American Millennials are among the world's least skilled

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
Fortune has the story.
Surprised? So were the researchers who tested and compared workers in 23 countries.

We hear about the superior tech savvy of people born after 1980 so often that we tend to assume it must be true. But is it?

Researchers at Princeton-based Educational Testing Service (ETS) expected it to be when they administered a test called the Program for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (PIAAC). Sponsored by the OECD, the test was designed to measure the job skills of adults, aged 16 to 65, in 23 countries.

When the results were analyzed by age group and nationality, ETS got a shock. It turns out, says a new report, that Millennials in the U.S. fall short when it comes to the skills employers want most: literacy (including the ability to follow simple instructions), practical math, and — hold on to your hat — a category called “problem-solving in technology-rich environments.”

Not only do Gen Y Americans lag far behind their overseas peers by every measure, but they even score lower than other age groups of Americans.
Third from the bottom in literacy, dead last in basic math, and in a four way tie for the bottom (with the Slovak Republic, Ireland, and Poland) in smart use of technology.

It's good to know the massive investment in education and the about-to-implode College Loan Bubble has worked out so well. :sarcasm

Just what are kids learning in school these days?
 

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
40,775
Reaction score
5,947
Location
Some personalized demiplane
I'd love to know what universe where - according to my admittedly shoddy math - 3.8% of the budget is "massive investment."

68 billion SOUNDS like a lot, until you put it both in perspective and in context.
 

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
20,569
Reaction score
4,814
Location
youtu.be/QRruBVFXjnY
Website
www.ifoundaknife.com
rant engaged/
(Remember, you asked. I am in the middle of the PBA -- spring test period for PARCC. I've worked with 60+ schools in the last two weeks, helping them to administer and deliver testing. No, I don't work for a testing company.)



This year? They are learning how to take tests.


The "Smarter Balanced" consortium claims 22 member states/territories, with 17 testing students this year.

"PARCC" - the Pearson consortium claims 13 states testing this year.

And there are dozens of other tests -- SAT, ACT, DLM,

How much time are kids spending testing? That's a good question. And the answers are being spun as fast as they are being asked.

AND, it's only half of the correct question.
Actual time taking tests varies, but it is nothing compared to the time (hours that can equal days and weeks depending on school size) spent by the schools preparing to administer the tests, learning to administer the test, and teaching the students the mechanics of taking the tests (not the content-- the buttons, scrollbars, order of entering required data -- it's like learning a new game system or a brand new cell phone.)

That is educational time lost for students, teachers and communities.

There are outlier schools and outlier teachers within school systems who are still engaging with critical thinking skills and project based learning whenever they can, but the systems are...systemic.

The "why's" are abundant. It's not just one reason. Some of it is greed (in the forms that fail to care of our fellow man or are more interested in selling products for profit rather than usefulness), some of it is fear of change (in some cases fear of becoming irrelevant or being just plain tired,) and there are no one knows how many other reasons in that hand basket.

Blame? Pick two, pick four, there's plenty to go around. We can blame the "greatest generation" or their parents, or their kids, or "kids these days". We can point fingers at the political party of your choice. Or corporations, unions, lobbyists.

Blame is easy. Easier than taking responsibility and working to find the solutions that might last awhile -- solutions that help people beyond ourselves, beyond the folks we know and like, beyond the current generation.

Blame is easy, but it isn't cheap. Good thing is, when the bill comes due, it is usually far enough down the pike that we can blame it on someone else.


/endrant

OH, and btw? Both consortiums [ETA: Link Link*]are monitoring media for any mentions of their names, products, and more specifically people posting up test questions and answers :) (That last one MIGHT be justifiable. Snapchatting or tweeting a test question or answer is today's equivalent of letting your neighbor cheat off your test.)

So, "Hi Pearson."
*please, be careful with the links inside the last provided link. There is a blog cited that doxes a NJ DOE administrator. [ETA:It doesn't anymore.]
 
Last edited:

clintl

Represent.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,611
Reaction score
603
Location
Davis, CA
Fortune has the story.

Third from the bottom in literacy, dead last in basic math, and in a four way tie for the bottom (with the Slovak Republic, Ireland, and Poland) in smart use of technology.

It's good to know the massive investment in education and the about-to-implode College Loan Bubble has worked out so well. :sarcasm

Just what are kids learning in school these days?

There is no massive investment in education. Most of the money being spent is for salaries (which are not that great), books (a new set maybe every 7-10 years), and building maintenance (also, depending on where you are, possibly barely enough to keep the buildings upright).

There's precious little left over for the use of technology, let alone the smart use of technology. And as for basic classroom supplies, we get less than $2 a year per student. That's why you have teachers spending hundreds of dollars of their own money just so they have what they need to do their jobs, in addition to asking for parent donations. I probably spend about $1000 a year on my class. Which reminds me - I have to buy another box of paper this weekend.

Massive investment? A massive lie.

As for why our students aren't doing better - do those countries have huge populations of students who don't speak the country's language as their native language? I thought not. That's a big factor. There's a huge population of students that need to be taught English in addition to all of those other things.

