The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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ResearchGuy

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From my understanding, the people that sign with PA don't have agents and instead query directly to PA themselves . . .
That's what I've observed locally. Folks heard about PA (sometimes from acquaintances or friends who were shilling on PA's behalf) and contacted PA directly (or with the aid of a more computer-savvy person in at least one case). The ones I have seen have been clueless or maybe have just given up in frustration after too many rejections. Mostly clueless, I think, and taken in by what they've heard from the shills/dupes (willingly suspending disbelief, if nothing else).

--Ken
 

Afinerosesheis

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BUT, many PA authors are very, very new to the business and have no clue what half of PA's contract acutally means, or who to ask about it.


Exactly. I believe the majority just want to see their work "published". That's it. PA (according to their site) allows them to believe this is a good way to go. It isn't until later that these authors learn a valuable lesson.
 

jamiehall

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When discussion disintegrates to acridity, it’s time to disengage. I did that the other night. Mistakenly, I thought my exit would calm the waters.

I was upset at the time, but I now think you did the right thing. Thank you for giving us a time-out.

Contrary to accusations made, I have not suggested that my experience with PA was the norm. I haven’t a clue what the norm is. It was simply my experience—nothing more, nothing less.

Thank you for saying so. Now, hopefully, that conflict can be put to rest.

One obnoxious poster accused me of being paid by Victor Cretella. Prior to joining AW, I had never heard of Cretella.

Yes, that was out of line, and he apologized for it shortly after. I hope you will accept his apology.

Certainly, there are people on this thread willing to engage in calm, dispassionate, reasoned arguments. They have my respect.

I have been trying to do this. I hope I've succeeded.

By the way, welcome back!

:welcome:
 

DaveKuzminski

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I do not know of any legitimate agents that will sign a client's work with PublishAmerica. I do know of some questionable agents that charge upfront fees who will sign a client's work with PA. In light of that, your agent was right to opt out and clearly knows much about selling to publishing companies.

And no, Dr. Rogers, no one would ever accuse you of being unwilling "to engage in calm, dispassionate, reasoned arguments." I would like to know where you got your medical degree.
 
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endless rewrite

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What my agent doesn't do is newspaper contracts.

Thanks for clearing that up. It makes sense, agents have specialist areas, mine only deals with script writing. When I've been asked to write for magazines (as a one off) or develop writing materials, I have negotiated the fee myself. It is not something I do enough of or plan on doing, to try and develop a regular market or find a specialist agent.

I am curious to know if your agent helped to negotiate your PA contract. If so it would help explain the improved terms. I'm not asking for details or demanding proof but genuinely interested to know. As you can see by the recent posts, agents and PA are not a common occurrence.
 

endless rewrite

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I'm not typing fast enough. Thanks for clearing up my second question before I asked it! (I didn't think there had been a gap)
 

JimmyD1318

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Nice to see you back Mr. Rodgers. I am sorry if things got out of hand and hope you can understand why they did. As always you are welcome here and hope you sharing your experience with PA can help others either improve their time with PA or know to avoid them.
 

Christine N.

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Yep, things that go on astonish me too, but I realize that many people don't do the research that you and I would do about such things. Others just are impatient, and when they hear long submission wait times, they become ecstatic that PA gets back so quickly, not realizing that most publishers actually read their submissions first.

Overall I'd say that we're astonished because many of us are more thorough than the average new PA author. Many are also very trusting, thinking a company would NEVER do something bad to them. Honestly, I've heard it before. It's amazing, but I don't blame them. They're nice folks who may just be guilty of being naive and thinking the world is a nicer place than it is. No shame in it.

Which is why we try really hard here to make the information about publishing accessible and easy to find.

I'm kind of surprised you couldn't or didn't find a small niche publisher for your book, even if your agent didn't negotiate it for you. I would think there would be some small press that would have been happy to do the job. But I don't know how you went about it, so I won't speculate.
 

ResearchGuy

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. . . I'm kind of surprised you couldn't or didn't find a small niche publisher for your book . . . .
Not to speak for Lane, of course . . . even a small niche publisher has to make a living. That living comes either from book sales or from author payments to the publisher.

The time and costs (editing, layout, design, and more) to get a book to print can be as much for one that might sell in the dozens or a couple hundred as for one that might sell in the thousands, without the advantage of a sharply lower cost-per-copy provided by a larger print run. (An advantage that is offset, of course, by significant cash investment up front.) Even a micro publisher who has low overhead and is willing to take on low-margin (or no-margin, or money-losing) projects has only so much time to work with, even putting bankroll aside. (Speaking from experience there. I'd take on more of those kinds of projects, but don't have the time or the money to risk. And my small-publisher friends don't, either.)

