The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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Ed Williams

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Hey Jeff, sorry I took this long to answer...

Jeff said:
Ed, I'm interested and I am a newbie at this so my questions is: When you deal with a reputable publishing co. and you feel there might be a discrepancy between what you sold and what you got paid for, what is the procedure to resolve it? Is there a "common" procedure or is it something that varies by contract? Does it have to involve lawyers and accountants or do they just send you copies of their ledgers or paperwork for your review?
...and Uncle Jim, Victoria, Jenna, or others who are much more well published than I am could answer this better, but I will answer re my own situation. Per my the contract on my latest book, I can request "a look at the books" at least once per annum. I would have to notify my publisher in writing, but I could come "audit" their books and bring an accountant with me if I desire. That's what's in my contract. Something else needs to be added, though - contract or no, my current publishers (River City Publishing in Montgomery, AL) are run by a couple of very nice, ethical people. I have no doubt that if I called anytime wanting to see their books that they would honor the request. Remember all the shucking and jiving PA did when asked about theirs? Sometimes you can tell alot about a publisher not just by what's in their contract, but in how they typically comport themselves. Remember an age old adage, honest people have nothing to hide.
 
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Dolan

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Nobody, doesn't like Willie.

Willie has not had a book published by PA. That should tell you country writers to stay away from PA. Shouldn't it?

I heard a duet of Willie and Waylon signing the "Mommas" song and I'm pretty sure the lyrics warned them away from old, pick-up trucks and PublishAmerica.

But then again, that was back in my drinking days.
 

JennaGlatzer

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FYI: I stole Anthony's keyboard. :thankyou:So I guess the vet doesn't have to make a stop here.

RC: Keep meaning to tell you that I once lived in Schenectady. Worked at Steamer No. 10 Theatre-- ever been there?

One of the things that bugs me about some of the PA logic (like the threads chang linked) is that it always seems to come down to, "Everyone in the publishing world is wrong! Someday they'll be begging for our books!"

I really don't care who uses the term "author" or even "published author." Self-pubbed, vanity-pubbed, or comercially-pubbed, the titles don't matter much to me. If you wrote a book and saw it to print, I have no problem with calling you an author.

However, if you've been commercially published, I have a little more reassurance that you're a good author. Not foolproof, but it does tell me that an editor liked your work and a publisher decided to invest in it.

When you find out that authors' groups, bookstores, libraries, agents, reviewers, editors, etc. do not consider PA to be a "real" publisher, why is it that many PA authors are so quick to discount that opinion? Regardless of what publishing method you choose, bear in mind that to gain readers, you still need to follow certain steps: get trade reviews, get the book stocked on shelves, get libraries to carry it, etc. If you ignore and belittle the words of all these people, how do you expect to make it in the business they run?

When a bookstore manager says, "I can't shelf your book because it's POD and non-returnable and too expensive," the manager isn't doing that to be an elitist jerk. He/she is telling you something of value: Here are the things your book needs to be stocked in my store.

I can't say for sure with the writers' groups because I don't belong to any of the professional genre associations, but my guess is that they limit themselves to commercially-published authors to keep a peer relationship among members. If one member is published by Scholastic and the other is published by PA, the relationship becomes mentor-mentee instead of networking. The Scholastic author has experiences, contacts, etc. that the PA author has not achieved yet, and there are several ways they won't be able to "talk shop" together.

I am part of one writers' group that, while it has no formal requirements, is mostly made up of high-level freelance writers. I go there to network and chat with people who are already on my "level" professionally. I don't go there to teach. I don't mind teaching, of course, but I also want a place where I can go for help, rather than trying to bring others up to speed. And if there are editors/agents invited to check out members' work, I want to feel confident that my fellow members are ready for publication.

I don't think that's elitist, but it is merit-based. If your work is good, I believe you can find a publisher. It may not be quick and easy to do so, but with enough pavement-pounding, I think a great book can always find a home. And once you've done that, you won't have to worry about stigmas or whether or not you're "really" published. You won't have to badger store managers into "seeing the light" about non-returnable policies and overpricing. That's not your job anyway... it's the publisher's job to do the distribution and marketing. It's your job to write the best book you can, work with an editor to make it shine, and contribute to publicity efforts (not do it alone).
 

needles

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Memphis Ed said:
Will you buy fiction on-line without someone recommending the book or your hearing about it somehow (i.e. advertisement in USA Today or similar)?

