The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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Afinerosesheis

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Have you'all come up with any ideas for the economy since I've been gone?

No? You have been arguing petty points? Tsk Tsk

I have been around these issues numerous times. I have been attacked, ridiculed and labeled over all this publishing BS. It is great to debate and disagree, but on this issue, I fear, there is very little middle ground. How about agreeing to disagree and work together to help others with their writing ventures.

I'll check back later.
 
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Dick Stodghill

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Endless Rewrite - We have a hamster, but not the ones I believe you are referring to. Little Joey, the most active, friendly and fun loving of the 16 we've had, came to the most unhappy end of all - ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. Zippy, aka Mr. Zip-Zip, suffered a heart attack while still quite young. Our newest, Sophie, is a nice little lady so having her with us is a joy, but we still miss the others.

Christine, I have no idea why PA was his selected publisher. I could ask him, but would rather wait for him to tell me. I had no idea he was making that move. We do correspond so eventually I imagine he will tell me the reason for his choice.

Obviously I have created some animosity here. I have tried to answer a number of questions, which also is obvious. It has become apparent that no reply will satisfy those who posed the questions so I won't do so again. Nor will I provide the hoped-for angry response.

Two people have asked me to check out the mystery forum. How do I find it?
 

Christine N.

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At the top of this page, click the Absolute Write Water Cooler link (it's in the bar just above the page of posts) Once you're there, scroll to the bottom and you'll see a list of genre forums, Called Get with the Genre. Then choose your poison.

Here's a direct link:
Mystery/Thriller/Suspense forums
.
 

James D. Macdonald

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The Mystery forum is here.

I'm a hamster person myself, but at the moment I can't have one, since my wife keeps cats, and that wouldn't do at all. So I have to visit friends with hamsters, and commune with the hamsters in pet shops when I happen to be near one.
 

stormie

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Dick, you've been welcomed to AW. Jim even posted a direct link to the mystery forums, which is easy to find here, esp. for someone in the writing business as you have been. A few of us even recognize you from the Alfred Hitchcock/Ellery Queen forums. I post there, but under the user name "Lizzie." You're a very good writer and the people here at AW have questions, plain and simple. It's a give and take here, not like on the PublishAmerica Message Boards where any dissension is quickly mollified or the post locked or it's sent to the private forums.
 

tlblack

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Admittedly, I haven't seen an EQ in years. Not that I wouldn't read them, just that I haven't really thought about the magazine since my Grandmother had a subscription to it, back in the 80's. Moving around as an AF dependent for 18 years, I would usually just buy the mags I could find on base instead of subscribing to save the hassle of address changes. I'll have to get my own subscription as I did always love those stories.


Could you imagine the price if PA had it's own magazine? EGADS!
 

stormie

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On the AH/EQ forums, I posted that the covers of EQ have to get more with the times. Unfortunately, they've been catering to the over-sixty crowd with the pulp fiction book covers from the 40s and 50s. The only reason why I've been reading it, is a few years ago, an older relative subscribed to it and a writer friend has been pubbed in it several times. I've been hooked on it since.

Dick Stodghill and I have posted comments about it, the covers of EQ. He for, me against. He's been cordial on those forums.The exchange can be read here. I'm Lizzie.

The editor of EQ had mentioned to one of its steady authors that she'd like to reach the younger generation. I've suggested updating the covers.
 
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Marie Pacha

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It's not my habit to post and run, nor to be deliberately rude, so please let me respond.

Steve, I'm not going to post the comments that made me feel it was suggested that I leave. I think QoS knows which ones I mean. I accept her statement that it was based on an assumption that I don't post here much anymore.

Jersey, my comment about the board being inhospitable for PA or former PA authors was not directed at everyone. I am sorry if you took it that way.

I stopped posting here on a regular basis quite some time ago. One reason was that I've been working on a series of books, and another is simply that PA is not the center of my existence. Another is that the negativity here is often overwhelming.

I'd really like you to understand that when you jump a new member the way you did Mr. Stodghill it really does offend a lot of people and many of them are people who might want to discuss some of the issues you bring up, but are afraid to approach you. In creating that situation you are defeating your own purpose.

Everyone has to start somewhere if they want to be published. I was referred directly to PA by one of their other authors, and I know it sounds absurd in this day and age, but in 2003 I wasn't aware of all the resources for investigating reputability of firms on the Internet. Even if I had known the information was there, how is a person inexperienced on the Internet going to know how to judge the vast amount of information thrown at him/her?

