Copy-editing positions

Arbar

Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
UK
I've recently started learning copy-editing, although at the moment it's all self-taught. I know that a publishing internship is one of the best ways to learn, but all the positions seem to be London-based and I'm not able to move.

How usual is it for aspiring copy-editors to contact small local presses and offer their services? More importantly, how successful are requests like this?

Does anyone have any other ideas for routes to take? I'm primarily interested in copy-editing non-fiction, but if it would help I'd obviously take on fiction (although developmental editing is not my aim)

Thank you :)
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Copy editing is a very particular skill. It's almost impossible to learn how to do it well if you're not mentored by people who are experts in the field.

I don't know of any good publishers who would employ a freelancer who wasn't already skilled in this area, and needed to learn on-the-job. Why should they pay someone to experiment with their publications? It's too high-risk.

There are courses you can take: the Society of Editing and Proofreading is good; I would not recommend ChapterHouse. But if you do want to become good at this you will need to work closely with other editors, and learn from them.

You might find this thread useful:

What should I ask a prospective copy editor?
 

Chris P

Likes metaphors mixed, not stirred
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,617
Reaction score
7,298
Location
Wash., D.C. area
I did freelance/contract copy editing for a few years for an outfit that specializes in English as a Second Language documents, mostly scientific journal articles. Old Hack is right, it's difficult for someone self-taught to get the attention of publishers. I got lucky and got in on the ground floor when the company was small, and they wanted me for my experience with scientific writing rather than editing experience. Now that they're bigger there's little chance I'd get in.

The more credentials you have from reputable institutions the better chance you'll have. Trust me, any publisher or contract outfit has ZERO tolerance for errors, as it should be, so you have to be at the top of your game. Perhaps starting as a freelance would be good before approaching publishers. I do know my three years of evening and weekend freelance experience meant nothing to the academic publishers I approached for full-time work. It's a tough field with a lot of highly skilled folks. But it can be done :)
 
Last edited:

snowpea

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
187
Reaction score
10
I was at an internship for a year doing a lot of stuff, including copy-edits. I was pretty good at it, unfortunately I found that CE jobs are very hard to get into because A LOT of people want them. Doing an internship is your best way to get your foot in the door though.

My issue was that I live in Texas, and most of the jobs are in New York or California.... And they don't want to interview someone who lives in another state either. I got one interview and one call back. The call back found out I was in Texas and ended the call. The interview just felt that I wasn't right for the job.

I essentially decided after only two months that I'd rather not work this hard to get such a competitive job and chose something else.

But yes find a publishing internship. It doesn't have to be big name, but you have to be able to get CE experience there.

I have thought about freelancing for writers, but many people do not understand the amount of work that goes into CE-ing.... They want to pay you $50 for a 400 page novel, and no that's not going to happen.
 
Last edited:

Ken

Banned
Kind Benefactor
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
11,478
Reaction score
6,198
Location
AW. A very nice place!
You can intern doing anything: fetching coffee, etc. And if you show promise at something and an interest they may consider letting you have a try or giving you some tutelage. So maybe try for an intern position at a publisher doing anything, with the realization it may amount to nothing in terms of your goal of becoming a copy-editor. Chances are it'll help at least in making you aware of what is involved. G'luck.
 
Last edited:

Arbar

Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
UK
Thank you all for your answers :) As I said, I'm still learning. I'm planning to take a course, and I'm volunteering for people - but don't worry, I'm not the final set of eyes on anything! That's why I thought an internship would be a realistic goal. Unfortunately, waiting for an assistant job or internship to come up among the 15 or so tiny publishers near where I live is not a promising prospect - would an LOI be acceptable in this case?
 

snowpea

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
187
Reaction score
10
I think a class is a waste of time. I'm self taught, and I learned from reading Strunk and White cover to cover, as well as listening to Grammar Girl.

The internship I got was at a small, independent publisher, and I really sought it out. I don't know if a letter of intent would matter. But almost anyone is willing to let someone work for free. If you ask to do a free internship, I'm sure someone will bite.
 
Last edited:

Debbie V

Mentoring Myself and Others
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
3,138
Reaction score
290
Location
New York
I'm self taught too, but I'm just starting out. I also taught ESL. I think a class is a good idea. Many companies bring in interns and employees based on their coursework.

You don't just need to know grammar, spelling and usage. You need to be familiar with the style guide the client uses, the software they use to track comments (Word, Google Docs, etc.), and the tone and mood they prefer to convey. You also need to understand what is standard in the business.
 

coriander

Registered
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
I would say that if your aim is to do freelance copyediting then you'd probably be better off doing a well-regarded course (either from the SfEP or the Publishing Training Centre) than trying to get a publishing internship. With an internship there's no guarantee you'll actually get to do much copyediting (or be taught how to do it properly), whereas at least with a course you'll definitely learn the basics and best practice etc.

