should i have my novels copyrighted before posting them here?

[fictionchick24]

The title says it all. I want to post chapter-by-chapter, for constructive criticism, but should it be copyrighted first, even for a work in progress?

[Medievalist]

Originally Posted by fictionchick24

The title says it all. I want to post chapter-by-chapter, for constructive criticism, but should it be copyrighted first, even for a work in progress?

1. You already have copyright from the moment you begin writing.

2. You probably mean should you register the copyright, and no, you shouldn't. Let your publisher deal with that, once the work has been edited.

3. You should read the FAQ: on Copyright

4. SYW (Share Your Work) is password protected, and posts don't show up in Google. You can edit your posts after you've received a crit if you're worried. You won't be able to post there until you've posted 50 genuine posts elsewhere; here's the FAQ: Why Can't I Post to SYW?

[Ketzel]

Hi fictionchick24 and welcome. I know you have a few posts to go before you can access Share Your Work, but I wanted to give you a heads-up about your plan to post your whole novel, chapter by chapter for critique. Because there are so many people wanting feedback and because the critters here do a damn good job of offering it, SYW gets a lot of traffic, so posting your whole manuscript is not a good idea. Or, as guideline 13 in the Newbies' Guide to Share Your Work puts it:

"13. Don't plan to use SYW as a free editing service (or for doing your homework)."

Nearly everyone here is working on their own stuff, and they volunteer to crit. Experience tells us that the obvious problems in a person's work can be easily spotted in an excerpt (you tend to get the most crits if you post under a thousand words) and so posting a short sample gets you a lot of value without putting a disproportionate demand on the resources of the forum.
Plus, there's also a forum here to ask for a beta reader who is someone who will volunteer to to read the whole manuscript. And you are more likely to attract a good beta if you have posted an excerpt to show us how and what you are doing with your writing.

I don't mean to sound discouraging or critical - every board has its own culture and it takes time to acclimate, I know. This is just meant as a word to the wise. :-)

[Chumplet]

I think a critique group would be a better way to whip your whole novel into shape, or if you simply want to know if you're going in the right direction, use SYW to make sure. Once the first few chapters are critiqued, you might be able to use your acquired tools to spruce up the rest of your novel.

After that, a beta reader can help you determine if your novel has the right flow, etc.

Best of luck with your novel. You did it! Most people talk about writing a novel, but never actually finish one. Hope yours is successful.

[Literateparakeet]

Once you have the 50 posts, my suggestion is to post one chapter in SYW.

That will give you an idea about whether your next step should be a writing partner or a beta. Then proceed with that person/people through the complete book.

I have beta read 3 times, and two of them were for people who shared something in SYW, and I PM'd them and said, "I'd be happy to beta for you if you want!" Because I liked their work. The other one posted in the Beta reader forum, and I was intrigued by his query.

Good luck!

[fictionchick24]

Thanks everyone! One more question: when posting an excerpt of a full novel, is it best to start with the very beginning, or maybe rising action, to increase interest? If the latter, I have an exciting place to post. @Literateparakeet: I like your quote! I studied a little Nietesche, but I love the quotes from Ray Bradbury and Mark Twain I found, about loving what you write.

[Old Hack]

If you want to ask for feedback, post the piece that you want feedback on. If your novel opening doesn't grab people's interests, then you might be starting it in the wrong place.

[Maryn]

Amen, Old Hack.

Modern popular fiction virtually always opens with something crafted to snag and keep the reader. If yours doesn't, even if it's quite well written it's not working. Rethinking where to start can pay off big-time.

Maryn, who's scrapped early chapters more than once

[aibrean]

I've done two different things regarding copyright. I copyright material I know I'm going to self publish. If I want to query it, I'll get a pre-registration for it which is a lot more expensive ($100) but protects the full idea/concept.

[Old Hack]

aibrean, it's understandable that you would register your copyright on books that you're going to self-publish: but if you submit your work to reputable publishers and agents it really isn't necessary to do anything at all--and doing so can cause problems if you do end up getting a publisher.

[aibrean]

That's why I said I pre-register it if I'm going to query agents/publishers. Pre-registration doesn't give you copyright, but it protects you because you've submitted the concept to the copyright office first. You still have to copyright it later.

From copyright.gov,
Preregistration is not a substitute for registration. Its purpose is to allow an infringement action to be brought before the authorized commercial distribution of a work and full registration thereof, and to make it possible, upon full registration, for the copyright owner to receive statutory damages and attorneys' fees in an infringement action.

[Medievalist]

Originally Posted by aibrean

That's why I said I pre-register it if I'm going to query agents/publishers. Pre-registration doesn't give you copyright, but it protects you because you've submitted the concept to the copyright office first. You still have to copyright it later.

1. You're misusing copyright as a word. You don't have to copyright anything ever; you have copyright ab initio.

2. You may pre-register and register copyright.

3. If you're submitting work for publication, pre-registering or registering the copyright suggests you don't trust the entity to whom you're submitting, makes you look amateur and insulting, and, if you're actually published, it is a PITA for someone to re-register the copyright on a derivative edited work.

But whatever, it's your career.

[Old Hack]

aibrean, I obviously didn't make my point clearly enough.

Don't register or pre-register copyright on your work if you're going to submit it to publishers or agents. It makes things much more complicated in the long run, and doesn't really give you any more protection than you already have.

[Ketzel]

If I want to query it, I'll get a pre-registration for it which is a lot more expensive ($100) but protects the full idea/concept.

And to add another lawyerly clarification - copyright protection does not extend to concepts or ideas. The only thing protected is the form in which the concept or idea has been fixed. For example, JK Rowling's copyright in the Harry Potter series does not give her the right to prevent another author from creating a series about an orphan who goes to a school for wizards, as long as that author is not using her text to tell the story.

[Billtrumpet25]

Originally Posted by Ketzel

And to add another lawyerly clarification - copyright protection does not extend to concepts or ideas. The only thing protected is the form in which the concept or idea has been fixed. For example, JK Rowling's copyright in the Harry Potter series does not give her the right to prevent another author from creating a series about an orphan who goes to a school for wizards, as long as that author is not using her text to tell the story.

Or names. I believe there is a clause on that, too.

[BenPanced]

Originally Posted by Ketzel

And to add another lawyerly clarification - copyright protection does not extend to concepts or ideas. The only thing protected is the form in which the concept or idea has been fixed. For example, JK Rowling's copyright in the Harry Potter series does not give her the right to prevent another author from creating a series about an orphan who goes to a school for wizards, as long as that author is not using her text to tell the story.

Originally Posted by Billtrumpet25

Or names. I believe there is a clause on that, too.

Then you start getting into trademark, a whole new ball of worms since Warner Bros. owns that.

[Cyia]

Which brings us to "You can't copyright an idea" / "Ideas are worthless."

I know with things like screenplays that you register with WGA, only the exact version submitted is registered. Make revisions, and you've got a new property.

Also - no agent/editor is going to steal your stuff. It's too much work for too little in potential gains.

[FMAnderson]

I was going to use some articles from other writers in my novel to highlight and inform readers on the work's connections to real events. I ended up changing what I had put in out of copyright concerns and because contraction the writers and their outlets for permission was too much work.

I'm glad I did, too. What I wrote myself was much better and I was able to wrap it up more in the fictional world I was creating within these real events.
In short- copyright issues aren't always a bad thing. Coming up with something yourself is much more rewarding.