Also, I have some significant reservations about the value of international comparisons on tests. No two countries teach exactly the same things in exactly the same ways - so if you're not controlling for test bias, the test results mean nothing.
 

Amadan

Banned
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
8,649
Reaction score
1,623
"Computers in every classroom" and the assumption that every student needs a laptop or a tablet to be "prepared for the modern world" is one of the culprits, IMO.

I have seen this myself about Millennials - they pride themselves on being more tech-savvy than their elders (ouch, it hurts to think of myself as "the older generation"), but the thing is, we actually had to learn how to use technology. A lot of "tech-savvy" Millennials are tech-savvy only in that they always have the newest devices and are constantly tracking the latest memes. When it comes to actually knowing how to make productive use of technology, troubleshooting it, or creating with it, if there isn't an app for that, they are clueless.

This is a generalization, of course. Certainly there are lots of smart young people who really are cutting edge technologists, but I roll my eyes at the equation of "Knows how to use a smart phone to read Twitter" with "tech-savvy."
 

regdog

The Scavengers
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
58,075
Reaction score
21,013
Location
She/Her
You mean the generation that believes Kayne West is going to be the making of some unknown musician named Paul McCartney doesn't know much. What a complete and utter shock.
 

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
15,599
Reaction score
2,471
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Website
www.annazabo.com
I would juuuuust point out that there are very likely Millennials on AW.

Something to remember about when ranting about them.

(I think I'm generation X? My parents weren't baby boomers, though... they were born just before the US entered WWII.)
 

buz

edits all posts at least four times
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
5,147
Reaction score
2,040
I would juuuuust point out that there are very likely Millennials on AW.

Yes, but I think Kanye West is the smartest and the prettiest and I'm also totally stupid. And entitled! WHERE ARE ALL THE TITLES I DESERVE
 

clintl

Represent.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,611
Reaction score
603
Location
Davis, CA
I would juuuuust point out that there are very likely Millennials on AW.

Something to remember about when ranting about them.

(I think I'm generation X? My parents weren't baby boomers, though... they were born just before the US entered WWII.)

That's a good point.

Also, my observations, from working with about 150 of them directly every day, is that they are just as intelligent and talented as any previous generation, and they are going to do just fine when it's their turn to run things. There are a lot of truly amazing kids out there, and the stereotypes of the generation don't fit them.

Well, other than them being unable to detach their cell phones from their hands. But that seems to true of previous generations now, too.
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,643
Reaction score
4,090
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
Just what are kids learning in school these days?



  • That "your best" is all that's required, even if it means you fail.
  • That despite experience levels, everyone should be treated equally and paid equally.
  • That showing up is equal to working hard and deserves recognition, praise, and a raise on a regular basis.
  • That ideas are more important than implementation.
  • That when all else fails, let someone else do it because that's who's been doing it all along.
  • That opinions are inflammatory and create strife, therefore go along with whatever keeps the peace. You can still maintain your beliefs without acting on them.
And that's not a dig against millenials, so much as it is the overly cautious ways kids are being taught in many (not all) public schools.
 

tjwriter

Emerging Anew
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
11,983
Reaction score
3,256
Location
Out of My Mind
Website
www.kidscoffeechaos.wordpress.com
Oh, I am just inside the cusp of the Millennial range. We don't treat paying for schooling like it is an investment, which to me, it most definitely is. When my 3rd grader reports that she spent a portion of time before iSTEP strictly learning for the test instead of learning new materials, there's a problem. I remember standardized testing when I was a that age and it wasn't a big deal. There's a problem when parents are so absorbed in their own lives/trying to make ends meet/whatever the issue may be that they won't/can't spend time educating their children.

What I'm getting at is that there is a variety of cultural/societal factors that have shifted us away from where we should be and in my experience, we keep trying to slap metrics-based bandages on a wound bleeding with arterial spray instead of structurally fixing the issue.

I consider myself extraordinarily lucky that I came from a decent school system and my children go to a terrific school.

ETA: Sorry if that seems disjointed. I have a 4 yr old begging me for "vanilla" (ice cream) all in my face.
 
Last edited:

juniper

Always curious.
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
Messages
4,129
Reaction score
675
Location
Forever on the island
Williebee said:
This year? They are learning how to take tests.

When did that all start? The standardized testing.

I don't remember many, if any, of those types of tests in middle or high school. Only thing was the AP test for college credit, and the SAT and ACT. But I may be remembering wrong.
 
Last edited:

Ari Meermans

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
12,861
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Not where you last saw me.
Blaming Millennials for the situation is childish logic, at best.

No, you can't and shouldn't blame the Millennials. Intelligence, aptitude, talent: yep, they have it. For the reasons already mentioned, and others, too, our educational system has failed them. Skills must be taught and education here has been other-focused. This is the first generation in a very long time that is having to seriously bootstrap themselves to succeed. And if we keep going in this nonsensical way, future generations will have it progressively worse.
 

