookstore in Elizabeth city, NC. Strangely enough, he was doing exactly what Roth is doing - recruiting new authors. At first I couldn't find the website for publish america. When I finally did find it, it also found that they buy ALL RIGHTS. Needless to say I never submitted there. I did submit with the author I met at the bookstore - nothing ever came of it. Though, he did seem to be busy with book signings and whatnot.

Now I come in to this one which looks legit due to it being on Writers Market... Then I come across this.... I guess we'll see. The whole point of getting published by a publisher is that they take the financial risk, not the author.

Vanity presses like Vantage and Dorrance pay royalties on copies sold.

Problem is, they do no marketing, and the books aren't in stores, so there are never any copies sold.

So paying royalties is no indicator of whether a "publisher" is a vanity press or not.

-Ann C. Crispin

I would love to see a Black Rose contract with the 50-book purchase clause, if anyone's willing to share (in complete confidence, as always). My email addy is [email protected] .

- Victoria

I will say for Black Rose, that I was never "required" to buy any books. It was recommended, but I was never once told I had to buy. As well, they also told me that it was a number they match on their end as well, to distribute to various places (where is yet to be known.) for promotional purposes. They also told me they do have books on some store shelves, such as San Antonio Borders, and Twigs bookstore.
I've asked several times, and they have been pretty consistent with telling me (and I know telling and doing are two separate things) that they do keep some physical stock available for when they do book fairs, as well as for promotional purposes. When I asked, they provided me with a list of areas to talk to, and some that they try to work with as well. They have also stated that they are more than willing to try and adjust pricing and the discount offered to bookstores that want to bring the book in. Time will tell on that.
As for the cover, I didn't pay any extra, and the cover honestly looks fantastic. A large part of that is likely due to the idea that I didn't settle for anything less than what I wanted, but they were very accomodating for it. The proof copy I have has been shown to many people, including some managers for a large bookstore chain in Canada, all who have been impressed with the attractiveness of the cover.
WHat this all means remains to be seen, and I'm sure much of it has been due to my own doggedness as well...I wouldn't have been satisfied with a substandard cover, and neither should anybody, but as far as the actual physical book goes, I'm more than satisfied with it.
I'll wait and see what sort of marketing and promotion they succeed in providing before I really come to any real conclusions about the company, but so far they have been at the very least accomodating.
And of course, as a newbie, I'm just learning the ins and outs and taking all of this with a grain of salt, but I have to say I'm learning a lot from these forums! Thank you everyone for all the candor everyone seems to display. It's nice to see people taking such an interest in helping newbies.