And then, from the author's point of view, there is the question of how many hundreds or thousands of hours the author has to attempt to find a willing niche publisher for an unprofitable book project. (Of course no agent would have any interest, as the agent cannot live on 15% of nothing.)

That leaves paying to be published or living with the limitations of PA's model. (Or self-publishing, which is a bad choice for most people, costly, and time consuming.)

I'm kind of surprised anyone would think it is so easy to find "a small niche publisher" for a book with a very limited market.

--Ken
 
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Christine N.

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I guess I didn't word it properly. I would have thought there would have been a market, even a small one, for the kind of book Lane wrote, with his background. He would have at least some kind of name recognition, being a columnist, and even if it was a small market, I would think a niche publisher would have seen it as a good investment.

I would have thought it would be easier for Lane than for most to go that route, was what I meant.
 

Christine N.

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I know I'm double posting, but I wanted to share a story.

A week or so ago, a PA supporter came by and told me one of my books wasn't in her local bookstore, and there was a big to-do about where she could get it.

Now, my first publisher is very small, but honest. They work hard every day. A couple of days ago, I got an e-mail from the publicity person at that publisher. First of all, yes, they HAVE one, and her job is to work with bookstore chains and to find ways to promote the catalog of said small publisher.

There was a small glitch with my ISBN when my last book came out with that publisher, last year. The publisher was going through a transition, and it fell through the cracks. It was fixed within a day of it being noticed. But that is neither here nor there for this post.

Point being, that the publicity person needed an updated press kit for that title, because she was now resubmitting it to the CHAIN BOOKSTORE BUYERS. My press kit has changed, since I've had a new release with another publisher, and I was happy to comply. She will attach a new copy of the book, plus an updated marketing plan, and try to convince the big chains to stock the book. In their stores.

So while this PA supporter may cry to the hilltops that other people's books aren't on shelves, at least my one publisher is doing everything within their power to TRY. They don't rely on the author for their income, nor do they badger me with e-mails giving me 'deals' on my own books. They WANT to sell to the public at large.

PA doesn't go to all that effort - why should they when they can sell to their own authors with little to no work on their part?

(My other publisher has a distributor, so it's not really an issue there.)
 

Christine N.

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There is, but small is not the operative word. Unique better describes it.

The book in question is an anecdotal history of criminal activity in Utah during the first half of the 20th century. It is not an area of history that lights fires nationally, and Utah is a book market unique to itself. In order to understand that, you must be conversant with the state's socio-economic-political-religious makeup.

For reasons that would be inappropriate to discuss on this thread, regional publishers were afriad of the controversay the book might generate. I was unwilling to compromise its editorial content, nor was I prepared to invest the time necessary to shop the book elsewhere. Consequently, I opted for expedience.

It's that simple. Can we move to another topic?


Actually, that was a very clear and concise explanation, and now I think I understand a bit better. Thank you very much. Nothing was meant by it except my own curiosity, which you have nicely sated.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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Robert W. Bly ("Bob Bly" the copywriter, not "Robert Bly" the poet and author of Iron John) published his book about hot dogs through PublishAmerica; he's written dozens of commercially-published books, including at least one in the "For Dummies" series.

Although I'd choose self-publishing in a "very limited niche" case like this rather than PA, I can see why someone might choose PA.
 

DaveKuzminski

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Quite likely, Vic has received a response from me as well, though he doesn't have to respond to this yet. Now it's in the court's hands.

In the meantime, Rogers, your credibility continues to erode because you made claims that you're unwilling to back up. Reminds me of the last time someone made claims only to learn not too long afterward that PA welched on their word and their contract. So much for all the negotiation that author went through. Fortunately, he found a real publisher not long after that and rebounded with new books from that new publisher. At least, he was on the way up.

So, the question you have to really ask yourself is whether you can actually trust PublishAmerica. Remember, PubliSHAMErica is a company that has libeled numerous individuals. PubliSHAMerica is a company that had violated trademarks belonging to others. PubliSHAMErica is a company that has violated copyrights. PubliSHAMerica is a company that has engaged in extortion. PubliSHAMErica is a company that doesn't honor contracts in the spirit in which they were intended as reputable companies do. PubliSHAMerica is a company that fails to pay royalties accurately as required by contract. There are more documented reasons than these, but I don't feel like reciting the entire litany. You'll just have to learn the hard way like too many PA authors before you.
 