JalexM

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
213
Reaction score
9
It's weird my generation is being called the least skilled compared to other countries but have the most degrees compared to the previous generations. So obviously going to a tech school is the answer
 
Last edited:

tjwriter

Emerging Anew
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
11,983
Reaction score
3,256
Location
Out of My Mind
Website
www.kidscoffeechaos.wordpress.com
It makes you wonder if education has taken a wrong turn somewhere doesn't it? As my kids get more into the system, I say the bureaucracy around education has, though most teachers still strive to do right by their students.
 

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
20,569
Reaction score
4,814
Location
youtu.be/QRruBVFXjnY
Website
www.ifoundaknife.com
When did that all start? The standardized testing.

I don't remember many, if any, of those types of tests in middle or high school. Only thing was the AP test for college credit, and the SAT and ACT. But I may be remembering wrong.

Some, maybe many, point the finger at No Child Left Behind (NCLB). But NCLB, signed into law in 2002, was actually a new version of several previous acts.

At any one of those points, most recently NCLB, we could have started righting this ship. Why haven't we? That takes me back to my rant above. :)

It is a decades long road down this particular rabbit hole. For example, from this pdf link:

Life Magazine—1958
In 1958, there was not the plethora of magazine choices for consumers
as there are today. The staple of the day was Life magazine.
With its wide distribution, Life did a three-part series on the “crisis
in American education.” Overall, the series concluded that teachers
were “wretchedly overworked, underpaid, and disregarded” (“Crisis
in American Education,” 1958). Two other key points in the series
should resonate with what NCLB requires: The articles stated that
teachers did not have enough time to plan lessons and a “discouraging
number of them are incompetent.”
Those two points became part of NCLB’s teacher quality provisions.
First, there are funds in Title II to provide research-based
professional development to improve the quality of teachers and
principals. Second, teachers are expected to meet highly qualified
provisions set by each state that include at least a bachelor’s
degree, full state certification, and demonstrated subject knowledge
competency in the courses they teach. It seems ironic that
these same issues that were important in 1958 are still being discussed
in the same context today, half a century later.
 
Last edited:

Xelebes

Delerium ex Ennui
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
14,205
Reaction score
884
Location
Edmonton, Canada
Some, maybe many, point the finger at No Child Left Behind (NCLB). But NCLB, signed into law in 2002, was actually a new version of several previous acts.

Another point it raises is the apparent militarisation of education and focus on making the issue of education an issue of defense. The extension of the economic argument for education stems from either the outgrowth of the militarisation or the similarity of said mechanism. I haven't read any commentary on say Canada's education system where the focus or the impetus for education has been a concern of defense.
 

asroc

Alex
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
1,537
Reaction score
293
Yes, but I think Kanye West is the smartest and the prettiest and I'm also totally stupid. And entitled! WHERE ARE ALL THE TITLES I DESERVE

I know, right? I forwarded fifteen memes today and they still expect me to go to work to get money! (I don't actually know how to use my computer or my phone though, so I might have done it wrong. Honestly, without this app, I'd be completely lost.) When I was a kid we got a trophy every day just for going to school! (Also if we didn't show, because otherwise it would hurt our feelings.)
But now everything is soooo haaaarrrdd! If only I was smart and hardworking like the generation that came before us. Them with their booming economy, making a living wage with only a high school diploma and inexplicably inferior genetic material after 1980...
 

robeiae

Touch and go
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
46,262
Reaction score
9,912
Location
on the Seven Bridges Road
Website
thepondsofhappenstance.com
American Millennials are among the world's least skilled

This is why we need universal basic income...




As to the blame here, for some of it Don is in the right ballpark, imo. The more the Federal government has involved itself in education, the worse the results have been.

Beyond that, I think the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of parents. Too many parents across the last several decades have failed to provide the right kinds of incentives for their kids. Instead of raising kids who know life is something of a challenge, they've raised kids who essentially think everything should just fall in place.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
I don't really think we're comparing apples to apples, though. The US only gave the test in English (!); included illegal immigrants, foreigners and other key categories of folks that other countries left out of the target population*; and our response rate was huge compared to many countries.

* Like institutionalized folks not being counted. A country's group-home or orphanage, etc. sort of structure could affect that very much. And then I don't get why some 'non-institutional special dwellings' were left out of some countries' targets (or even what that means. Projects? Halfway houses? ???).

"Exclusions from target population" pic
http://asset.keepeek-cache.com/medias/domain21/_pdf/media1480/234075-9schpc3h67/large/8.jpg

"Acheived response rates and population coverage" pic
http://asset.keepeek-cache.com/medias/domain21/_pdf/media1480/234075-9schpc3h67/large/12.jpg

The whole paper (chapters) I'm using as a source:
http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asse...the-quality-of-data_9789264204027-6-en#page17

eta: And I might get back to the Duke game instead of following up here if it looks like they have a chance of losing :D

eta2: Here is the language chart pic, too, for convenience:
http://asset.keepeek-cache.com/medias/domain21/_pdf/media1480/234075-9schpc3h67/large/9.jpg
 
Last edited: