Using Japanese terms in Fantasy aimed at an English speaking audience?

Lillith1991

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I'm going to take an opposite tack from some of the previous commentators. If your book is written in English, and describing a culture that is not Japanese (and, perhaps, a world that is not Earth), using Japanese terms for fantastical elements is going to sound a little pretentious at best, and at worst like anime fanfic.

Unless your readers are all conversant in the ways of anime and manga, calling a character a "miko" or "kannushi" is going to alienate them fast.

No. Just... no. I'm sorry, but what you're saying is not the case and is entirely illogical. To begin with, it is hardly likely someone with no interest in asian culture and therefore alt asian cultures would seek out such a book to begin with. And if they do, they'll likely already be an SFF reader. SFF readers are used to words they don't understand, as well as having those words explained in context if need be.

Your logic dictates that we are either writing for people with no prior knowledge of SFF books and conventions, or people who have somehow not come across any foriegn words in any story they've read ever. Both are not just unlikely, but illogical too, as a writer generally writes for an audience similar to themselves. Hence why you aren't likely to see someone who doesn't like the genre they write in at least a little try to get published in said genre. Someone who can't stand Horror or any other genre isn't likely to have interest in writing it in the first place. Why would readers be any different? Readers read because the book looks interesting, and humans find most interesting that to which they already feel drawn.
 

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I'd be worried that readers will assume the words are a made-up language similar to Japanese, and not the actual language itself. Maybe you should start with the more familiar words so that they make a connection, and then move on to the words a Western reader isn't likely to know.

And also explain what the words mean, too. Just because they're real words doesn't mean a reader will understand what they mean in that context, even if they look it up. Nero Wolfe has a large English vocabulary and it's still annoying to have to google words.
 

Ken

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Did anyone mention a glossary? If you use a lot of foreign words/phrases there is nothing wrong with including a glossary. As a reader I really appreciate when authors supply one, even though that might not be chic. Shameful to be sure.
 

Mr Flibble

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No. Just... no. I'm sorry, but what you're saying is not the case and is entirely illogical. To begin with, it is hardly likely someone with no interest in asian culture and therefore alt asian cultures would seek out such a book to begin with. And if they do, they'll likely already be an SFF reader. SFF readers are used to words they don't understand, as well as having those words explained in context if need be.

Your logic dictates that we are either writing for people with no prior knowledge of SFF books and conventions, or people who have somehow not come across any foriegn words in any story they've read ever. Both are not just unlikely, but illogical too, as a writer generally writes for an audience similar to themselves. Hence why you aren't likely to see someone who doesn't like the genre they write in at least a little try to get published in said genre. Someone who can't stand Horror or any other genre isn't likely to have interest in writing it in the first place. Why would readers be any different? Readers read because the book looks interesting, and humans find most interesting that to which they already feel drawn.


Yes

And also no, it's not illogical at all

Yeah people are used to reading SFF are also used to seeing unusual words and figuring them out from context

I'd still get jerked out of the story if they are scattered over the page like shotgun pellets. If there's no context as well, I'm lobbing the book. There was quite a prominent book a few years ago I did this with. If I need a dictionary three times to make it through a page, I'm done. Thing was, there were plenty of other words the author could have used. It seemed like he was just using these ones to sound cool/different or something. That he added very little context just made things worse. It did, in fact, read as pretentious like the author was showing off how many super obscure words he knew and if you, the reader, didn't, well then.... Several reviews pointed out the same thing (Author later blogged about it, saying one thing he'd learned is just because you know a fancy word doesn't mean you should use it. Use the right word. Which is sometimes the fancy one but most often not)

So yeah you can use Japanese words. But be careful how you do it (plenty of context) and why (if it's just to sound cool, no) and how often
 
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Lillith1991

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Yes

And also no, it's not illogical at all

Yeah people are used to reading SFF are also used to seeing unusual words and figuring them out from context

I'd still get jerked out of the story if they are scattered over the page like shotgun pellets. If there's no context as well, I'm lobbing the book. There was quite a prominent book a few years ago I did this with. If I need a dictionary three times to make it through a page, I'm done. Thing was, there were plenty of other words the author could have used. It seemed like he was just using these ones to sound cool/different or something. That he added very little context just made things worse. It did, in fact, read as pretentious like the author was showing off how many super obscure words he knew and if you, the reader, didn't, well then.... Several reviews pointed out the same thing (Author later blogged about it, saying one thing he'd learned is just because you know a fancy word doesn't mean you should use it. Use the right word. Which is sometimes the fancy one but most often not)

So yeah you can use Japanese words. But be careful how you do it (plenty of context) and why (if it's just to sound cool, no) and how often

Oh, that wasn't what I was saying is illogical. Truth be told, I would be annoyed with a book that used a forieng word too often and just to look cool too. What I find illogical is saying that readers, particularly SFF ones won't be able to get into Japanese or any other language's world in an alt setting, unless they're already well versed in anime or media associated with that culture. To me it assumes the reader lacks the inteligence that they do in fact posses, or if they're new haven't encountered such things in other genres before taking an interest in SF.

