Ferguson, Missouri, episode II

Zoombie

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It doesn't always work.

Also, the Japanese Self-Defense force was founded in 1954, even though it's roots go back to the end of WWII. The Bundeswehr was founded in 1955. Both forces were founded almost a decade after the end of WWII, and neither draw a historical tradition from their predecessors.

The Iraqi army, on the other had, was reformed in 2003 and was a continuation of the traditional Iraqi Army.

It is a logical fallacy to think that just because the entire police department is replaced that it will perform "better". With the amount of hate and discontent that is being directed towards that department there is no way that the "best and brightest" will go anywhere near there.

All this says is that rebuilding something takes time, effort, and a clean historical break.

I see no way that this couldn't work with the Ferguson PD (or with the Iraqi army).

It just needs to be done by people who aren't morons.
 

Diana Hignutt

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All this says is that rebuilding something takes time, effort, and a clean historical break.

I see no way that this couldn't work with the Ferguson PD (or with the Iraqi army).

It just needs to be done by people who aren't morons.

There's your problem.
 

badwolf.usmc

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All this says is that rebuilding something takes time, effort, and a clean historical break.

I see no way that this couldn't work with the Ferguson PD (or with the Iraqi army).

It just needs to be done by people who aren't morons.

And do you have a person in mind, or is it just "non-morons"?

Also, that rebuilding wasn't successful.
 

nighttimer

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It is a logical fallacy to think that just because the entire police department is replaced that it will perform "better". With the amount of hate and discontent that is being directed towards that department there is no way that the "best and brightest" will go anywhere near there.

Right. Because the Ferguson PD was already made up of the "best and brightest?" :rolleyes

This "hate and discontent" you speak of? Could it be possible as the Justice Department's report revealed in agonizing detail the policy of systematic targeting African-Americans by the Ferguson Police Department has a little something to do with it?

It is not whether an all-new police force will perform "better." They could hardly perform worse. It would be a significant improvement if the citizens of Ferguson get some cops who perform "differently" and "legally."
 

badwolf.usmc

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Yeah, that's why I included the "not a moron" bit: Because I am a partisan hack!

I never thought that of you.

Right. Because the Ferguson PD was already made up of the "best and brightest?" :rolleyes

This "hate and discontent" you speak of? Could it be possible as the Justice Department's report revealed in agonizing detail the policy of systematic targeting African-Americans by the Ferguson Police Department has a little something to do with it?

It is not whether an all-new police force will perform "better." They could hardly perform worse. It would be a significant improvement if the citizens of Ferguson get some cops who perform "differently" and "legally."

I never said they were the best and brightest. Hate and discontent is military jargon, which I used while forgetting that not everyone has the same baseline of slang.

Of course they could perform worse. Right now they have lost their moral authority and trust from the community. An all new police force would have, in addition to that, no experience in policing that community.

If there is a better way, I’ll be the first in line, but it better work this time…
 

nighttimer

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I never said they were the best and brightest. Hate and discontent is military jargon, which I used while forgetting that not everyone has the same baseline of slang.

Yeah, I was in the military too and here's two slang term that perfectly describes the Ferguson Cop Shop: FUBAR and SNAFU.

badwolf.usmc said:
Of course they could perform worse. Right now they have lost their moral authority and trust from the community. An all new police force would have, in addition to that, no experience in policing that community.

And your point is? Most police don't live in the communities they serve.

With cops spending most of their time cruising around in cars and never meeting the people they are supposed to protect until they respond to a call, it's no surprise the cops don't know the people and the people don't know the cops.

badwolf.usmc said:
If there is a better way, I’ll be the first in line, but it better work this time…

Or? :Huh:
 

Fruitbat

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Does anyone have a link to the DOJ report?

Also, did anyone in authority say they are going to reorganize the whole Ferguson PD or was that our idea? Could it be the offenders are actually already gone?

I'm behind on all the updates..
 
