• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

Mundania Press / PhazE / New Classics Press

seaaircarol

Frustrated Pluviophile
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
359
Location
California
I do have this MS subed out to others now anyway.


This is one of the reasons why I w/drew mine from Mundania. Even if they allow sim. subs (and I forget if they do or not), other publishers require exclusives. One of the reasons I found Mundania appealing was their reported 2-month turnaround. But instead of my manuscript being with them for 2 months, it was tied up for over 5, and who knows for how much longer after that. I received an acknowledgment to my withdrawal, but there was no indication of how far my manuscript had gone in the process. For all I know, they hadn't looked at it at all.

Maybe Dan will come in and be a little more specific about how far along in the process the December and January manuscripts are. Best of luck to you all, whatever you decide to do. I wish Mundania the best as well--it just didn't work for me.
 
Last edited:

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
I've had no less than five authors tell me they were told they "misread" their contract when they thought their books would get into the stores and how they chastise everyone for not selling enough books. This is in addition to asking their own authors for ideas for selling online -- something that's clearly the responsibility of the publisher. Having their authors be an unpaid sales force is how they stay in business.

Priceless has it nailed. I've changed my opinion of this outfit after doing some investigation and talking to some authors.

Here's another indicator that the sole income is derived via the author. Look at the horrendous quantity of books they have published. This is the K-Mart and PA mentality (bulk sales), whenever you see books pumped out on an assembly line like widgets--it is sheer, overwhelming numbers by which they can stay afloat. They've been in business long enough to have made the effort to obtain some type of bookstore placement/distribution. The fact that they are lax in communication is evidence of a tital wave of contracted author inquiries.

Tri
 
Last edited:

williemeikle

The force is strong in this one.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
3,735
Reaction score
669
Location
Canada
Website
www.williammeikle.com
Even 5 months is no time at all to wait, considering other response times I've had ( worst ever was a 2 year rejection on a full request.)

I'm going to hang on and wait a bit longer.
 

seaaircarol

Frustrated Pluviophile
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
359
Location
California
And I completely agree that five months isn't that long. I have a sub that's been out for almost a year. My only objection is that they say on the website it should be 2-3 months. Yes, they have a line saying it could be longer, but they invite you to status query after two months. I status queried twice and never got a response, so was unable to judge where my sub was in the process. Had I received any kind of indication that the manuscript had moved up to an editor and the full was being reviewed, etc. etc., I would have hung on. Best of luck to you.
 

priceless1

Banned
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,622
Reaction score
446
Location
Somewhere between sanity and barking mad
Website
www.behlerpublications.com
Had I received any kind of indication that the manuscript had moved up to an editor and the full was being reviewed, etc. etc., I would have hung on.
Even though they have zero distribution and badger their authors to sell more books? I can't help but wonder what your intent is for all your hard work.
 

seaaircarol

Frustrated Pluviophile
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
359
Location
California
Well, I can't speak for the others who are subbing to them, but I'm having trouble finding markets for novella-length (43,000 words) sweet romances. I tried Harlequin and Avalon, and didn't know where else to go other than the e-pubs. If anyone has any suggestions, I am certainly open to them. Thanks.
 

kiwiauthor

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
506
Reaction score
163
Location
In the sunny warmth of the South Pacific
Hi, Priceless1, how about opening a science ficition fantasy imprint at Behler :)

Tri, not sure that this isn't a slight generalisation. Samhain, for instance, work on a similar strategy, releasing new books nearly every week, but they're light-years ahead of Mundania, imho. Just saying :).
 

kiwiauthor

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
506
Reaction score
163
Location
In the sunny warmth of the South Pacific
seaaircarol, have you tried Samhain? Sure, novella length work will only see E-publication, but you'll likely make more money with Samhain than if you go for the print option with Mundania.

The Samhain pub. credit is going to mean more too. Just a thought. Oh, and another thought, Samhains' wonderful editors might suggest ideas on how you could lengthen your book to print size ... maybe?
 
Last edited:

seaaircarol

Frustrated Pluviophile
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
359
Location
California
Thanks, kiwi. Tried them and was rejected (although if I recall, it was a very nice rejection).
 

triceretops

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
14,060
Reaction score
2,755
Location
In a van down by the river
Website
guerrillawarfareforwriters.blogspot.com
Tri, not sure that this isn't a slight generalisation. Samhain, for instance, work on a similar strategy, releasing new books nearly every week, but they're light-years ahead of Mundania, imho. Just saying :).

