Since we're talking definitions here...

Suspense is just that. From what I can gather you follow the protag through the story and go from one threat to the next with the suspense growing each time and not knowing what the outcome will be or who the culprit is. With thriller, you know the protag, and the antagonist. You know what's at stake and follow each as they vie for their respective goals. The plot can seesaw this way then that, one minute the protag's on top, next the antag is. At the end one of them wins. That's my take, anyway.

I'm not sure what I have written. The novel is set in Miami, Florida in three time periods, 1567, 1926, and 2005. The opening is set in 2005 at the site of a downtown parking lot where there is an archaeological investigation going on.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197108

I open the story in 2005 from the perspective of Jack Cerro. He is working at the dig in hopes of finding out what happened to his father who disappeared eighty years prior. He was last seen entering the historic hotel that they are excavating. This seems to be a decent mystery opening even if it lacks a body.

Helping him is his "granddaughter", Louisa Ramirez. She is twenty and suffering from amnesia. The 2005 section of the novel is primarily told from her POV. In truth she is immortal and has lived here since 1567 when she was shipwrecked among the local Indians.

She was also the last person to see Jack's father alive. Jack keeps her around in hopes that something she finds at the archaeological investigation will stir her memory.

The 1567 and 1926 sections of the story come off more as thrillers than mysteries. They do inform the present by giving clues to what is going on. So in short, the 2005 section is a mystery. The rest is not.

Wrombola, sounds like you have a paranormal since she's immortal. Paranormal thriller, perhaps?

Cealarenne said:

Suspense is just that. From what I can gather you follow the protag through the story and go from one threat to the next with the suspense growing each time and not knowing what the outcome will be or who the culprit is. With thriller, you know the protag, and the antagonist. You know what's at stake and follow each as they vie for their respective goals. The plot can seesaw this way then that, one minute the protag's on top, next the antag is. At the end one of them wins. That's my take, anyway.

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Hmm, my novel concerns a freelance assassin as protagonist, her client as antagonist, who tries to ambush her. There's romance involved as she's in a budding relationship, but we already know who the culprit is. And the Dutch police and DEA investigate the crimes, so there police procedure involved. And she kills with knives, so there's gore. Suspense, anyone?

I like Jeseymore's explanation. With that, pretty much any old Alistair MacLean novel would be a cozy. I've shared a draft of my first book with an editor that described it as a cozy in part because it's set on a remote island with limited contact with the outside world.

genre confusion

Great thread. I've now followed all the links to blogs that clarify the differences between mysteries, suspense, thrillers, crime fiction, cozies, etc., and I still don't know how to characterize what I've written.

In my queries (I'm currently seeking representation) I usually just call my novel a mystery, but sometimes lately a mystery/thriller, which is probably cheating.

My protagonist is an amateur sleuth who is of interest to the police because of her connection to the murder victim (the murder happens in Chapter 1). To clear her name, she begins looking for clues. She gets into a lot of trouble; there is violence, so it is not a cozy. The police detective on the case is also a major character; protagonist is a thorn in his side.

Eventually she uncovers a complex blackmail scheme and a murder more than 20 years old. At about 3/4 of the way through the book, she (and the reader) know who the murderer is, and the thriller aspects of the story emerge as she does what she has to do to stop the murderer from killing anyone else. The climax of the story is a dramatic confrontation between them.

There is also humor and a lighthearted approach between - and even during - some of the tensest scenes. Not that I would call it a humorous mystery, because that makes it sound tame. Definitely not a caper. There is also a romantic subplot, but I keep it on the side while keeping the mystery front and center.

Should I just call this a mystery? A mystery/thriller? A frolicsome mystery? A work of crime fiction?

Thanks for any and all input!

Hi flygal. Here's what I've done in the same situation: find out what the agent you're researching likes best and call it that. At any rate, you'll find that opinions differ even among professionals, so don't sweat it too much. Either one is fine. I think the labels have loosened some over the years.

OK, this is confusing as hell. So, here's what I belive is a fairly reasonable attempt. Please add your two cents.

Dan Brown - Da Vinci Code = Thriller
Martin Cruse Smith - Corky Park = Mystery
Vampire books (most) = Horror

Seem right?

BaldEagle said:

OK, this is confusing as hell. So, here's what I belive is a fairly reasonable attempt. Please add your two cents.

Dan Brown - Da Vinci Code = Thriller
Martin Cruse Smith - Corky Park = Mystery
Vampire books (most) = Horror

Seem right?

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Hmmm,

Dan Brown - Da Vinci Code = Historical Mystery Garbage
Martin Cruz Smith - Gorky Park = Police Procedural
Vampire books (most) = Romantic drivel with fangs.

I tried to leave out adjectives and adverbs. So...I'll stick with my nouns.

I wrote a short story a few years ago that I've been thinking of turning into a novel. It started out as a Western, but it quickly took on the air of a thriller as I progressed. Would it be considered exclusively a Western by agents? I wonder this because the market is much better for M/T/S than it is for Westerns.

Knightrunner, how unique-sounding that is! I'd be tempted to send a batch of queries marketing it as a "Western thriller" and see what happens.

