The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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Marie Pacha

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Merri,

I’m posting this primarily in response to you comments. I didn’t mean to insinuate (and I don’t think I did) that everyone who comes here from PAMB receives the same treatment as Mr. Stodghill. I know they don’t.

But you know, even Jason, who was well received, headed his first post thusly:
“New here, and my experience with PA (no issues here, don't shoot me)”

He said that, in part, because he’d seen the posts made here about his posts on the PAMB, and the criticism he’d received because of them.

CatSlave mentions someone who came in to AW a while back and was challenged in much the same way, by a different poster here. I think she’s talking about Lane Rogers, and I remember that incident. It’s my opinion that Lane Rogers and Dick Stodghill would be valuable attributes to any forum on which they post.

I don’t believe in labeling, but that’s why members of the PAMB call this a forum of bashers.
 

smsarber

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Earlier I said I can't help fanning the flames sometimes. The back and forth was, in my opinion, heated but not out-of-hand. I didn't see any malice, and I wanted to interject a little bit of ill-placed but well intended levity to the Dick vs. QoS interchange. Now we have seen how both sides of the AW alumni feel about all of it, so let's get back to the task at hand: warning people against making the mistake of choosing PublishAmerica (unless you have the full understanding you won't get any help with getting your book to the public). Everyone will be better served to move on.

PublishAmerica: Book Publisher= the ultimate oxymoron
 

smsarber

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I stopped posting here on a regular basis quite some time ago. One reason was that I've been working on a series of books, and another is simply that PA is not the center of my existence. Another is that the negativity here is often overwhelming.

.
Good luck on your books!
 

Marian Perera

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CatSlave mentions someone who came in to AW a while back and was challenged in much the same way, by a different poster here. I think she’s talking about Lane Rogers, and I remember that incident. It’s my opinion that Lane Rogers and Dick Stodghill would be valuable attributes to any forum on which they post.

If anyone wishes to look up Lane Rogers' posts, they will see that he posted some irrelevant comments in response to legitimate criticisms here and then deleted his posts. Rather than pick up his ball and leave this "forum of bashers", he was banned for trolling.
 

CatSlave

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CatSlave mentions someone who came in to AW a while back and was challenged in much the same way, by a different poster here. I think she’s talking about Lane Rogers, and I remember that incident. It’s my opinion that Lane Rogers and Dick Stodghill would be valuable attributes to any forum on which they post.

Thanks Marie, that's exactly who I was thinking of.
There are a lot of talented people still at the PAMB and they should ALL be made to feel welcome here.
Everyone has something valuable to contribute as long as they feel comfortable doing so.
 

Toothpaste

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I'm sorry but I have to say something. AW is a lovely welcoming place. It isn't perfect of course, it is a community made up of individuals after all. But I'm sorry, no one chased Lane Rogers away. I don't care how talented he is, how valuable his insight might have been, he was deeply rude, argumentative, and dismissive. People don't get a free pass just because they might have something to teach us. I personally am willing to give up on that honour if I'm treated poorly. Just because we are supposed to be very welcoming does not mean we have to put up with such behaviour. Now Dick, from everything I've read, seems really genuine, and while he might not agree with everything said in this thread (who is under such an obligation anyway?), he presents his arguments in a civilised intelligent reasoned manner. And most importantly, he listens, takes what has been said in response into consideration. To compare him to Rogers is indeed insulting to Dick.

Like I said, we aren't perfect here, but for the most part we're pretty darn good. And just because we will welcome anyone into the fold, does not mean somehow we have an obligation to put up with rude people.
 
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Marian Perera

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Like I said, we aren't perfect here, but for the most part we're pretty darn good. And just because we will welcome anyone into the fold, does not mean somehow we have an obligation to put up with rude people.

Thanks, Toothpaste. And since there seems to be some confusion about whether Lane Rogers was banned or whether he left our "forum of bashers" voluntarily, here's a link to a post which hopefully settles the issue.
 

Marie Pacha

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I remember the posts differently Toothpaste, no offense meant, and he deleted them before he left...so there's no way to verify.
 

Marian Perera

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I remember the posts differently Toothpaste, no offense meant, and he deleted them before he left...so there's no way to verify.

Many of his posts were quoted by people who replied to them, so they can be verified that way.

And since he was banned for trolling, perhaps his posts had something to do with it.
 

Dick Stodghill

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Thanks for the links to the mystery forum, Christine and James. I'll look it up later today after - believe it or not - another trip to see a medic. This is the HMO doctor who gives me a shot once a month. Unfortunately it comes from a needle, not a glass. Thanks once again for the kind comments and even those slightly barbed. My response has been slow today because of writing a St. Patrick's Day blog concerning some of my ridiculous Irish ancestors. I apologize for rambling, but it goes with being an octogenarian. Everything reminds you of something from the past. If anyone aspires to eventually become an octogenarian themselves, let me warn you it's not all its cracked up to be.
As for disagreements on boards such as this, I think they are great as long as they don't become nasty on a personal level. Life would be pretty boring if everybody agreed about everything.
 

allenparker

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A hospital

What was worse than having that bad agent, and getting printed with PA, was finding that through that process, I lost interest in writing altogether. If it hadn't been for AW, where I found encouragement through others, I would still have too much paper, too many pens and pencils and no words written.

