Young Writer In Need of Recommendations for a Change In Attitude About Agents

theotter said:

I tend to be an extremely cynical person because it's better to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed in people, and two, as I have stated before, I am young and immature.

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Cynicism can come with perceptiveness and insight. You're young, and you see a lot to question, and perhaps rightly so. I'd always rather work with a cynic than a blind optimist, unless that optimist was loaded with cash and sharing it every few minutes.

You're likely terrified you've spent ages on your work, wasted your time, and created a monument of self-deception that will serve only to prove that your real livelihood and avocation will have nothing to do with writing.

You need to face the reality that your fears may be warranted. You may be rejected time and again, and even laughed at and mocked. Fear is crippling. Just get the manuscript in the right hands and find out if you were really meant to be a professional welder or a heart surgeon. You have your whole life ahead of yourself, and you've started it in a fine, creative way. So, go for it.

The chances any of us will become a great or successful writer are slim and dim. The advantage some of us have is that we have other careers, lives and livelihoods. If back in the day I were 18 and convinced I had to be a writer, what an awful world I fear it would have been. Writing is art, a form of expression and thought. The appreciation and admiration of others come sparingly at best.

About agents, yes, many of us can agree on a few obvious attributes that some appear to have. There are plenty of unaccomplished, untalented agents set up by some friend or family, or sitting in some institution of learning, to read manuscripts and fire off wasteful, unhelpful rejections, or who look only for a given species, and you'll find them all over Twitter and Facebook, so if you're wasting time reading posts and tweets from subpar agents, you'll only make yourself even more cynical. You're not them, and good for it, but there are also great agents out there.

I'll just repeat. You've got your whole life ahead of yourself, and your future may or may not be in writing, and you need to face the facts up front. So, confront your fears, get the manuscript out, and head off into the future that's yours.

Cochinay said:

There are plenty of unaccomplished, untalented agents set up by some friend or family, or sitting in some institution of learning, to read manuscripts and fire off wasteful, unhelpful rejections, or who look only for a given species, and you'll find them all over Twitter and Facebook
.

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I'm not sure that's a fair characterization. First of all, they don't get paid by rejections, they get paid by signed work, so they'd probably rather *not* have to reject you-- but the pure amount of people wanting to be published means that they can be picky with what they get, especially since a great deal of it is probably awful.

Also, since, again, they make money off writers, I think a bigger red flag of a terrible agent would be someone who is willing to sign anyone who can string together an email.

Answer this question: the agencies and publishers we are consistently warned about as being scams, are they quick to accept work or do they reject most of the people who come to them?

A great way to get to know agents as people? Twitter. Seriously. It's the reason I got a twitter in the first place. I have found agents I would love to be bffs with... and some that I think are (secretly) terrible people that I'd hate working with.

Honestly though, the whole querying process has made me stronger and a better, more humble person.

On rejection: it sucks. It really really sucks. My first rejection made me sob uncontrollably. (To be fair, it was a bad day and I was super anxious). But still. I eventually stopped crying, realized the world wasn't over and kept going. Also, setting aside a book to write/query another isn't failure. You gotta remember that this is a business, and there are risk factors involved. Sometimes you gotta write a book to get you published before anyone will let you publish that amazing House of Leaves-style time traveling fantasy paranormal star crossed romance between a Dragon and an Orc.

Maybe not nearly as important, but some trivia: In the pic that Otter posted, looks like Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Ed Meese, James Baker, Walter Cronkite and two others I can't place. OMG is that James Brady (who just died) tucked back behind Cronkite? Don't know the guy up front or far back. Oh, well. . . .

Antonin said:

House of Leaves-style.

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I see what you did there.

JHFC said:

I see what you did there.

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I couldn't help myself. :3

slhuang said:

eta: Oh, and as to your final question -- no, agents don't exist to judge others. They exist to get really excited about books and help those books they're really excited about succeed. Most of their job isn't reading slush, it's helping books they LOVE get out to publishers and then readers, and doesn't that sound like an awesome job?

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Exactly! I think that work of agents isn't about critique only. Agents choose books they really like and that have high chances of being published and recognized, that's it. So, get to know these "privileged people" and who knows, maybe your attitude will change.

If you want to try to understand better what may be going through an agent's mind when they're reading the slush, you could always try to recreate the experience (this was originally suggested in the Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread, full of excellent advice). Pretend you're an agent who can take on one author. Go to a fanfiction site, or a site like fictionpress.com. Read 50 stories. Which would you pick?

This exercise taught me two things:
1) Reading through large amounts of slush is hard work, and judging it is not fun.
2) For me, the one I liked best didn't have the strongest writing, but I thought the idea was by far the most original. It was not particularly popular with other readers. People really do just have different tastes.