Oh, I agree kiwi, there are a few exceptions that have some medium of distribution and appear on shelves. Samhain is one of them. Ellora's Cave might be another. Blue Phi'er has just gained a small outfit, pays advances and cover price roylaties. But man, you really have to investigate them and/or query their authors to get the lowdown.

Tri
 

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,321
Well, I can't speak for the others who are subbing to them, but I'm having trouble finding markets for novella-length (43,000 words) sweet romances.

I think your best bet is the e-pubs in that case.

Couldn't you add 10,000 words of Christian content and market them to the Harlequin Christian imprint, though?
 

Jennifer Robins

paranormal interest
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
340
Reaction score
33
Location
Ohio
Website
www.jenniferrobins.com
I canceled my submission today. I have my novel, Jeffrey sent out else where and hope I won't run into the same thing. Good luck to all of you who are hanging in there. I understand that some publishers take as much as a year or more, but they let you know that right up front.

Jennifer Robins
 

seaaircarol

Frustrated Pluviophile
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
359
Location
California
I think your best bet is the e-pubs in that case.

Couldn't you add 10,000 words of Christian content and market them to the Harlequin Christian imprint, though?


I don't know if that would work, but I appreciate the suggestion.
 

seaaircarol

Frustrated Pluviophile
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
1,078
Reaction score
359
Location
California
I canceled my submission today. I have my novel, Jeffrey sent out else where and hope I won't run into the same thing. Good luck to all of you who are hanging in there. I understand that some publishers take as much as a year or more, but they let you know that right up front.

Jennifer Robins

Best of luck, Jennifer.
 

JohnB1988

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
102
Reaction score
9
Location
Brooksville Fl
Anyone buy a Mundania book recently?

I bought one some time back when I was considering submitting to them. OK book, decent editing, but it arrived as a ZIP file. For many of us that’s no biggie, but Zip files are getting rare now and I don’t know the names of any unzipper programs that don’t cost money after the trial period. Seems to me that extra bother would be one more reason why a reader might not make a purchase. I just wondered if they’re still sending out their books that way.

PS. Once unzipped it turned I could only read it in an internet browser. The largest font was way too small to read. I ended up copying and pasting it into Word so I could actually make out the letters. That worked, but I ended up with a modifiable manuscript of some other poor author’s work on my computer. Didn’t much like that. :Shrug:
 

Mark Wakely

Still working on that second novel
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
201
Reaction score
14
When did you buy the book?

I received a PDF file of my book when it was published in February 2005, but that was one of my free author's copies so I'm not sure if that's how they're actually sold.

Also, Mundania makes their eBooks available in a variety of formats. Which did you buy?

A great free extractor for almost any compressed file is Extract Now. Here's a link to its description on downloads.com:

http://www.download.com/ExtractNow/3000-2250_4-10038365.html?tag=lst-1&cdlPid=10530635
 

para

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
442
Reaction score
29
Did you buy the html version by any chance? I have bought html files and found them to be zipped because they have more than one file.

Doesn't windows have a built in unzip/uncompression tool?
 

JohnB1988

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
102
Reaction score
9
Location
Brooksville Fl
I bought that book quite some time back, maybe right after Mundania first hit the internet. Site seemed a bit clunky. I thought I was buying a PDF, but it came as a HTML. Unzipping’s no biggie for me, but I know people who don’t use it and thought it wasn’t a good business practice. Maybe they only use it for html orders. Someday I’ll try buying a book from them again and see how it works.
 

priceless1

Banned
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,622
Reaction score
446
Location
Somewhere between sanity and barking mad
Website
www.behlerpublications.com
I swear. If I was the entrepreneur behind one of these independent publishers, I'd just pack it in.
I think you need to define who "these independent publishers" are. The discussion is about Mundania on this particular thread.
Do you really think these people are making a fortune here?
No, I don't, but that isn't the issue. Very few POD companies make money because they lack proper funding in the first place. Furthermore, they can't get distribution, nor can they place their titles on store shelves. They don't have the money to hire publicity folks, and their books will never be reviewed by the big trade magazines. Lastly, they make their money off the backs of their unpaid sales force: their own authors. Whether their intentions are purely benevolent or not, they simply can't get the job done properly.

they're doing it because they love the industry (god knows why), or because they love books.
I think it's a foregone conclusion that we all love books. This is a fascinating industry, and we get to meet many wonderful and talented people all the time. However, if you truly love books and authors, then you want to do the very best for them, and that's doing things right. POD companies can't do this because they lack money. A lack of money spells doom for the author by way of inferior editing, cover and interior design, marketing and promotion, reviews, shelf placement, and proper sales representation.