I have and will, if the storyline sounds sufficiently intriguing.

I buy a lot of e-books for my iPaq, which I take with me everywhere since it seems I also buy a lot of cargo pants. And ya know, there are two reasons why I prefer buying most of my books on-line--you can google the authors, yes, but more than that I'm not distracted as much by pretty, pretty cover art as it hits me from eye level when I'm perusing the shelves at the local Border's. It's as if then another impulse-purchasing dynamic dominates and I'm less likely to find a read I'd really enjoy. I'm not going to summarily turn over each book to take a look at the cover copy on the expectation that the title of the book or its cover doesn't adequately convey what the book is really about. Whereas if I'm looking at a page of offerings at ereader or Fictionwise, it's as if I'm perusing a catalog--the book covers are the size of a postage stamp next to their respective summaries, and then you can kind of glide over the descriptions for those idiosyncratic keywords -- "hmmm...abandoned alien ship...lycans...hot tubs. Hey! Here we go..."

Jim pointed out that PA no longer offer their books as e-book downloads. I was thinking about how many authors whose books I've bought b/c I first encountered their short stories on Fictionwise--for as little as 42 Merkin pennies or as much as upwards of $4.00 dollars, it's more often than not worth the gamble.

To shop from PA's offerings, though? I can't afford the time or energy to sift through over 10,000+ offerings to find the authors readable enough to justify the avg $20/pop.
 
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Renee

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Dolan said:
Nobody, doesn't like Willie.

Willie has not had a book published by PA. That should tell you country writers to stay away from PA. Shouldn't it?

I heard a duet of Willie and Waylon signing the "Mommas" song and I'm pretty sure the lyrics warned them away from old, pick-up trucks and PublishAmerica.

But then again, that was back in my drinking days.

Yeah, Willie's likeable, even though he's country. I have to admit to liking a couple of his songs, ok several! It's CONDITIONING I tell ya! LOL...

Whiskey for my men and beer for my horses..lmfao...

Or is that save a horse, ride a cowboy? Kidding..that's someone else entirely. But I do like that country song.

I like the older country music some, just not that hick shiat! And don't be pointing them Willie fingers at me, I'm from Texas! And uh, so is Willie. Matter-of-fact he read my book..lol.. :guns: :wag: :whip:
 

lindylou45

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Sher2 said:
But if one of the Stooges had to put his hand on the Bible, do you think that grubby hand would melt?

The Bible would probably burst into flames. :scared:
 

Dolan

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PA Records

Let me set Willie aside and say something about accountants.

My attorney told me that PA can not prevent an accountant from examining my records at PA, even though they claim that only I can look at them. It is because accounting is a profession and I'm a layman, etc. It is not rational to think that I am qualified to understand PA's records. I am entitled to have a pro audit my PA records.

The problem is that PA can and has refused to permit an accountant to audit my PA records. They won't let her in the door, so they say. My remedy, at law, then is through legal action to force them to reveal the records.

This is a civil matter and must be dealt with through civil action. No cops, no FBI, etc. (I really miss Roy Rogers, though. He would know what to do.)

I will keep my promise, to PA, that they will see how I will have my accountant looking at their records.

Me and Willie keep our word.

Phil

P. S. I never liked the way Dale Evans wore her hair.
 

SeanDSchaffer

lindylou45 said:
The Bible would probably burst into flames. :scared:


I think a trap-door to Hell would pop open and, well... I think we all know what happens right about that point.

:eek:
 

robeiae

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Ed Williams said:
2. Renee, I loved that hamdog, and the fried twinkie was even better! I feel like a fifteen year old again, it's lucky I'm away from civilization here in rural Georgia tonight...(People have it all wrong about grease and fat and all, my theory is, eat lots of it, build up immunities to it, and then you'll live longer. Hey, it works for snake handlers, doesn't it)?

Stop talking about that hamdog! I'm drooling all over my keyboard!

Rob
 

lindylou45

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Dolan said:
Nobody, doesn't like Willie.