I'm going to bet that the vast majority of PA authors find themselves in the same situation. They are not dumb, and they are not bad people, but ladies and gentlemen you are really, really hard on them.

This is a forum for WRITERS for God's sake. Words are powerful, but they don't have to be vicious, and in my humble opinion they are far more effective when used judiciously.

Marie

QoS, Your comment about not my not clarifying what statements you have made in error was quite fair. I'll clarify that for you in private and I will provide you with documentation to back it up, but not this evening.
 

Scribhneoir

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The editor of EQ had mentioned to one of its steady authors that she'd like to reach the younger generation. I've suggested updating the covers.

Quite frankly, the pulp covers are what inspired me to pick up EQ again after many years. I love pulp art. Of course, being in my forties, I'm probably not exactly the younger generation she's hoping for. I've still got some old issues of EQ from the '70s -- talk about boring covers . . .

I think they'd have more luck reaching younger readers if the magazine were a little easier to find. Around here, it's only stocked in the larger Borders stores. I finally decided I'd have to subscribe if I wanted to read it regularly.
 

Marian Perera

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Thanks Marie, that's decent of you. As I said, if I'm wrong I'd like to know about it. And once again, I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I wanted you to leave. Honestly, I don't feel that way at all.

However, I do feel that some of Mr Stodghill's posts here and his past support for PA has a lot to do with the "jump" response. Otherwise, if the only reason for his being criticized is that he's a PA author, surely Merri and Jason and other PA authors would have been treated the same way when they first arrived. But they weren't.
 

stormie

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I have three thoughts going here at one time. Brain overload.

First: Dick Stodghill. Many of us here at AW have questions. It's a give-and-take. That's what forums are for. You do that nicely at The Mystery Place. PA doesn't encourage that give-and-take. It's more like you give, they take.

Marie--words are powerful, and that's why people here want to get the word out--stay away from PA. You should see WritersNet. They too warn against PA. Loudly.

And Scrib, see, I feel the younger generation would subscribe to EQ if the covers were more enticing to someone under 35.
 
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Marian Perera

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You should see WritersNet. They too warn against PA. Loudly.

Just one thing I'd like to add on that subject -

As well as all the public information about PA, there's some information that isn't common knowledge. PA has approached some authors privately, offering them certain "special deals". I won't go into detail here because I learned about these in private, but let's just say that even if the contract has been greatly revised, PA is still a bad idea for writers.
 

Scribhneoir

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I had no interest whatsoever in getting back into the mainstream other than marketing a few short mysteries to high-paying magazines. In searching around I discovered I could obtain not one but two neatly-prepared copies of this gray-haired segment from an outfit called PublishAmerica. It could be done in a surprisingly short period of time. All things considered, time was of the essence. I had read many less-than-flattering comments about this publisher but they were of no interest to me.

I've got a question for you, Dick. Did you realize PA was a vanity press when you signed up with them?

I ask this because it seems incredible to me that, with your experience, you didn't realize this, yet even a year later you were assuring folks on the PAMB that PA was not a vanity press. Why did you do that?



Dick Stodghill Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:54 am Post subject:

You don't need to come up with questions, Ana, the reporter will do the asking. Having spent most of my working life as one I know that most reporters aren't too excited by conducting interviews so just be pleasant to him or her and things will work out fine. From reading other posts I think you should emphazise that PA is not a vanity press. Don't worry, just relax and enjoy the experience.
Dick Stodghill Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: Eligible For Professional Writers Organizations?
Occasionally someone asks if they are eligible for organizations of professional writers and if not, why not. Most have strict guidelines that exclude all POD publishers, be they print on demand or publish on demand. Since the arrival of the internet the number of vanity presses (those that charge from hundreds to thousands of dollars to publish a book) has gone from a handful to dozens and the market is flooded with books, many of less than professional standard.

PublishAmerica is not a vanity press but is excluded by a clause most professional organizations adher to: "works printed and bound by a company which does not place the work in physical (aka brick-and-mortar) bookstores."
 

merrihiatt

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However, I do feel that some of Mr Stodghill's posts here and his past support for PA has a lot to do with the "jump" response. Otherwise, if the only reason for his being criticized is that he's a PA author, surely Merri and Jason and other PA authors would have been treated the same way when they first arrived. But they weren't.