This site needs to get of its high horse and respect the efforts that these people put in for what I expect is at best a decent living.
High horse? I don't see where this is happening. Let's not forget the purpose of this forum; bewares. As for a decent living, you're in dream land. It takes years to make a quasi head-above-water living for a publisher, and it's downright laughable to think that any POD (outside of Publish America) is making anything but a dismal return on their investment.

Two months is nothing and if you pull your ms, it's only because you can't handle waiting (they require no exclusive),
I agree with you. This is the problem with PODs in general. They put forth the notion of entitlement - that every author deserves to be published - and that is crap. They need those quick turnarounds because they need a constant flow of new stock because this equals new authors buying their own books. Where I may publish eight books a year, a POD needs to publish 25-30 because they have no idea who will buy books and who won't.

Mundania and other PODs are generally backlogged due to the huge submission rate because they accept all genres. This is particularly alarming because they can't possibly do justice to editing all genres. But authors don't care, and they continue to submit because the desire to be published is stronger than the desire to be published right. And this is why PODs will never die.
There is such a passive aggressive herding instinct in frustrated authors to hammer away at what I view are decent people working really hard to help break past the traditional publisher stigma. Why aren't we cheering these guys? They produce good books. No one should be allowed to slander unless they've sampled the stock and found it wanting...
Good gravy, have you actually read this thread? We've outlined any number of ways that this company is hardly working for the good of the author. It's more a game of barely keeping their financial heads above water. You actually think browbeating authors to sell more books is "breaking the traditional publisher stigma"? Trade publishing is not broken, and this old and sorry line is trailed out by every POD company in order to justify their inferior business methods.

I've not read a Mundania book or any other POD's, but let's just say that you get what you pay for. If you can't afford to hire experienced editors for every genre (because, after all, they accept all genres), book designers and interior designers, then I daresay their books can't possibly hold a candle to a trade publisher. I see no reason to cheer, but rather, I feel badly for any writer whose impatience to be published overrides common sense.
 

JackFred

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
I would quote, but that would become unwieldy. I'm glad you posted Priceless. I've read several of your posts on POD and they carry industry insight which I respect. But let me say this, that most first novels contracted by 'traditional' publishers receive about as much attention as a POD novel. There is a reason why the focus has moved to the writer's 'platform' and that is because the big publishers want the authors to do their dirty work for them too. What's the difference between a $5K advance from Tor and nil from a POD? I know what you're going to say re distribution and I don't buy it. Not 100%.

Why is St. Martin's working so closely with Breakneck books? Why Kensington with Samhain? It's because the industry is breaking down. Agents are not doing the job that they were initially created for. PODs ARE the new farm team for authors. It IS a fascinating time to be involved in publishing. I'll also say that when I had no publishing creds, major publishers and most agents wouldn't consider me. With one POD cred, my request rating went for 5% to 50%. Let's not beat up on the PODs. They serve a valuable purpose until the traditional players get there act together.
 

Richard White

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
2,993
Reaction score
600
Location
Central Maryland
Website
www.richardcwhite.com
What's the difference between a $5K advance from Tor and nil from a POD?

Me getting paid for my hard work or me not getting paid for my hard work.

Hmm, $5000 from Tor for my novel with the possibility of more from royalties after I earn out my advance, plus bookstore placement, possibility of reviews in appropriate magazines/newsletters/newspapers, professional covers, professional editing, and professional credits

OR

No money from a POD publisher and a larger % of royalties (usually based on NET not cover price) and no bookstore placement, no reviews and no distribution, which probably means minuscule to no royalties, possibly good editing, clip art covers and not considered a professional credit?