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blacbird

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Hate and discontent is military jargon,]

Hate and discontent is "military jargon" in the same way "blue, red, big, small, cat, dog, bread, cheese" are military jargon. These are normal words understood fully by any sentient human being, in whatever language they are expressed. Nobody needs to have had military experience to have full understanding of these common words.

caw
 

backslashbaby

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Man, I'm bummed by how my Twitter timeline is taking to the news of Jeffrey Williams' arrest. So many people smelled a police conspiracy in the shooting of the two cops! Like, they thought the cops arranged for the shooting. Come on. And they think Williams is being framed by police :(

So now it seems that a pastor/one of the protest organizers and Williams' lawyer are saying that Williams was beaten in custody and that his confession is therefore no good (my phrasing).

Of course I care if a man was beaten or coerced in custody, and I also really want anyone who shot innocent people to be locked up. I'll wait until more information is known, but I certainly don't have the immediate feeling that Jeffrey Williams needs all kinds of cheerleaders right now. What a mess :(

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/16/us/fe...ex.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 

nighttimer

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I

The Continued Adventures of If You Keep Picking That Scab It's Never Gonna Heal:

Missouri Lt. Governor Peter Kinder (R) said that the protests in Ferguson that followed the death of Michael Brown were "based on a lie" and that there was more racism in the Department of Justice than there was in the St. Louis area.

"The whole blow up of this protest movement was based on the lie that never happened of hands up don't shoot," Kinder told NewsmaxTV’s "Steve Malzberg Show" Monday in comments that were first highlighted by BuzzFeed.

Kinder was referring to a Department of Justice report released last week which concluded that witness accounts that Brown had his hands up when police officer Darren Wilson shot him were "inconsistent with physical and forensic evidence."

But a separate DOJ report on Ferguson police practices found that the protesters were justified in their demonstrations, even if Brown did not in fact have his hands up when he was killed. The DOJ report found that Ferguson police systematically discriminated against African-American citizens and acted as a vehicle for collecting revenue for the town instead of protecting its citizens.


Kinder also said that the DOJ was staffed with "hard-left radical leftist lawyers," but admitted that the report identified some "legitimate grievances." Kinder pointed to the resignation of six Ferguson employees, including police chief Thomas Jackson, as evidence that reforms were being implemented.

"At some point the protesters need to give us a respite," he said.

Kinder, who has been lieutenant governor since 2005, said that the media and the Justice Department magnified what was going on in Ferguson.

"There is more racism in the Justice Department than anywhere I see in the St. Louis area," he said. "We've come an enormous way in 50 years, that's not to say that we don't have still more to do. It is the left, it is the Eric Holder and the Obama left and their minions that are obsessed with race while the rest of us are moving on beyond it."

That's the line that never ceases to amuse "...obsessed by race while the rest of us are moving on beyond it."

How exactly does one "move on beyond" race by denying its existence and refusing to acknowledge its pernicious and debilitating effect? Where does this magical mystery tour of "moving on beyond" race take "the rest of us" to? Some Shangri-La of peace, harmony and non-stop "Ebony and Ivory" harmonizing?

Lt. Governor Kinder has been the Lt. Governor of Missouri for nearly a decade. I don't know what the job responsibility of the Lt. Governor of Missouri are but if it encompasses oversight by the state government over the excesses and illegality of the local government, Kinder has done a shit job.

The protestors don't need to give Kinder a respite. They need to put a foot deeper in his ass.
 

robjvargas

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The willingness of politicians to circle the wagons around themselves should have stopped surprising me a long time ago.

And yet... here I am surprised yet again. Stupidity over ethics.
 

badwolf.usmc

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Yeah, I was in the military too and here's two slang term that perfectly describes the Ferguson Cop Shop: FUBAR and SNAFU.


That could be said just about anything.


And your point is? Most police don't live in the communities they serve.