I think our young doubter has gone AWOL.

When you're old enough to drink, go to conferences and hang out in the bar.

I used to think agents were unreachable icons who lived in New York and only rejected people. UNTIL I went to a conference. Sure, you can meet them in the blue pencil meetings you have with them, or in your pitch.

But meet some regulars to the conference? That's a valuable skill. If those regulars know the agents and hang out with them in the bar? That's gold. There was one agent in Surrey (British Columbia) I really wanted to meet who was up from California.

I happened to fall into a group in the bar and she came over because she was repping one of them. I ended up in a hotel room with a bunch of regulars (and said agent), sipping wine and having a marvelous time. She didn't seem like an agent so much anymore. She was just another fun-loving conference attendee I was gabbing with.

Another agent? Saw her on a panel. Had been considering her, but after that? No way. She didn't like writers who described things in terms of food (I was picturing one big scene in my book where I did that), and she had this way of frowning that reminded me of my mother, whom I don't get a long with).

During our lunches and dinners, we had oodles of round tables and writers, agents, editors, and conference folks all sat down together. It made for GREAT conversation. I found out one agent and I were both big Iggy Pop fans. She didn't rep my genre, so the pressure was off. We just chatted " like normal people."

Try it. If you can get some funds together, conferences are an easy way to change your opinion on agents and get on with your writing career.

Are you going to get rejected if you submit to an agent/publisher?

Yes.

Read these numbers again, and yes, numbers mean something.

...Also, here's a number or two for the Nelson Agency: In 2012, they had 36,000 queries (query letters) come through their office. Of those 36,000...

98 people were asked to send the full manuscript.
Of those 98...

7 were offered representation...

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Yes, this is interesting, since only 7 in 36,000 were offered representation.

If these numbers are correct - and I have no reason to doubt them - that means 35,993 were rejected (yes I know 36,000 was a round number... just bear with me)

I don't know how many people the Nelson Agency has reading submissions, but if they have 200 people doing that, each person has to read and evaluate 180 submissions a year. That gives them one day to read your work and make a decision if they are really focused at their job. No one will read 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, so 180 submissions in a year would be a lot of work for any one person.

Work the numbers.

I suspect they don't have 200 people reading submissions.

If they have 20 people reading submissions, then they each have to read 1800 submissions, or 35 a week every single week with no vacations....

Somewhere in the middle you will find the real answer, and you will understand the need to "grab" the interest of the reviewer in the first paragraph. They may not even read more than that.

Seriously. How much can any one person appreciate your work if they are looking at that many manuscript submissions. Are you one of the 98 asked to send in your full manuscript? Yeah! That's great. Celebrate, but remember that only 7% of those were offered representation as well.

Don't worry, the rejection won't be personal. It will more than likely be a form letter that may or may not have your name in the "Dear Writer" address line - just to process the volume - assuming you hear back from them at all.

I can assure you that many of these submissions never ever get read. They are the wrong genre for the agency at this time, or the wrong length, or the wrong type of leading character, or the wrong whatever - because these guys are looking for books THEY can SELL.

They are not looking for great authors to represent for the rest of their careers, they are looking for products they can sell. The fact that the product comes with an author attached - who may be able to turn out another product they can sell - is a bonus.

So.... get your manuscript out there if you plan to take the trade publishing route, and prepare to be rejected.

Read some of the rejection threads on this forum, and you will see some people with literally hundreds of rejections. Some of the stories are downright disheartening. Others are quite uplifting however, and may motivate you to submit today!

There are success stories on these and other forums, and you may in fact be one of those and be back here in six weeks telling us about your 5 figure advance and commitment for two more books.

Step on the treadmill. There is no other way to do it if you expect to be trade published.

And just to make the 99% number seem more reasonable, the rejection rate quoted above is actually a 99.98% rejection rate if 35,993 out of 36,000 submissions were rejected...

Don't let this stop you however. If you plan to be trade published, this is just the next step in the process so step up.

Pessimistic enough for you? I hope so. That way your success will be that much sweeter.

Agents look at works and think then about what they have the connections to sell. They are good people operating within parameters set before them. It's always a crap shoot. Don't think badly about them. Go read the Miss Snark blog.

Also, look up Dr. Seuss, and how many times he was rejected. That will give you hope.

...Also, here's a number or two for the Nelson Agency: In 2012, they had 36,000 queries (query letters) come through their office. Of those 36,000...

98 people were asked to send the full manuscript.
Of those 98...

7 were offered representation...

Click to expand...

