Ebola case in Dallas.

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Apparently a 3 foot radius is considered 'close contact' by the CDC. So they may be suspicious of a sneeze/cough, and certainly a hug, or a handshake would be a way to pass it along. Hopefully they have figured out everyone that came in close contact, have them quarantined at home, and are watching them closely. And, I hope nobody else comes down with it.

According to the last news I heard, one of his relatives may be ill. (Too soon to tell what they are ill from.)
 

emax100

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Apparently a 3 foot radius is considered 'close contact' by the CDC. So they may be suspicious of a sneeze/cough, and certainly a hug, or a handshake would be a way to pass it along. Hopefully they have figured out everyone that came in close contact, have them quarantined at home, and are watching them closely. And, I hope nobody else comes down with it.

According to the last news I heard, one of his relatives may be ill. (Too soon to tell what they are ill from.)
I thgink if someone has the symptoms of it then the bodily fluids of it which have the virus can in various ways spread out enough to infect someone in a three foot radius. Apparently, one thing about Ebola is that when infected people show the symptoms there is absolutely no mistaking it for anything else.
 

cornflake

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I thgink if someone has the symptoms of it then the bodily fluids of it which have the virus can in various ways spread out enough to infect someone in a three foot radius. Apparently, one thing about Ebola is that when infected people show the symptoms there is absolutely no mistaking it for anything else.

Untrue - some strains, or some infections, do end up with the horror-story symptomology, but a lot don't. Most people with the strain circulating in West Africa seem to not be exhibiting hemorrhaging, but fever, headache, diarrhea.
 

emax100

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Untrue - some strains, or some infections, do end up with the horror-story symptomology, but a lot don't. Most people with the strain circulating in West Africa seem to not be exhibiting hemorrhaging, but fever, headache, diarrhea.
Yes but I was referring to scenarios where a 3 foot radius would be considering liable to get infections from someone with it and saying that if someone were to get infected from 3 feet away it would b not really be from water droplets or the virus traveling through the air but through, well, more graphic means of transport.
 

Cyia

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With the strain in Africa, what you're getting are child-contact exposures (dirty diapers, spit up, vomit, etc.), elderly-contact exposures (again, loss of control with bodily functions, or required medical aid involving blood or other fluids), and funerary-contact exposures (close contact with the deceased, no embalming, then touch-by-touch spreading due to crying, sweating, hugging someone with snot or spit on their person or clothes, etc.

Then there's the clinical situation. Few, if any, sterile facilities. Lack of supplies. No gloves or clothing/shoe covers. Few masks. Large numbers of people jammed into small spaces that can't accommodate them all, and a serious lack of information / education.

You're in a region of the world where superstition and tradition can often supersede medical care. One of the most popular folk cures for communicable diseases like measles and chicken pox is to shut the symptomatic child in a room for a week before seeking medical care, which increases the chances of the child dying. The same kind of thing is happening with the Ebola outbreak.

The one clinic that was able to get supplies was raided by armed men within days. The raiders not only took the supplies and medicines, but they forced the patients from the clinic and told them all to go home because they all merely had malaria and that ebola was a hoax. Then they stole the bedding - almost certainly infected bedding - and took it home with them. Again, the disease spreads.

Now compare that to a hospital in the US with established quarantine procedures. There are isolation rooms with one-way ventilation as a double-precaution against possible airborne mutation. Plenty of supplies. Sterile conditions. The doctors can keep fluids in the patient and treat his fever, which is the real killer.

Even untreated Ebola's mortality rate isn't 100% It's not even 80%. If I remember correctly from an old school project, it's in the 50%-60% range - and that's in open air, without medication or professional care of any kind. With care, the rate drops rapidly.

At this point, it's mainly a matter of tracking down his points of contact, watching them for about a month, and monitoring his health to make sure the fever doesn't get out of control.
 

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Here's another couple of links that discuss the transmission of the disease.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/09/12/346114454/how-do-you-catch-ebola-by-air-sweat-or-water

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html?_r=0



I think it's pretty clear that officials often oversimplify things when they discuss transmission. Still, it's harder to catch than the flu or noro or many other common viruses. I was curious how they were so certain that this man had no contact with anyone at all save some school kids (I wonder how that happened) and the health workers in the hospital. He was staying with some people, wasn't he? Diarrhea and blood are the worst fluids for spreading virus, but that doesn't mean vomit, mucus, or saliva has zero chance of transmitting it.
 
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cornflake

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Yes but I was referring to scenarios where a 3 foot radius would be considering liable to get infections from someone with it and saying that if someone were to get infected from 3 feet away it would b not really be from water droplets or the virus traveling through the air but through, well, more graphic means of transport.