With cops spending most of their time cruising around in cars and never meeting the people they are supposed to protect until they respond to a call, it's no surprise the cops don't know the people and the people don't know the cops.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0


The supreme court said that police do not have a constiutional requirement to protect people. They are there to enforce laws, not protect people.




Peace Sells.


Hate and discontent is "military jargon" in the same way "blue, red, big, small, cat, dog, bread, cheese" are military jargon. These are normal words understood fully by any sentient human being, in whatever language they are expressed. Nobody needs to have had military experience to have full understanding of these common words.

caw

Oh good, then we all know that this phrase means to experience someone's dissatisfaction, usually in the context of receiving violence or aggression.
 

onuilmar

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Well, according to this link, the cop shooting was accidental. (Read down in the link) The gun went off in the context of an unrelated dispute and those two cops were shot accidentally.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...cite-Violence-Against-Police-Blame-Protesters

The interesting part, however, is that the infamous James O'Keefe was trying to foment a cop shooting among the protesters.

So, depending on how reliable that information is....
 
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nighttimer

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Well, according to this link, the cop shooting was accidental. (Read down in the link) The gun went off in the context of an unrelated dispute and those two cops were shot accidentally.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/...cite-Violence-Against-Police-Blame-Protesters

The interesting part, however, is that the infamous James O'Keefe was trying to foment a cop shooting among the protesters.

So, depending on how reliable that information is....

How do you "accidentally" shoot two cops? :guns:

I'm not saying its impossible to believe, but it's hard to believe. Mr. Williams had best hope for Perry Mason as his attorney and a very compassionate judge.

Regarding James O'Keefe, this little punk is a disgusting bag of dog dirt who needs a beatdown in the worst way. He's trying to agitate violence against the cops and maybe get someone killed. That's foul.

Now I'm not advocating for someone to punch O'Keefe's lights out, but if it happens, it wouldn't mess up my day.
:box:
 

onuilmar

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How do you "accidentally" shoot two cops? :guns:

I'm not saying its impossible to believe, but it's hard to believe. Mr. Williams had best hope for Perry Mason as his attorney and a very compassionate judge.

Agreed. :) I am certainly not validating the information...

As for James O'Keefe, he's agitating to invalidate the protests. First thing I thought of when I heard the cops were shot: agents provocateurs.

Of course, that's with no evidence and just my imagination running amok.
 

JubbyO

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OH! And my pet peeve? Tags like African-American, Asian-American, WhatevertheFk-American. If you were born in the country and your parents (at least one of them) is a legal resident of the country, YOU ARE AMERICAN! Deal with it. Anything else is just fomenting unrest and is divisive.

The U.S. Census takes down races of different people so I don't know who you're yelling at. Are you telling the government to stop using racial identity tags? Because you will change a huge system including healthcare, police investigations, autopsy reports etc.

I also don't think we should get rid of identity groups because all that does is shield racism. For example, African-Americans are twice as likely as white Americans to be unemployed and searching for a job. If we didn't keep track of racial groups, this wouldn't be discoverable. Everyone would think the unemployment rate is 5.6% when it's actually 10.6% for African-Americans. They also would think police officers were great, except police officers are like 7x more likely to stop a black person than a white person. So... how would getting rid of racial groupings actually help anyone? In fact, it would just hurt people of color!
 

Rufus Coppertop

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Oh good, then we all know that this phrase means to experience someone's dissatisfaction, usually in the context of receiving violence or aggression.
So there isn't a specialized military usage of the phrase "hatred and discontent"? That's almost disappointing.
 
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nighttimer

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backslashbaby

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I know! I swear I'd be hard-nosed if running cops, and if there were enough in a budget you could always hire somebody else. If there's not enough in a budget, there are still ways of making them shake in their boots; they are cops, not Disney mascots, for Pete's sake! Unless it's the unions that are the problem with bosses being *ahem* strict on some folks.

The whole system needs a tough chainsaw consultant, I swear. Preferably ex-military like my dad when he was a management consultant before retiring.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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