There's a lot of helpful information in Louise Harnby's blog (http://www.louiseharnbyproofreader.com/blog) about how to start out as a freelance proofreader/editor, which is worth checking out.

Once you've got some sort of training/experience, try approaching publishers related to your degree subject; subject specialism can count for a huge amount in education/non-fiction publishing.

Good luck! :)
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
Coriander, what's your experience of working with Ms Harnby? Or is she a friend of yours?

I ask because you have just four posts here, and you've recommended her in two of them.
 

Deleted member 42

I think a class is a waste of time. I'm self taught, and I learned from reading Strunk and White cover to cover, as well as listening to Grammar Girl..

Strunk and White's Elements of Style is a guide written for college Freshman Comp students. That's its purpose. It has nothing to do, at all, with developing a facility for editing unless you're editing undergraduate comp papers.
 

az shea

Copy editor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
10
Location
USA
Website
aszanoni.blogspot.com
Strunk and White's Elements of Style is a guide written for college Freshman Comp students. That's its purpose. It has nothing to do, at all, with developing a facility for editing unless you're editing undergraduate comp papers.

Oh... I want to draw a huge heart around this, Medievalist.

Yes and yes, and yes again.

I know the OP is likely not looking, and this thread was from Sept. 2014: but if anyone else pops up here, I tend to send those interested in c/e to Amy Einsohn's The Copyeditor's Handbook.

In sf/f, some small presses will happily accept volunteer proofreading. Recommended to me (by one Tor editor) as a good way to get references and experience.

I supplemented my own nonfiction experience by volunteering for sf magazines -- while I had a paying job proofreading Locus. I kept querying publishers for paid work and had my first book copyedit the following spring. Some publishers sent me tests to take, some didn't.

One publisher, after I took their test, suggested I take SfEP or PTC classes as the UK requires certification, unlike the States. The EFA classes fill up fast, so if you choose those, don't dally.

Or at least certain publishers do; I've worked for two UK publishers that don't.

Best,

ASZ*---
 

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman
Super Moderator
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
22,454
Reaction score
4,956
Location
In chaos
I've never encountered a publisher here which required certification. They do ask for experience, though.
 

Jamesaritchie

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
2,311
I think a class is a waste of time. I'm self taught, and I learned from reading Strunk and White cover to cover, as well as listening to Grammar Girl.

The internship I got was at a small, independent publisher, and I really sought it out. I don't know if a letter of intent would matter. But almost anyone is willing to let someone work for free. If you ask to do a free internship, I'm sure someone will bite.

Classes a waste of time. For every person who lands a copy editing position without some kind of classes or degree, hundreds land positions by having something like this. You were incredibly lucky to find anything as a self-taught copy editor.

At any rate, saying classes or a degree for copy editing is a waste of time is like saying a medical degree for a doctor is a waste of time. This isparticularly true if you want a position with any large business.

And there's one heck of a lot more to copy editing than Strunk & White contains.

And, no, asking for a free internship, even if you could afford to work for free, does not mean anyone will bite. If it did, every free internship out there would have a thousand people lined up at the door.
 

az shea

Copy editor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
10
Location
USA
Website
aszanoni.blogspot.com
I've never encountered a publisher here which required certification. They do ask for experience, though.

I've been freelancing since 2007, so nonfiction experience isn't all I have anymore. :)

Thank you, OH. I'll have to check back with that publisher.

I usually do well on tests, but that editor was trying to help me do better.

I've been considering online classes for a long time... The first one I took was about editorial freelancing, not about copyediting. Likely not what he had in mind.

ASZ*---

P.S. Has anyone had a publisher ask for samples of your editing? That's never happened to me before.
 

Namatu

Lost in mental space.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
4,489
Reaction score
967
Location
Someplace else.
P.S. Has anyone had a publisher ask for samples of your editing? That's never happened to me before.
Yes. It's not unusual to submit samples with your resume or for a potential employer to ask you to take an editing test.
 

az shea

Copy editor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
232
Reaction score
10
Location
USA
Website
aszanoni.blogspot.com
Yes. It's not unusual to submit samples with your resume or for a potential employer to ask you to take an editing test.

Yes, I've taken quite a few editing tests. I like those. Some of the errors they insert can be a riot. 8)

Thanks to AW, I found out how to arrange for a work sample. Before this I had no idea.

(I could only think that I've signed nondisclosure agreements for some publishers -- and really book MS. are not something I could use as work samples either.)

I am very grateful to AW.

P.S. For anyone else wondering about work samples, I was going through this AW post, and Sterling Editing has a sample edit in their sidebar.

Best,