And just to make the 99% number seem more reasonable, the rejection rate quoted above is actually a 99.98% rejection rate if 35,993 out of 36,000 submissions were rejected…

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If I may just add something that I think it worth pointing out, if only to counter the cynicism and expectation of failure, is that while those numbers are scary, they are slightly misleading. In a way. Depending on how you look at them.

While a lot of success is down to luck (i.e. being in the right place at the right time), not all submissions are equal, and just because 99.98% of people were rejected does not actually mean you have a 0.02% chance of being accepted.

As we often hear from editors and agents, a huge percentage of submissions (I've heard people say 90% or higher) are total garbage. Of the 36,000 submissions, how many are from writers who have taken the time to learn their craft, got feedback on the work, edited it, etc etc? I'm sure there are a lot who have done those things, but it's probably fair to say that a huge percentage (going off what editors and agents say) have not done those things.

Basically, my point is you don't really have to compete with 36,000 people, because with talent and hard work, you can probably quite easily be better than 95% of them.

Jeeves is right.

Most of the people here will be part of that top five per cent.

There's a good breakdown in Slushkiller.

Thewitt said:

Are you going to get rejected if you submit to an agent/publisher?

Yes.

Read these numbers again, and yes, numbers mean something.

Yes, this is interesting, since only 7 in 36,000 were offered representation.

If these numbers are correct - and I have no reason to doubt them - that means 35,993 were rejected (yes I know 36,000 was a round number... just bear with me)

I don't know how many people the Nelson Agency has reading submissions, but if they have 200 people doing that, each person has to read and evaluate 180 submissions a year. That gives them one day to read your work and make a decision if they are really focused at their job. No one will read 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, so 180 submissions in a year would be a lot of work for any one person.

Work the numbers.

I suspect they don't have 200 people reading submissions.

If they have 20 people reading submissions, then they each have to read 1800 submissions, or 35 a week every single week with no vacations....

Somewhere in the middle you will find the real answer, and you will understand the need to "grab" the interest of the reviewer in the first paragraph. They may not even read more than that.

Seriously. How much can any one person appreciate your work if they are looking at that many manuscript submissions. Are you one of the 98 asked to send in your full manuscript? Yeah! That's great. Celebrate, but remember that only 7% of those were offered representation as well.

Don't worry, the rejection won't be personal. It will more than likely be a form letter that may or may not have your name in the "Dear Writer" address line - just to process the volume - assuming you hear back from them at all.

I can assure you that many of these submissions never ever get read. They are the wrong genre for the agency at this time, or the wrong length, or the wrong type of leading character, or the wrong whatever - because these guys are looking for books THEY can SELL.

They are not looking for great authors to represent for the rest of their careers, they are looking for products they can sell. The fact that the product comes with an author attached - who may be able to turn out another product they can sell - is a bonus.

So.... get your manuscript out there if you plan to take the trade publishing route, and prepare to be rejected.

Read some of the rejection threads on this forum, and you will see some people with literally hundreds of rejections. Some of the stories are downright disheartening. Others are quite uplifting however, and may motivate you to submit today!

There are success stories on these and other forums, and you may in fact be one of those and be back here in six weeks telling us about your 5 figure advance and commitment for two more books.

Step on the treadmill. There is no other way to do it if you expect to be trade published.

And just to make the 99% number seem more reasonable, the rejection rate quoted above is actually a 99.98% rejection rate if 35,993 out of 36,000 submissions were rejected...

Don't let this stop you however. If you plan to be trade published, this is just the next step in the process so step up.

Pessimistic enough for you? I hope so. That way your success will be that much sweeter.

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You're talking about queries.

A hundred and eighty queries in a year isn't any work at all. Plenty of agents get through more than 35 queries a day, in the midst of doing their other work, no problem. It'd be no hardship at all to get through 35 queries a week, or, really, a day, if we're talking about queries that come in to agencies blind.

You're talking like they take hours to deal with. The majority can be binned in minutes. There's a *reason* for a request rate like you see, and it's not an abnormal one.

The third bolded? Same thing. It's a job. I don't want an agent to be by bestest buddy and think I'm an artiste. I want an agent to sell hard, and for the most money he or she can possibly wring out of a house, so we both make lots of money.

Hello. I'm seventeen and I've completed my first novel too.

Sending it off is terrifying at first, because you know your work will be judged and inevitably rejected. The first rejection I received was crushing, however you develop a thick skin very quickly, and ultimately if you are prepared to work with agents your chance of success is much greater. My advice would be to find seven to ten agents, prepare a query letter, and just click send without thinking about it. It may seem daunting but the truth is, you just get on with life, with the knowledge that your work is finally 'out there'. When your work is 'out there' there is every possibility that someone could love it. If it isn't then there is no chance at all.