LazyDay Publishing

LazyDay,

One thing wee baby writers are taught at Viable Paradise is not to engage the critics in fights because it harms your reputation. One thing customer service personal are taught is not to argue with the customer because it harms your reputation. One thing tech people are taught is not to bash the business units because it harms your reputation. (See the pattern here?)

When your reputation is damaged, it makes it that much harder to do business properly and get the credibility you need to get new business. I know so many professions, aside from publishing, where the people involved know this for a fact. Reputation is everything. If you feel like you're being attacked, fighting back is best done by answering questions and showing why you're so good at what you do, not by responding with passive aggressive insults.

When you punch holes in the hull of your ship while you're still at dry dock, how do you expect to sail without mishap?

I am a published writer. I've seen good and bad in the industry. I'm not as experienced as writers like Uncle Jim, but I have been published in several different genres. Usually, I like giving people the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to do so, however, when you're busy sabotaging yourself by your actions.

I do hope that you make it. That would be fantastic. In the meantime, there are two things you may have forgotten or just not understood about the publishing industry.

1) The publishing industry is like other industries in that one thing drives it. Word of mouth. One customer that likes you won't be as vocal as one customer that dislikes you. Same situation as people you work with.

2) The publishing industry is different than most industries in that this is a *small* community. Everyone "knows" everyone, or how to spread the word to everyone. The wee baby author you insult today may be tomorrow's top editor that can blacklist you so fast your company loses everything.

I see that you removed the blog post in question. That's a start. But here's your chance to show us that you mean what you say and that you can do what you say. Actions speak louder than words. I wish you good luck with your launch. In the meantime, I think I shall do as several people have recommended and wait to see how well you do with what you have.

A question that just came to mind.
You mentioned that you specialize in sales. In order to sell something, you need to convince the customer, that the product is good. My question is: How will you convince a customer to buy a book, if you can't even convince an author to sign with you?

Will you display the same attitude to a customer the way you did with an author? A customer will also ask questions. They want to know more about the product before they invest in it.

Just an observation.

So LazyDay came here and started their own thread, and became upset when authors asked tough questions, then proceeded to exact their revenge on their own blog by trashing the very site they willingly came to.

Um. Here is an open suggestion to anyone considering advertising their new enterprise on AW: Be prepared to answer pointed, intelligent, relevant questions. Publishing isn't for those with weak intestines or hearts, and if you bristle at the notion of having your feet held to the fire, then do everyone a favor and take up cow tossing.

Trust me, your life will get a lot more uncomfortable than answering thoughtful questions. This business is weency and word travels fast. I can't think of a better way to tarnish your own growing reputation than trying to tell the world AW is full of beans.

LazyDay: We have a file of freelance artists for whatever genre if we so require. There are truly some amazing artists out there. I agree that not every artist could do Fantasy. We will cross that bridge when we find a good Fantasy, which we haven't got yet...I am reading a good Contemporary Romance though!

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Most small presses specialize. They do so because they're experienced in that particular genre, and they know what constitutes a good book. You have no experience in publishing at all, so how do you know that romance you're reading is good? What qualifications do you have that makes authors trust that you know the romance readership? You may like it, but will the romance marketplace? What relationships have you established in the romance field?

I'm a weency press, and I wouldn't know a good romance if it sat in my lap and called me "darling." I'm not qualified. However, toss me a memoir or personal journey nonfiction, and I'm your gal.

These are elements that authors need to consider when looking for a publisher, and you haven't answered the question of how you can realistically accept every genre. Instead you got defensive. How does this help establish you as someone who can get the job done?

LazyDay: What makes us stand out from the rest? Experience in business.

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This may sound impressive to you, but not to those on AW. Experience in business is only one part of the puzzle, and you haven't begun to understand the art/frustration/insanity of selling books. Publishing is like no other business because so much of it is based on establishing relationships. And those relationships will only be forged if those in the know believe you're worth their time and expertise.

LazyDay: *What makes you stand out from the rest of Authors? (Not an easy answer is it?)*

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I found this to be rather rude. Authors are faced with that question every day as they query agents and editors, so they are very aware of the importance of showing their talents and unique qualities. If you were aware of how publishing works, you would have never asked that question.

LazyDay: Being a new publisher does offer many things to the authors. A lot more attention, flexibility and energy will be spent on them.

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Now this is just plain silly. You're basically saying that you're nicer, have fresher breath, whiter teeth, and doggone it, people like you - and this group of savvy authors won't buy it for a minute.

You don't appear to be aware of how books are sold and how competitive it is. It's one thing to hang out your shingle and tell the world that you're a new epublisher, but you haven't given anyone a compelling reason as to how or why you're better than the established ebpublishers that are out there. Saying that authors will enjoy more attention, flexibility, and energy is window dressing. It doesn't address what you can accomplish.