Fact is, SFF isn't the only kind of fiction to incoperate forieng words. The difference is the inclusion of con-langs in SFF, not including forieng words themselves. Historical Fiction for example, may use Japanese words, French, Arabic etc. if it is the best for the story and will help expand the world the writer is recreating.

That it happens in almost every genre, doesn't mean a writer can write a page chock full of such words hower. Of that you are certainly right.
 

JimmyB27

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I'd be worried that readers will assume the words are a made-up language similar to Japanese, and not the actual language itself.

Why would that be a worry? I rather enjoy the sensation of seeing something I'm familiar with in a fictional context somewhere else and a lightbulb going off in brain saying "Oh! That's a real thing! Cool!".
 

Thomas Vail

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I always enjoyed the 'Legend of the Five Rings' setting, even though knowing what words actually meant occasionally had me rolling my eyes at how the writers employed them.

I forget where I read it, but there was an amusing little guide to spicing up the language in a story that had the same sentence written three times.

Once normally.

Once with a few words replaced, that context made clear what they were, but helped reinforce the 'somewhere else'ness that was supposed to be conveyed.

Once with so many words replaced that it was a mess of weird syllables and 'inverted commas' and the notation that most people don't want to learn a new language just to read a story that's supposedly written in their own.

I wish I could remember where I ran across it, because it was fairly amusing.

If you're going for a Japanese counterpart culture, then using what feels like an 'appropriate' sprinkling of terminology to reinforce that should be good. The only issue is that the difference between 'appropriate' and 'gratuitous' is very much according to individual taste.
 
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Ravioli

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It needs to make sense. Foxfolk sounds perfectly fine though. Just don't be one of those weaboos using Japanese terms without knowing exactly what they mean, both literally and culturally.
Also, when people know Japanese, the terminology you use it for will immediately lose its mythical/exotic flavor and be an overly obvious use of foreign but perfectly plain, everyday vocabulary to spice something up.
Vice-versa, the anime Weiß Kreuz used to tick me off, using German words inappropriately and for no good reason, and breakign the fourth wall to any German speaker by reminding them that this is a load of nonsense trying to be edgy by using and misusing a foreign language they can't even pronounce. Don't be that person. Do it carefully, or leave it.

Also keep in mind that Japanese sounds very different from English and there may be problems for the readers to pronounce or at least find structure in the words.
 
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meltong

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I always think of Amy Tan's work (includes Chinese terms) and Sandra Cisneros (she puts in spanish words)....

And then I look at The Dresden Files and the wizard spouts Fuego! (Spanish) and Japanese terms (I forget)....

Japanese is actually very popular to use, when in terms of key words and names, like the Kitsune someone mentioned... I come from learning Japanese (from my mom) so it's just normal for me, but from Japanese lovers (they LOVE the sharing of these terms and you will gain this group of lovers to love your terms since you know how to use it).

Hope that helps.
 

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As the title asks. Is it ok to use terms in a non-English language, in this case Japanese, in a story aimed at English speaking audiences? In particular, I want to use various Youkai from Japanese mythology and want to directly call them by their Japanese names. "Foxfolk" just doesn't have the same sound and connotation as "Kitsune" and so on. As a result, if at all possible I really want to directly use the Japanese names of these Youkai monsters. Even further, I don't want to have "wizards" and "clerics/priests" but instead use the arctypes of the "Onmyoji" "Kannushi" and "Miko" to fill similar roles, using those distinct Japanese terms to label them. However, I'm not sure if Japanese terms in a fantasy story would be too much of a turn off for English-speaking audiences?

Is there a "line in the sand" for just how much Japanese I can include and if so where is it drawn? Can I only get away with relatively well-known Japanese terms like ninja, samurai etc..? Or can I get into some more obscure Youkai names and stuff like the Onmyoji and Kannushi/Miko? Is using Japanese terms to describe traditional Japanese clothing articles that don't have an exact western equivalent ok as well?

Any thoughts/advice on how much Japanese is ok in a narrative written for English-speaking audiences would be great.

Also, if your wondering, the story using these terms would be set either directly in Japan or a secondary world based heavily on Japanese mythology, and the characters would in fact be Japanese rather then westerners.

This sounds very interesting to me. I know of quite a few writers who are doing things like that. (Chinese, Philliphino, Korean.. for me it makes me want to learn more about those cultures in a way dry textbooks never can.)

Have a glossary at the end too.