Thank you, I'll take getting paid every time.
 

JackFred

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
And I would get paid too Richard, but my point is that the difference is actually growing pretty thin. $5K isn't much, and I do see good POD covers, and some reviews, and POD books winning awards, which suggests good editing, and I'm what we can do as authors to promote books will be expected either way and far outstrips what most traditional publishers will commit to. I've never seen an ad from Tor for some midlist book.
 

priceless1

Banned
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,622
Reaction score
446
Location
Somewhere between sanity and barking mad
Website
www.behlerpublications.com
But let me say this, that most first novels contracted by 'traditional' publishers receive about as much attention as a POD novel.
How do you know this? What kind of "attention" are you talking about? I have many author friends who are first-timers. Some went with one of the big six houses, and some went with indie trade publishers such as Sourcebooks. In every case, they were treated quite well and their distribution is unbeatable with their titles in nearly every bookstore across the country. The editing is far superior than anything you'll ever see with a POD, as is their interior design and cover design and marketing. They've been reviewed by all the big trade magazines and have no problem getting events.

Being a small trade publisher, we are able to give our authors a lot of individualized attention and help them refine their platform and promotional plans. I'm sorry, but your assertion that new authors get the same attention as POD publishers is untrue because PODs give their authors zero attention. What you forget is that we are in the business to sell books, so we have to bust our hump to accomplish this. PODs depend on their authors to sell their books. You can't equate the two business plans.

There is a reason why the focus has moved to the writer's 'platform' and that is because the big publishers want the authors to do their dirty work for them too.
"Dirty work"? How is selling books dirty work? We all look for a good author platform so we can sell a maximum number of books. It's called competition in a free market, and that's how we all stay in business. How is this evil? I grow weary with this constant demonization of the big bad trade publisher, like we're somehow preying on authors. It's bogus. You seem to want everyone to play on the same field, and it's untenable. You want something for nothing. POD publishers don't have a lot of money to buy the quality editors, designers, and marketing folks, while we pour thousands into every title and have distribution. PODs print a few books here and there, while we print thousands. So, sure, you'll have to excuse us for requiring that our authors have a marketable product and platform. We've invested thousands of dollars for every title we produce. How much did the POD spend per title?

What's the difference between a $5K advance from Tor and nil from a POD? I know what you're going to say re distribution and I don't buy it. Not 100%.
Um...well, yeah, distribution is how books get sold. What exactly makes a POD with inferior editing, no marketing, no distribution a better choice than Tor? Sorry, but you're way off base here, and I doubt there is a single author who would agree with you. Tor authors enjoy far more benefits and true success than any POD author will ever see. You'll need to provide some serious backup to defend your claims.
Agents are not doing the job that they were initially created for. PODs ARE the new farm team for authors.
Do you have backup and proof of this? I work with many agents, and their job is to place books with the best possible publisher. How has this changed? Exactly how are PODs the new farm team? Again, you'll need to provide some proof.

It IS a fascinating time to be involved in publishing. I'll also say that when I had no publishing creds, major publishers and most agents wouldn't consider me. With one POD cred, my request rating went for 5% to 50%.
It has always been a fascinating time to be involved in publishing. I'm happy for you that you've seen more interest in your writing, but I daresay it's because you've written a good book. A POD publishing history isn't really something that most editors or agents get all gooey over becuase PODs accept books that trade publishers won't. Now, if you sold 5,000 units of a POD book, then, sure, we'd get gooey.

Let's not beat up on the PODs. They serve a valuable purpose until the traditional players get there act together.
I beat up on PODs for a reason. They simply aren't in the author's best interest. Could you please tell me exactly what it is we trade publishers need to do to get our act together?
 

priceless1

Banned
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,622
Reaction score
446
Location
Somewhere between sanity and barking mad
Website
www.behlerpublications.com
And I would get paid too Richard, but my point is that the difference is actually growing pretty thin.
There is a mile of difference. Trade publishers have the ability to sell far more books than PODs because of their distribution, so you would be paid far less from your POD publisher because you simply can't sell as many books.

I've never seen an ad from Tor for some midlist book.
Midlist authors don't usually get ad space in magazines because ads are classically ineffective in selling books. I can be fairly assured that you won't see an ad for a POD book, either. If you do, it's because the author paid for it.