I'd also like to address an aside - print rights and ebook rights. Publishers want both because they go hand in hand. It doesn't do well if there are two versions of the same book on the market because you end up competing against each other.

Let's use the example of someone reading the Kindle version, which was retained by the author, and hating the book because it was poorly edited. Not only will they not recommend the book, but they may bad-mouth it. Meanwhile, the publisher ran your manuscript through the spin and rinse cycle, and that book shines and rocks. It could turn out that your sales will falter because word of mouth from the Kindle readers who hated the book.

A publisher is nuts to not request the e-book rights as well. Or in LazyDay's instance, wanting the print rights.

Just generally speaking, I dislike inter-board sniping. What happens on other websites happens on those websites, and should be addressed on those websites.

(The exception being the PublishAmerica message board, which most folks can't post on, and where the posts of those who can ... vanish. Those, we archive and discuss here.)

This is just my opinion, of course... But I think it is valid to discuss both the publisher's website and their official blog, because both are directly tied to their business.

Agreed. Besides, any discussion on that blog post would now be gone since it's been deleted (and I think most of us who read it saw that coming). Pointless to do it there.

Jim, I don't see this as inter-board sniping at all. Why shouldn't their blog be open for critique? It's a representation of who they are - just like their website. How many times have we analyzed and commented on publisher's websites?

priceless1 said:

Jim, I don't see this as inter-board sniping at all. Why shouldn't their blog be open for critique? It's a representation of who they are - just like their website. How many times have we analyzed and commented on publisher's websites?

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I'm made uncomfortable by it. And, has been noted, sniping in general doesn't make the sniper look too good.

Yes, analyze the web page. That presumably had more time and thought put to it, and represents the business. Blog entries, like message board posts ... those feel different to me.

Amadan said:

Wow. Truly classless.

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Screenshot anyone? It appears to have disappeared.

p.s. being called gormless is never fun. But I think any of use who have put their writing out there have been called a lot worse at some point of another.

James D. Macdonald:
Blog entries, like message board posts ... those feel different to me.

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I think it depends on what the blog is for and who it belongs to.

A blog run in the name of a company, that's used as part of a company's official communication strategy and which therefore represents the part of the public face of that company is completely fair game for analysis IMO. The fact that it's a blog doesn't make what they put there any less official than their website and if they fail to think before they post or generally fall foul of the 'don't be an idiot' rule, then that's too bad for them. The first rule of marketing is that you shouldn't be making statements anywhere that you're not prepared to stand behind.

Publishers like Tor and Penguin UK run blogs as part of their marketing strategy and they run them professionally. Any publisher who decides to use a corporate blog to set out their grudges, must be prepared for people to take a look at that and analyse it accordingly.

MM

I think I'll be taking my leave of this thread for a while. Every time I come here, I get that damned song by Spanky And Our Gang stuck in my head and I'm close to crying bitter tears of frustration.

BenPanced said:

I think I'll be taking my leave of this thread for a while. Every time I come here, I get that damned song by Spanky And Our Gang stuck in my head and I'm close to crying bitter tears of frustration.

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*hugs*

veinglory said:

Screenshot anyone? It appears to have disappeared.

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The cached versions of both deleted posts--about Experience and about Negative--just showed up on Google. I've saved those as HTML files, and can send them to you if you like.

While I admit I agreed with Cat and thought the general tone of the questions in this thread was more "inquisition" and less "interview," after that blog post and the subsequent, unconvincing backpedaling, I kind of feel like they deserved it. (Seriously, what's even the point of being two-faced when everyone can see both faces?)

When they hire their experienced acquisitions editor and their educated marketing specialist, they should also hire a kindergarten teacher to explain manners.

(Added: I don't usually like inter-board sniping either, but I have to agree with eqb this time. It's the publisher's official blog, which they linked to when they made this thread. If it's someone's personal blog, where they rant like we all do, that's different, but this was advertised as being a part of their business.)

I've been offered and accepted a contract from LazyDay Publishing.

I'm really impressed with them. They're quick to answer my emails, seem really professional in what they're doing and Staci is really enthusiastic about providing a good service to writers

I'd really recommend them

Zefiris:
I've been offered and accepted a contract from LazyDay Publishing.

I'm really impressed with them. They're quick to answer my emails, seem really professional in what they're doing and Staci is really enthusiastic about providing a good service to writers

I'd really recommend them

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Are you able to share what kind of terms they offered you, e.g. did they take all foreign print rights to your manuscript or just worldwide electronic? How were contract negotiations? Did you get a publishing lawyer to take a look at the contract before hand?

What made you go with them as opposed to another publisher?

MM

Zefiris said:

I've been offered and accepted a contract from LazyDay Publishing.