In the end, I'm guessing you're going to have to stick with Western, but it's worth a try, IMO. Keep us posted!

heyjude said:

Knightrunner, how unique-sounding that is! I'd be tempted to send a batch of queries marketing it as a "Western thriller" and see what happens.

In the end, I'm guessing you're going to have to stick with Western, but it's worth a try, IMO. Keep us posted!

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I will definitely keep everyone posted. I wrote the short story back in 2006, but it's been bouncing around in my mind a lot lately. I really wish I could market it as a Western Thriller; that would be ideal. But I do think you're right-it will probably be shelved in the Western section (assuming it gets published!).

I don't know what mine is either. I call it "adventure" but there's no "adventure" genre, and it gets put in thriller. But it's an around the world treasure hunt type thing, clues have to be found and solved, and no one gets killed, although people get chased and threatened... I haven't figured it out yet!

jsw! Good to have you here. Yep, you guys definitely get lumped in with thrillers.

Mystery often starts with the crime and deals with consequences (think Columbo or Agatha Christie.)

Suspense usually ends with the major crime, with it's anticipation hanging over the reader's head throughout.

Can't figure out my genre/subgenre. For a large chunk of the book, my protagonist doesn't know if a crime has been committed (or even what the crime might be) or if she is in danger. She has suspicions, though, and feels she has to investigate. She finds crimes and, in the end, she is in danger. Meanwhile, she has this romantic/sexual tension thing going on with someone who may or may not be involved in the illegalities.

I would call it romantic suspense BUT -- I don't know if the danger is apparent for enough of the book. Plus, at least some sources place this as a subgenre of romance, which requires a happy ending. But the romance isn't resolved for sure in this book. (It is the first of a trilogy.) Readers won't even know for sure if the guy is innocent or not at the end of book one. (Don't worry -- one set of evildoers are vanquished. Readers just don't know who might have worked with them.)

My first preference was for romantic mystery BUT -- some listings of mystery subgenres don't list such a beastie. I don't want agents thinking I'm making up a subgenre. And, I don't know, wouldn't the "romantic" imply a happy ending here as well?

Perhaps I could call it a mystery and be done with it? My query is pretty clear there are romance elements. But maybe too much for a straight mystery...

What do you folks think? As you can tell, I've been cycling through the possibilities and never stay satisfied with any alternative for long.

Of course, I could call it "fiction" -- or even nothing at all --query those who handle mystery, suspense, and romance, and let them figure out how to market it.

Added in editing: another concern is that if I say "romantic" in the genre description, part of the mystery raised by my query is answered, isn't it? I want agents wondering what happens and requesting pages, rather than thinking,"Oh, it's romantic, so the guy must turn out okay."

Hathor, I'd call it a mystery. Many, many books have romantic elements. If it's not expected, it won't be a surprise.

OTOH, if the agent you're interested in likes suspense, or romantic suspense, call it that. Give 'em what they want! Ask a bunch of people what it is after they read it, you'll probably get a bunch of different responses. There aren't as many hard and fast rules in MTS for genre labeling as there used to be, it seems.

Thanks. You make a lot of sense.

Quick, tell my husband that!

heyjude said:

Quick, tell my husband that!

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Hey, uh, heyjude's husband, she makes a lot of sense! Quick enough?

In an effort to get a little writing done I've been thinking about a definition and this thread seemed as close as anything around here, though off topic with the rest of the thread. So HJ feel free to split this off if you feel it necessary. I also looked in other forums, though not that hard, so if this concept should be moved feel free as well, but I didn't see any forums for "trivial and pedantic academic discussions".

With that preface, I was trying to come up with a pithy academic definition to answer the following two questions:

What is a story?

What is a critique of a story?

My response will be given below, but I'm curious as to how others would define a story and a critique of a story.

If you're not interested in throwing out a definition, can you live with mine?

Here are my responses. I put them in white in hopes you'd think about your responses first before letting my answers sway your thoughts. You can read them easily if you highlight the text.

A story is an event or series of events that force a change in a noun.

A critique of a story is a 1) a short recap of the story without giving away the resolution, followed by, 2) an opinion as to the effectiveness of the story due to its presentation and/or execution of the resolution.

Seems like a fine place to have the discussion. I typed my answers before reading yours:

A story is the telling of a series of events in an entertaining fashion.

A crit is the objective analysis of the story.

I don't necessarily agree that a crit must recap the story, and I might quibble about the "resolution" part (only b/c resolution is only one part of the whole) but otherwise yours sound good.

Thanks HJ. I like the story definition I have.

Yours I would quibble is not "academic" enough. The "in an entertaining fashion" part is totally unnecessary. Just read any book academics like.

But that does beg the question: Can a series of events become a story without some sort of change? I honestly don't think so.

I am very interested in people's definitions of what a critique is. Mine is not elegant.

I threw in the part about the recap because I am thinking in terms of a professional critique rather than just an opinion of a story.

Huummm. I don't know about the recap either as part of a critique, unless the academic part of it you are talking about is like when students do book reports. I think of a critique more like a book review. A crit is still an opinion, but I think of it more as an educated opinion based on the reviewer's analysis of the elements of the story be it plot, style, flow, etc. and the execution thereof.