Willie has not had a book published by PA. That should tell you country writers to stay away from PA. Shouldn't it?

I heard a duet of Willie and Waylon signing the "Mommas" song and I'm pretty sure the lyrics warned them away from old, pick-up trucks and PublishAmerica.

But then again, that was back in my drinking days.

Dolan,

It sounds like you would be quite comfortable in the Lords of the Prance thread in the Take it Outside Board. Several of us have been rewriting songs and making them parodies of PA. Give it a shot. It's fun! :Jump: :hooray:
 

Renee

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Ed Williams said:
Renee, I loved that hamdog, and the fried twinkie was even better! I feel like a fifteen year old again, it's lucky I'm away from civilization here in rural Georgia tonight.:D





The hamdog would probably give me a two day indigestion situation. Plus, I'm not sure I'd want to be 15 again! Ok, I'm positive that I don't want to be 15 again..lol..
:wag:

But a fried twinkie sounds yummy!

;)
 

Canada James

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gena140 said:
The reason is that MANY self publish books are full or ERRORS and don't look professional.

Just curious, but how many of the 11, 000 PA books have you read? If I gave you some titles, would you be willing to log onto the author's website and read a few sample chapters?

gena140 said:
They are not regularly available on book shelves and the authors have a difficult time getting them shelved. (the same complaints many have with PA). So for my goals I realized that choosing either one was a gamble.

I felt the same way.

gena140 said:
If I had chosen self publishing I would have to do the same things I'm doing with PA, the only difference is I can HONESTLY say I was published by a small publishing company.

They aren't a small publishing company by any definition. They have 11,000 authors. What would you say it is about PA that makes them small? Who would you compare them to?

gena140 said:
My business partner, who is also an author with a manuscript out there is self published and her book is AWESOME. But the same places that have agreed to order my book, and publicize my book refused hers.

I'll make you a deal. When your book comes out, I'll randomly visit 15 bookstores. If I find copies of your book in them, I'll buy every copy.

Your challenge:

Go back to those bookstores and mention the following with your PR:
(1) No returns policy
(2) short discount (20%)
(3) Tell them the price of your book and the page count
(4) There's no deferred payments. All monies owed are payable by credit card and due upon order

gena140 said:
Although my book has not been released yet, it's been available on PA's website for about a month. I have received letters, calls, and emails from family, friends, and complete strangers who have ordered, received, and enjoyed my book.

How did they hear about it?
Did you hear what happened to Nancy Mehl when her book was about to go national?

gena140 said:
My family is BLUNT like me. If there was anything not up to par about the book they received, the ordering process, or the shipment...they'd tell me.

PA is fine sending orders to individuals through their website.
Ask the bookstores to keep you appraised of their experience.

gena140 said:
Everyone is pleased and PROUD of me.

And they should be! You should be! Finishing a book is a hard thing! All the people here want your book to be available, as in stocked, in real brick and mortar bookstores across the nation.

gena140 said:
I've already been approached by an agent who saw my PR release, and read my book. I'm not ready to choose one yet...but it feels good to know that someone is interested.

Would you be willing to share who that is?

gena140 said:
All of this and I'm still a month away from release.

Let me know what you think in September.

gena140 said:
My goals from this point don't involve PA, they were the stepping stone...and for that they've been what I wanted...needed...and expected.

I, too, got what I needed from them. I also got one huge headache and embarrassment whenever a bookstore tried to order my books. They would ignore phone calls, faxes and emails. They'd "lose" orders and then deny to me that the bookstore ever called them. (I work for the bookstore. I was sitting with the ordering person when she called.) They said the price of my book would be $16.95, but it's remained at $19.95 through Ingram still to this day.

Wait until your book is "available" through the bookstores and the problems start happening. I hope they don't, but they will. When you question PA about it you, too, will get the infamous "don't take that tone" letter.

If you want to see something interesting, go to the beginning of this thread. Around page 7, I believe. Check out how *I* thought PA was a fine company, too. And before someone convinces you that I'm a failed author with "sour grapes", check out my website. I have another book coming out and it'll be distributed by the same company that publishes the Canadian edition of Harry Potter.