I'm really impressed with them. They're quick to answer my emails, seem really professional in what they're doing and Staci is really enthusiastic about providing a good service to writers

I'd really recommend them

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I see your location is England. Will LD pay you in Euros, or U.S dollars? The reason I ask is because the conversion by banks can take a sizable chunk out of any check sent. And if they use paypal, there is also the fee's associated with your pay pal account as well as the conversion rates.

Also, have you looked into the legal aspects of signing a contract in a foreign country where your rights may be hard to enforce in case of breach of contract?

I think my biggest question for you, and please take no offense, but what made you decided to go with LD? Was it because other publishers have rejected your submissions? Was it the first time you have been offered a contract? Was it something in particular you liked about LD more so than other publishers?

I would expect any publisher I went with to be enthusiastic and provide a good service . But these are just talking points during the negotiations and if they have no proof of past service provided how does anyone make an informed decision? Gut instinct?

thothguard51 said:

I see your location is England. Will LD pay you in Euros, or U.S dollars? The reason I ask is because the conversion by banks can take a sizable chunk out of any check sent. And if they use paypal, there is also the fee's associated with your pay pal account as well as the conversion rates.

Also, have you looked into the legal aspects of signing a contract in a foreign country where your rights may be hard to enforce in case of breach of contract?

I think my biggest question for you, and please take no offense, but what made you decided to go with LD? Was it because other publishers have rejected your submissions? Was it the first time you have been offered a contract? Was it something in particular you liked about LD more so than other publishers?

I would expect any publisher I went with to be enthusiastic and provide a good service . But these are just talking points during the negotiations and if they have no proof of past service provided how does anyone make an informed decision? Gut instinct?

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The payment I guess will be dollars converted into pounds (England doesn't use the euro) That's all stuff I'll make sure to find out though so thank's for mentioning it.

I'll be straight, I know nothing about the legal side of things. I my brother have a look through it though (he knows more about that than me) and he says it's pucka.

I don't really expect any breach of contract to take place and if it does, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it


I went with LD because they impressed me. They're websites well designed, they provide alot of services and seemed really enthusiastic on their email.

I did have two other contract offer from a publisher for my novel (One from a a publisher that turned out to be subsidy, another which I was considering but decided with LD instead), also had a few full requests from various publishers and agents that were been considered.

Out of the three offerered contracts LD seemed by far the best. I know they're a new publisher but, how is a new publisher going to become established if people don't take a chance?

I've taken a chance and I know it's early stages but, so far LD seem good.

EDIT: QUOTE REMOVED at request of another user

I don't want to remove my whole post, because I stand by what I said and I think other writers should know about it. I'll just say that A. Nonny Mouse (a poster who will no longer be named) made a comment about not caring about payment rates. Hence this response.
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I get that people just want to be published and are willing to make compromises in order to do so. Heck, I used to be one of those people who used to say "I just need to get my name in print." But a slew of more experienced writers has taught me better. Please take this as advice, not a criticism.

Don't ever say those words in public. They can and will be used against you by any publisher or agent who is paying attention. Not to mention the attitude of "I'll do anything to get published" is what usually leads authors to buy into vanity presses, editorial services, writing scams of all nature, and getting paid a pittance by any legit publishers. I'm not saying LD is one of these people, but by publicly proclaiming that you don't care about money, you've just devalued yourself and your work.

The thing is, you should care about the money. You should care enough to ensure you're getting the best contract you can for the work you turn in.

The money shouldn't be the be-all, end-all of getting published, but if you don't care at all about the money, you might as well just self-publish for Kindle, Nook, and iBookstore without involving LD or any other publisher and give your work away for free while you're at it.

Zefiris said:

I know they're a new publisher but, how is a new publisher going to become established if people don't take a chance?

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How is a first-year medical student going to become experienced if patients aren't willing to let him perform surgery on them?

The same thing applies to publishers. The way to learn (and eventually become established) is by interning or working for an established publisher, not by starting up an amateur company and using manuscripts as guinea pigs.

Agreed.

So do I understand correctly that this is the book that was accepted for publication?

I can understand how excited you are, Zefiris, but the fact that you don't even know (or seem to care about) basic details concerning payment and contracts is troubling.

Zefiris:
The payment I guess will be dollars converted into pounds (England doesn't use the euro) That's all stuff I'll make sure to find out though so thank's for mentioning it.

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Actually, this is what you need to find out before you sign up to a contract. Not only that, but it's also a good idea to find out in advance if the publisher is going to make any deductions from royalty payments (e.g. for tax) on the basis that you're based in a different jurisdiction.

Zefiris:
my brother have a look through it though (he knows more about that than me) and he says it's pucka.

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Unless your brother is a practicing lawyer with experience in publishing contracts, his opinion that's it's "pucka" counts for very little.