The wonderful thing about AW is the ability to help PA writers write again. It is so disheartening to find out you have been scammed by a company who could not care enough to tell you the truth. It kills your ability to write.

AW has helped many writers in that scenario begin to write again.

I am not sure this was a planned process, but it certainly is one of the better benefits of the support writers get from this forum.

I have never been asked, but helping writers to heal is why I come back to this forum. I don't know if I have been of help, but I like to dream that I might have saved the next Gone With the Wind from becoming a mental dream in a disheartened writer's mind.

For all the struggles to make a place in literature, I could be happy with an ATTA BOY and the knowledge one PA writer found a Best Seller List to top and that I was in some way, a bit of a help over the rough patch.

Wouldn't it funny if it was me?
 

Marie Pacha

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I was not aware that Lane was banned, I merely meant to provide a name for Cat. Since the moderator specifically stated, "Remember the policy on discussing a banned member, please," I think further comment on that topic is inappropriate, at least for me.
 

spike

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I think some of us have forgotten the purpose of the PA threads on AW. To warn people. Most of us try to respect the authors the line gets blurry when people parrot PA's propaganda. The Mods have b-slapped me more than once for crossing that line.

If the choice is to warn people away from PA, at the possible expense of someone's feelings getting hurt, my answer is the person's feelings lose. Sorry if that offends. But this is the Bewares and Background section, not the Let's All Be Friends section.

As I've said before, I was saved from PA by AW. I like to think that there are more who can be saved.
 

Afinerosesheis

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I have been told that church is a hospital for sinners, then perhaps AW is a hospital for PA authors who expected more per the hidden promises in their website.

I have found more cure here than in any church!
 

kullervo

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I will add a warning and encouragement to any PA writer reading these threads. You may be told by PA writer/boosters that you might as well choose PA because agents and commercial publishers don't want unknown writers, don't want first-time writers, don't want writers without other credits, don't want writers without fancy educations, don't want writers without several finished books, etc., etc., etc. Some PA writer/booster even invented the imaginary "writer's portfolio," and said no agent or commercial publisher would accept a writer without one.

All of this is utter nonsense. Agents and commercial publishers sign new, unknown writers all the time. Don't be discouraged into settling for the horrible deal on offer from PA. Legitimate publishing is not a closed shop; they need new voices.
 

JulieB

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All of this is utter nonsense. Agents and commercial publishers sign new, unknown writers all the time. Don't be discouraged into settling for the horrible deal on offer from PA. Legitimate publishing is not a closed shop; they need new voices.

Just got today's Publisher's Lunch. 54 new deals yesterday. I think there were 150 reported the day before that. If you think those are all going to celebrities and the likes of Stephen King and J.K. Rowling, think again.

Publishers are still buying, and they're buying new authors.
 

merrihiatt

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Merri,

I’m posting this primarily in response to you comments. I didn’t mean to insinuate (and I don’t think I did) that everyone who comes here from PAMB receives the same treatment as Mr. Stodghill. I know they don’t.

But you know, even Jason, who was well received, headed his first post thusly:
“New here, and my experience with PA (no issues here, don't shoot me)”

He said that, in part, because he’d seen the posts made here about his posts on the PAMB, and the criticism he’d received because of them.

CatSlave mentions someone who came in to AW a while back and was challenged in much the same way, by a different poster here. I think she’s talking about Lane Rogers, and I remember that incident. It’s my opinion that Lane Rogers and Dick Stodghill would be valuable attributes to any forum on which they post.

I don’t believe in labeling, but that’s why members of the PAMB call this a forum of bashers.

Hi Marie!

I hear what you are saying and certainly do acknowledge that sometimes people get so riled up about PA that it spills over onto an author (as in "Why would they sign with PA, don't they care about their book?" or "With all the information about PA on the internet, only a fool would sign with PA."). For the most part, though, I do believe that the people on this board are well intentioned and well behaved. And, when someone does accidentally (or intentionally) start to veer off the helpful path, there is always someone nearby to say, "Let's keep our comments about PA, not PA authors."

I believe that there is an inaccurate perception that anyone who comes to these threads will be instantly labeled and if they don't agree with an anti-PA posture, they will receive some kind of mistreatment. I have not seen that happen. I have seen rudeness replied to in kind (which is not helpful and which does not further the goal of providing support and accurate information to folks who may be thinking about signing with PA or who have already done so). I also have seen great kindness, compassion and empathy.