Canada James
 
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SeanDSchaffer

Dolan said:
Let me set Willie aside and say something about accountants.

My attorney told me that PA can not prevent an accountant from examining my records at PA, even though they claim that only I can look at them. It is because accounting is a profession and I'm a layman, etc. It is not rational to think that I am qualified to understand PA's records. I am entitled to have a pro audit my PA records.

The problem is that PA can and has refused to permit an accountant to audit my PA records. They won't let her in the door, so they say. My remedy, at law, then is through legal action to force them to reveal the records.

This is a civil matter and must be dealt with through civil action. No cops, no FBI, etc. (I really miss Roy Rogers, though. He would know what to do.)

I will keep my promise, to PA, that they will see how I will have my accountant looking at their records.

Me and Willie keep our word.

Phil

P. S. I never liked the way Dale Evans wore her hair.


Right on, Phil!:Thumbs:
 

SeanDSchaffer

Canada James re your previous post

Just so you know:

The person you were addressing in your long post above my previous one has been banned from the board, and therefore cannot respond to your questions properly.
 

Renee

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Dolan said:
Let me set Willie aside and say something about accountants.


The problem is that PA can and has refused to permit an accountant to audit my PA records. They won't let her in the door, so they say. My remedy, at law, then is through legal action to force them to reveal the records.

This is a civil matter and must be dealt with through civil action. No cops, no FBI, etc. (I really miss Roy Rogers, though. He would know what to do.)

I will keep my promise, to PA, that they will see how I will have my accountant looking at their records.

Me and Willie keep our word.

Phil

P. S. I never liked the way Dale Evans wore her hair.

Why of course they refused. Did ya think they'd bake you a cake? LOL..

You know, we all know, that PA is guilty as sin. But those stooges are tricky, remember that. They are trying to protect their worthless little jobs of sitting constantly on their azzes. And they'll do anything, including falsifying their records to prove it. You just have to keep on pushing, through your lawyer, of course. People like the stooges are truly capable of anything evil..

Word of advice though: (IMHO) I wouldn't tell them everything you are planning to do about your contract through this board. The stooges are always here. You don't want to give any warning to them. Plus, I want to see this work for you.
 

DreamWeaver

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Dolan said:
My remedy, at law, then is through legal action to force them to reveal the records.

This is a civil matter and must be dealt with through civil action. No cops, no FBI, etc.

Let me see, civil action
emoticonidea.gif
...does that mean the judge could fine them for every day they refuse to comply, and you can eventually take over all their assets? The townhouse? The Porsche? The spell-checker?

Hmmm, I'm liking the sound of this better and better.
cool.gif


Kris
 

SeanDSchaffer

Jenna...

It's good to see that you're back! You sure sound like you're doing better.:) Did you get the pm I left for you?
 

Canada James

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Traditional vs. Commercial

SeanDSchaffer said:
Just so you know:

The person you were addressing in your long post above my previous one has been banned from the board, and therefore cannot respond to your questions properly.

I'm kind of bummed. Well, if she reads the post, she can feel free to PM me here or through my website.

By the way, Jenna please don't kill me for posting this in the wrong place, but I'm tying this into PA:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894965310

The point I want to make is this:

If you notice, my name is wrong on the cover. My publisher has been notified and the error corrected (before it went to print). The cover on Amazon is still wrong.

Now, it's taken PA, what, 1 1/2 years, and the price is *still* wrong on my PA book.
Let's play a game and see when the cover art error on Amazon gets corrected, and we'll see the difference between a "traditional" publisher and a "commercial" publisher.

I'll post the details.

Canada James
 
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AnneMarble

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realitychuck said:
For those who think the Internet is the future of books: the Internet has been around for over ten years. During that time, how many books have you purchased online?

Quite a few, but not as many as I've purchased in brick and mortar stores. Mostly trade paperbacks and hardbacks, because the discount is better. If I don't have the urge to buy a particular book right away, I sometimes order it from Amazon or B&N instead. That is, if I can hold myself back...