I have seen many, many posts from PA authors (and folks who were almost PA authors but changed their minds) on these threads. In my time here, I have not seen a person who came here with a question, concern or heart-felt PA story to tell be ridiculed or put down. I have never personally felt attacked or maligned in any way. Just the opposite. Even when I stated that I knew I hadn't done as much research as I should have, folks here at AW didn't say the very words I said to myself over and over again: "Just how stupid are you that you signed your book away for seven years to a vanity press?" On the contrary, they were compassionate, had great empathy for me and my situation and encouraged me to keep writing (which I have). I could have easily been another writer who chose to never write again after this experience. AW helped me to realize that one mistake (signing with PA), didn't need to abolish my entire writing career.

Lest you say that the reason I was greeted warmly was because I was anti-PA, let me say that I am actually not anti-PA. I'm anti-PA misleading people to believe that they edit books, that their books will be available to bookstores (without noting that most POD books are not in bookstores and that PA's return policy and discounts are not comparable with other publishers to the point of being downright silly), and that their business model is not to put books in the hands of readers, but in the hands of their authors. If PA would simply state that they will print books as submitted, make them available online, and offer a discount to their authors to purchase their own books, I would have no problem with PA whatsoever.

All of the these things I noted above have nothing to do with PA authors. Only PA itself. All the things I noted above are not even noted in the PA contract. Talk about misleading!
 

CatSlave

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The Mystery forum is here.

I'm a hamster person myself, but at the moment I can't have one, since my wife keeps cats, and that wouldn't do at all. So I have to visit friends with hamsters, and commune with the hamsters in pet shops when I happen to be near one.
A good friend of mine has a reputable pet store, and last time I visited he had a cage full of baby ferrets all wrestling and tussling with each other.
They were the cutest darn rascals I've ever seen. :D

Unfortunately, my cat would agree.

OK, break's over, back to bashing the Stooges...uh, the PA management. :e2stooges
 

JimmyD1318

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A good friend of mine has a reputable pet store, and last time I visited he had a cage full of baby ferrets all wrestling and tussling with each other.
They were the cutest darn rascals I've ever seen. :D

Unfortunately, my cat would agree.

OK, break's over, back to bashing the Stooges...uh, the PA management. :e2stooges

I like gerbils and hamsters. But my wife and I have five cats, one dog, one rabbit...and of course my baby girl,Stripe, the ball python. So if the cats didn't get the little things...I think Stripe would!:D In other words...we have enough pets already.
 

CatSlave

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If I remember correctly...

Sometime in the past year, one of the fairly new, more articulate PAMB posters appeared at the AW forum.
He was an intelligent speaker who didn't mince words and seemed to catch on very quickly to the game PA was playing.
I, for one, was delighted when he finally showed up here.

But it seems that he was baited and challenged and accused from the get-go, so he picked up his marbles and left for a different playground.

I'm sorry I just can't recall his name right now, but IMO it was a great loss for the AW forum.
I felt he had a lot of keen insight to offer on writing and people in general.

I would be very sorry to see it happen again.
 

Afinerosesheis

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I have always been treated kindly here at AW. There were a few exceptions, but not many. People listened even if they didn't quite understand. Many of them truly cared, and still do. You can speak freely here (or at least that has been my experience, and I am pretty mouthy!), without being censored.

OTOH I have seen nastiness here from time to time. It happens. It happens anywhere you go. If I see it I just try to keep my mouth shut. I am tired of the endless sniping over PA. PA stinks for the most part. Others may not agree. That's okay. Time to (as the wonderful Judge Judy would say), put a period at the end and move on. So that's what we should do when we feel the need to get ugly.

But there still is no harm in helping others who have been disappointed by PA.
 

tlblack

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What was worse than having that bad agent, and getting printed with PA, was finding that through that process, I lost interest in writing altogether. If it hadn't been for AW, where I found encouragement through others, I would still have too much paper, too many pens and pencils and no words written. I mean, it must be that I was supposed to write, otherwise I'm not sure how long it would take to use up two cases of printer paper, all the notebooks and leaf paper I have acquired, not to mention the hundred or so pens and pencils I have stashed in every room in the house. My real problem at the moment is that I don't have the time to write more than I can get typed here in a few minutes. Oh well, one of these days...
 

spike

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Delurking for a moment. (I'm one of those who reads a lot and posts a little)

Dick, it was great to see here. I hope you stick around AW, there is more than the PA threads.

We do TRY to show PA's faults and not attack the writers, but when the authors become mouthpieces for PA, the line blurs. We copy the PAMB's posts to offer a different opinion. People (like me) can compare what is said on PAMB and here and make an informed decision. AW saved me from PA.

You were welcomed here, but people wanted more information concerning your PAMB posts.

I really do hope you stay around.
 
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