I was labeled a "basher" on another forum after posting my thoughts about PA. Even after I stated that if someone made their choice with their eyes wide open, then more power to them and I wished them well, I was still a "basher" and would always be consdired a "basher." I can't change someone else's opinion. I can only walk in my own truth and know that if I didn't speak out, and speak up, where PA is concerned, then I might as well crawl into bed with the folks at PA and take people's money just like PA does.

It's like having a jar of peanut butter on the counter and a friend comes to visit. She reads the ingredients on the label and sees that there are peanuts in the peanut butter. She is allergic to peanuts. But, she really wants some peanut butter. If she has read the ingredients and chooses to eat the peanut butter, I guess I'll be the one to call 911 and support her through the reaction she will endure. However, if my friend left her glasses back in the car and can't read the label, I'm definitely going to tell her that she's about to eat something with peanuts in it, and since she's allergic, she will most likely have a reaction. In the end, it's still her choice, but I will not sit by and watch when a little bit of information may make a huge difference.
 

smsarber

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Da-da-da-da-da-dada, da-da-da-d-d-d-da

Is the economy sending more hopeful writers to the Stooges hang-out? I hope not, but I'm afraid more and more people looking to make extra money, who have a story to tell, are Googling "publishing," seeing PA pop up, and clicking the link ready to believe whatever they read on the site as absolute fact.
 

merrihiatt

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Oh, and one point of clarification about the title of Jason's post. He received a warm welcome, he said so after receiving responses. Again, there is an illusion that someone will be attacked for sharing their PA story, pro or con. I have not seen that happen. If someone comes to these threads with an intention of proving a point and denouncing the posts that are made here, then I think they receive a different response. Intention is huge.
 

Marian Perera

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I was labeled a "basher" on another forum after posting my thoughts about PA. Even after I stated that if someone made their choice with their eyes wide open, then more power to them and I wished them well, I was still a "basher" and would always be consdired a "basher."

Labels like "basher", "naysayer", "psychic vampire" and so on are usually resorted to when there is neither evidence nor reasoning to back up one's position. So they don't bother me, especially since (as in Merri's example) they're not exactly applied rationally or with discrimination.
 
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CatSlave

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I have never been asked, but helping writers to heal is why I come back to this forum. I don't know if I have been of help, but I like to dream that I might have saved the next Gone With the Wind from becoming a mental dream in a disheartened writer's mind.

For all the struggles to make a place in literature, I could be happy with an ATTA BOY and the knowledge one PA writer found a Best Seller List to top and that I was in some way, a bit of a help over the rough patch.

Wouldn't it funny if it was me?
There's no reason to think it was NOT you. Keep up the good work. :Hug2:
 

smsarber

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Allen, your naked thoughts from the naked futon have always been helpful. And when I climb to the top I can say you were one on the many from this forum who helped me keep my nose to the grindstone and rise out from the pit of PA despair.
 

Dick Stodghill

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I had to write myself a reminder about message boards and work. This is a good board and many nice people post here. I’ve found that out during the past few days. The cause is a good one, helping people. It would be difficult to name a more worthy fight.
Like any message board for writers it poses one danger: the theft of time. I hope no one else becomes so involved that the goal of writing is forgotten. I have forgotten it a few times during recent days.
I have always believed that working at my last newspaper for a while would be the best training for any writer because it kept a person focused on the goal. Walking into the newsroom at 7 a.m. and finding on your desk a pile of obituaries and stories clipped from the morning paper waiting to be rewritten served as a daily eye-opener. No excuse was acceptable, just sit down and write. The city editor didn’t care about your headache, chest cold, hangover or family problems. All he cared about was the copy you sent to his desk. He expected it to arrive quickly.
I needed a reminder that it is somewhat the same on any message board or almost anything on the Internet. Take time to pour a cup of coffee, then get busy. Don’t wait for inspiration or ideas, just write and be thankful it isn’t an obit you’re writing. I believe it was Phillip Roth who said (and I’m paraphrasing), “Amateurs get up in the morning and hope for inspiration. A writer sits down and gets to work.”
That’s the key word every writer has to remember and I have not the past few days. Work, that’s what writing is. It’s what I do. So here is what I am telling myself today: Enjoy the message boards for a short time in the morning. Then get to your job, which is writing. When you run out of steam and need a break or when the day’s work is done, enjoy the message boards again. Don’t forget your goal. Don’t spend half the day on the boards. Don’t look around for inspiration because it has gone into hiding. Just work, just write something even if you have to hunt up an obit to rewrite.
Boy, did I ever need to hear that, even if it came from me. The Internet is a wonderful thing and I love it. I love message boards. Unfortunately the Internet can be the biggest waster of time ever invented. I’ve got to get my old habits kicked into gear again. I've got to remember the goal. I’ve got to get to work. Before and after, then I can have fun.
 
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