But (ahem) I often see them while browsing in the regular store first. ;) (ahem) Also, sometimes I think my Amazon wish list should be retitled "Stuff I hope to buy at the Barnes & Noble down the street."
:roll:

The on-line bookstores are also good places to find stuff the stores aren't stocking. For example, I just got a package containing a collection of Russell Kirk's ghost stories from Amazon.

realitychuck said:
How many have you purchased in electronic format?

More than 200 from Fictionwise.com alone. But I'm weird. :D Also, most of those were reprints from authors put out by major NYC publishers.

realitychuck said:
Now, how many have you purchased in a brick and mortar retail outlook?

More than I should. Waaaay more.
:faint: :scared: :cry: :flag:
 

AnneMarble

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lizziepants said:
I was all steamed about my book listing at one point in time, though I have a fairly decent review -- someone'd come along and suggested in addition to The Red House Amazon customers might also like The Big Book of Masturbation.

Maybe Larry and Willem did it. They're master baiters, you know.

Darn, where's the rimshot smiley?

This will have to do.
:wag:
 

mdin

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I still don't get the allure of e-books. I've purchased a couple to read on a handheld, and even then it just irked me. I couldn't get comfortable. One of them was a really good book, and I ended up printing the last 70 pages just so I could concentrate more on the story than my comfort level.

Nonetheless, I have a book available on fictionwise, and I'm constantly surprised how many people purchase it despite the horrendous teaser. So there is a big market for e-books, and that makes me happy. I get more royalties from the sale of the e-book than I do from the sales of the physical copies.

****

And to keep this thread on target... Lisa! Bravo. I got your press release in my inbox just now. Very well done. If anyone wants to read it, it's here.
 

Jeff

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I really don't care who uses the term "author" or even "published author." Self-pubbed, vanity-pubbed, or comercially-pubbed, the titles don't matter much to me. If you wrote a book and saw it to print, I have no problem with calling you an author.

Jenna, I try to be empathetic to the plight of the Publish America authors, but when I do become exasperated, it is usually due to the things you've noted in your post.

As I've pointed out in the past, it seems that many of these folks want to circumvent the rigors of being published while still claiming all the benefits entitled to those who did not. Over and over you hear the same refrain from many of them; I did not want to wait.

It's akin, I think, to the 45 year old who buys his way into attending a fantasy baseball camp, and then shows up at Yankee stadium on opening day wondering why they will not let him into the locker room. Sure, he's got the uniform from the camp, he's got the hat from the camp, he's even brought his glove -- but who the hell is he and who has he competed against to prove that he can play center field? Why should the Yankees put him in the game just because he bought his way to the trappings of the success that others earned legitimately? Why should Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi, Gary Scheffield and Alex Rodriguez consider this guy their peer when he did not go through the same vetting process that they did? When did he prove himself? How can he explain to those who earned the right to be in the major leagues that he circumvented the system and tried to make an end-run around it to get to there with them?

Why then, should they respect him?

What I find ironic about these PA folks who claim they are on some literary pirate ship is that they think that they have found a way to an instant literary pedigree when in fact all they have done is show us that they are foolishly desperate for the very thing that they refuse to continue to work hard to earn.

And that is something that I cannot respect.
 

needles

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Jeff said:
Jenna, I try to be empathetic to the plight of the Publish America authors, but when I do become exasperated, it is usually due to the things you've noted in your post.

No..noooo...I read that post and I thought she was just making the point that putting together a mss worth printing was an admirable end in itself, but whether the mss could be considered commercially viable was something different entirely...

Jenna said:
However, if you've been commercially published, I have a little more reassurance that you're a good author. Not foolproof, but it does tell me that an editor liked your work and a publisher decided to invest in it.

Jeff, I appreciated your analogy--it reminded me of the time I encountered an unspectacular high school classmate who spent two years at a local trade school before going to a med school in the Caribbean*, and who then insisted upon being addressed as "Dr. So-and-so", when I felt--knew?--that she'd somehow subverted the process by which most ppl earn MD's.

I feel bad for making these distinctions, b/c you'll find so many more gems in vanity or subsidy presses than you'll find future Salks in offshore underfunded and underequipped med schools, so it's totally not an apt analogy. And I feel lousy enough for even asserting the likelihood of that latter statement to pretty much shut up now.

*Actually, I've been thinking about it for the past 2 hours, and it may have been Central America.
 
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