Khazarkhum

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Rodgers, your book sounds like perfect material for one of the many Utah presses. I'm surprised they passed.
 

acrooker

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Dave,

You are single-minded. You cannot believe anything Lane says because he is unwilling to divulge his contract to you?

Sir, with all due respect , please tell us exactly how much you earn bashing PublishAmerica and how much from other sources?

We will be satisified with the figure rounded to the nearest dollar. At the end please include a copy of your Tax return for the years from 1990 and onward.

Obviously PublishAmerica is not perfect. I am not perfect and neither are you. You are not in a court here where you can demand answers of people. Why can't you simply let it go?

If Lane wished to make his contract public, he would have done so. You are badgering the fellow poster.

PublishAmerica's "high crimes and misdemeanors" pale in comparison to a few others on this planet. People have poor housing contracts--the banks have done wrong. Pharmaceutical companies kill people everyday with their untested drugs. People drive drunk and kill other people. Then there are people , believe it or not, who actually plot to kill others. They are nothing however compared to a person who has the unbridled nerve to sign a contract with PublishAmerica.

I was a respected person, a very accurate accountant until I made the mistake of writing a book.

I had never heard of all of this publishing 'snobbery." In fact I was so ignorant I thought a book consisted of a cover and some pages inside. My husband and I both worked full time to keep our kids in college.I did not want to pay anybody anything to publish my book. I didn't either.

For the record, my book has sold 170 copies plus the 85 I purchased bringing it to 255. My family and friends very willingly sprang for it. Twenty bucks isn't much to ask of a friend especially when you consider the Tupperware parties, the crystal parties, the basket parties,etc.ad naseum. It is hardly a best-seller. I don't care. As I said, I am not a writer. I am not a taxi-cab driver, an airline pilot, a doctor or a lawyer either.

Every e-mail I have received from PA has stated that it is unnecessary for me to purchase a book, but if I wish to I can. There has been no pressure on me to purchase my own book.

I would hope that your "legitimate" publishers would alllow you to purchase your own book if you so desired.

I hope there is nothing sneaky, snide or conniving about this post--it is the way I see things. Feel free to see what you wish to see--this is America--I hope.

I will stop for now (wouldn't want to flounce) Please expand your vocabulary and
quit being so suspicious of folks. You will be happier and live longer. Look on the bright side of life.


I do not care what Lane's contract says, or why he signed with them That remains his business--not mine.

Thank God for PublishAmerica!



Thanks,


Alice The "duck lady"

PS This post is riddled with a lack of logic, but I left it here as it seemed to fit in. Don't even begin to try to correct it, lest you have a brain attack!
 
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dpaterso

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AW forums are not the place for this kind of heckling and badgering behavior. If you feel the overwhelming need to continue your dialogue then use the Private Message function or swap email addresses. Don't do it here, otherwise the post-eating monster might get hungry.

Alice, my post is not aimed personally at you.

-Derek
 

Christine N.

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Just when you thought it was safe to take of ignore...

That's a laugh, considering how many of us had to 'put up or shut up' over on the other board.

Not you, Lane, you weren't there. I am not aiming this at you - you've chosen to keep it private, and I can respect that. Dave is a collector of information, and he's always interesting in seeing the different ways PA does business, but he gets a little overzealous at times.

I do find it interesting that to some what's good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander. Many of us AW'ers had credentials demanded from us time and again.

Nope, no one's perfect, but PA takes it to new heights. When you're 'not perfect' on purpose, what do you call that? When you treat people like trash, and don't pay money owed, what is that called?

For the record, sure, my publishers allow me to purchase my book if I want. I get a 40% discount, if I buy one copy or a hundred. BUT BUT BUT, I NEVER EVER GET E-MAIL FROM THEM ANNOUNCING A SALE OR A SPECIAL DEAL. Allowing me to purchase any copies I might need is done as a COURTESY, not as a main point of sale or as a 'get it now before it's over!' type of high-pressure sale.

Going back and adjusting my ignore list again.
 
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ResearchGuy

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. . .
For the record, my book has sold 170 copies plus the 85 I purchased. . .
Quite respectable. Must have done something right.

If you've not rummaged around in other parts of AW, I hope you'll do so. I am esp. enjoying the threads on books folks are reading and many of those on questions of grammar, usage, and punctuation. (Ok, an odd idea of fun, but so be it.) There is lots more than the PA-related threads here (perversely fascinating as they can be).

--Ken
 

DonnaDuck

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I would hope that your "legitimate" publishers would alllow you to purchase your own book if you so desired.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't "legitimate" publishers just give you copies of your books? You don't have to pay a dime for them?
 
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