I'm an English qualified lawyer with 10 years worth of experience in negotiating commercial contracts and even I would go and talk to a specialist before signing up to something - just so that I have an understanding of all of the obligations, rights and liabilities that I am signing up to.

Zefiris:
I don't really expect any breach of contract to take place and if it does, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it

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No one ever expects a breach of contract to take place. The reason why it's a good idea to speak to a lawyer in advance is because that gives you an idea of what your rights are before a breach takes place.

Not only that, but a lawyer will be able to tell you of any weasel wording within the contract that may make you expect one thing, when in fact the publisher is not actually obliged to perform that (e.g. PA's contract is notorious for this kind of thing).

Your biggest problem though is not breach of contract, but what happens if the company goes under (which is what happens with most new publishers within 2 years of start-up). In this situation, your rights in the manuscript don't automatically revert to you - they go the liquidator to dispose of as s/he sees fit. In an extreme situation that could result in them selling your manuscript to a vanity press or (more likely) you just end up in limbo, never getting your publishing rights reverted.

Zefiris:
I did have two other contract offer from a publisher for my novel (One from a a publisher that turned out to be subsidy, another which I was considering but decided with LD instead), also had a few full requests from various publishers and agents that were been considered.

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With respect, the sensible thing to do would have been to wait for the agents to get back to you. It also helps to do your research on publishers before sending them your manuscript - that way you can avoid entities that turn out to be vanity/subsidy presses.

Zefiris:
Out of the three offerered contracts LD seemed by far the best. I know they're a new publisher but, how is a new publisher going to become established if people don't take a chance?

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The best of a poor bunch is still a poor publisher. This suggests to me that you're in a hurry to get your manuscript in print without thinking through the pros and cons.

LazyDay Publishing has no track record - you are therefore their guinea pig. Some people are happy to be guinea pigs because they've exhausted all of their other options. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

Because LazyDay has no track record and (presumably) has not paid you an advance, you are not going to be able to use this as a professional publishing credit when it comes to querying agents/commercial publishers for your next book. In fact, agents/commercial publishers are not going to care about LazyDay at all unless you can show that you have made significant sales - and I have to say that I have not seen anything on the LazyDay website or on their posts here to suggest that they will get you even 1000 sales over the life of your contract. Anything you achieve will be by your efforts - which usually takes a lot of time and sometimes, spending your own money for little in return.

I hope that I'm wrong in this and that you'll come back here in a year to let us know how you got on.

Catadmin:
The thing is, you should care about the money. You should care enough to ensure you're getting the best contract you can for the work you turn in.

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Amen.

MM

thothguard51 said:

And if they use paypal, there is also the fee's associated with your pay pal account as well as the conversion rates.

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Um, I get paid through Paypal and I've never been charged....

Also re tax - if Lazy Day are in the US (they are right?) then there is a tax treaty between the two countries. If you fill out the right forms, you pay no tax in the US, but pay it here instead. If the earnings are over a certain amount (unlikely given that this is a new publisher. Unless they get incredibly lucky). Zef, if you want to know about that, PM me. Be forewarned - the forms are long and quite complicated...

Other than that, what MM said.

Of the US publishers I've worked with that pay royalties, two of the three have asked me for an ITIN, and pay by cheque. I'm going to chase up the third now, because I'm a little concerned at how I'm going to report earnings when I'm apparently not being taxed on what I receive from them. Anyway, they tend to use cheque rather than paypal for royalties, which I assume is an IRS thing. A $10 cheque, after bank conversion fees, gives you 60p, or $1. Not really worth cashing, to be honest. See what you can negotiate with your publisher, because otherwise those forms are going to get very annoying.

Your publisher should be able to walk you through applying for an ITIN (the equivalent of a social security number for non-US residents). That's a definite advantage of Lazy Day's business experience, tbh. Applying for an ITIN takes about four months, so it's worth doing as soon as possible. The contract isn't sufficient, you need a letter from Lazy Days explaining why you need one. The form isn't hard to fill out, but since royalties are a bit of an odd duck you need to get the wording spot on or they'll send it back, having wasted four months of your time*. To be honest, I'm more concerned about the UK side of it all, since it involves filing tax returns and registering as self-employed (while still being normally employed). I'm going to make an appointment with my local tax office as soon as the ITIN arrives.

The thing about payment is it doesn't matter if you care about the money or not. Inland Revenue and the IRS care very much indeed. I'm not trying to make a living from my writing, and I don't know if I'll even make enough this year to pay tax on (including the day job!), but I really don't want the IR knocking on my door because I forgot to tell them about it at all.


*and don't forget to sign it like I did, or you'll get it back much sooner from a very polite American official who's time you just wasted... Oh well, I hope I gave him a laugh! XP