Why wouldn't it be? That's how viruses can spread. Coughing can transmit virus-laden droplets within that radius.
 

kaitie

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Here's another couple of links that discuss the transmission of the disease.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/09/12/346114454/how-do-you-catch-ebola-by-air-sweat-or-water

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html?_r=0



I think it's pretty clear that officials often oversimplify things when they discuss transmission. Still, it's harder to catch than the flu or noro or many other common viruses. I was curious how they were so certain that this man had no contact with anyone at all save some school kids (I wonder how that happened) and the health workers in the hospital. He was staying with some people, wasn't he? Diarrhea and blood are the worst fluids for spreading virus, but that doesn't mean vomit, mucus, or saliva has zero chance of transmitting it.

The article I saw directly stated that the friends and family he had been around were most at risk, with one family member in particular being under close observation.
 

backslashbaby

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No longer just family and a handful of kids anymore. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/texas-ebola_n_5919522.html

80 people have possibly been exposed. I'm not usually a fan of suing, but if any of those people die because the hospital sent this guy home, I really feel that the hospital should be held accountable for that.

I agree. There is no excuse, really, for that kind of mistake. It's not like the CDC didn't send a checklist, which the nurse followed, btw.

Apparently Customs isn't really following the checklist they were sent, either. Sorry, it was another CNN report that I watched, so I'm just paraphrasing the story. A journalist they had covering Ebola in Africa described the crew's return trip to the US. Most of the crew didn't get asked any questions or advised of anything after they explained what they had been doing. Hopefully that was just because they assumed a CNN team covering Ebola would know the drill, but it didn't sound that way.

Folks do need to take this seriously, even though it's very rare. If I'd had to guess what sort of things could put people in danger of contracting Ebola in the US from an exposed person, the mistakes we're seeing are what I would have picked. We don't do 'rare' well, imho*.

[* I have permanent nerve damage because a disease I have was rare in my age group. That basically meant nobody checked for it, even with all the obvious, specific symptoms going on for years. I hate 'rare' ;) ]
 

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Why wouldn't it be? That's how viruses can spread. Coughing can transmit virus-laden droplets within that radius.

Just to add a bit to this:

Can Ebola be spread by coughing? Sneezing?

Unlike respiratory illnesses like measles or chickenpox, which can be transmitted by virus particles that remain suspended in the air after an infected person coughs or sneezes, Ebola is transmitted by direct contact with body fluids of a person who has symptoms of Ebola disease. Although coughing and sneezing are not common symptoms of Ebola, if a symptomatic patient with Ebola coughs or sneezes on someone, and saliva or mucus come into contact with that person’s eyes, nose or mouth, these fluids may transmit the disease.

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/qas.html?mobile=nocontent
 

kaitie

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There are conflicting answers out there regarding coughing and so on. There was a case of Ebola that spread to monkeys in cages who didn't have access to one another. It was spreading "airborne" to the degree that all the monkeys had to be euthanized. But that specific study said that specific strain was not airborne in the way we think of the flu being airborne, but simply that the droplets were small enough to be caught that way. It's also worth mentioning that this was only monkeys, and that we don't know if humans could catch it this way, and it does seem that other strains require larger droplets and thus can't just be inhaled.

I think the big scary right now is that we don't really know if this is transmitting so quickly because of the areas it hit and lack of proper hygiene, etc., or if it might be more easily transmissible than other strains in the past. There is at least one doctor who was not known to have been in direct contact with anyone who had Ebola who came down with it, but that doesn't mean he didn't. It just means we don't know.

I think we can agree it's not airborne in the same sense that a cold or flu might be, but different experts are saying different things, which makes it difficult to know, and honestly I think the answer is just that we still don't. We don't have the 100% right answer because we're still figuring it out.
 

Don

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Just the neoconservatives, apparently.
The policy paper titled, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” is the “white paper” of the neoconservatives in their Project for a New American Century. On page 60 it states: “The art of warfare will be vastly different than it is today. Combat likely will take place in new dimensions. Advanced forms of biological warfare that can target specific genotypes, may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.
I hope I'm not the only one who finds that last sentence creepy.
 

dfwtinman

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More info at the below link

It's highly unlikely that Ebola can travel long distances through the air
What some readers seem to be worried about, though, is not a big cough droplet that travels a few feet, but whether Ebola could travel longer distances in tiny, tiny droplets. This is called "aerosol transmission," and it's something that the measles and some kinds of influenza can do.

Experts say that this is highly unlikely. And this 2012 study of pigs and monkeys doesn't contradict that — indeed, it didn't really address the question of aerosol transmission. It couldn't distinguish between big droplets and little aerosol droplets because the pigs were simply too close to the monkeys.

What the study was designed to do is figure out if Ebola could go from a pig to a primate without them directly touching. Researchers were curious about this because there was evidence that a different, nonlethal-to-humans species of Ebola had done so in the Philippines.

So yes, two monkeys got Ebola from pigs in a laboratory. But that doesn't mean that they would have gotten it if they'd been 10 feet away from each other. And it doesn't mean that any of this would necessarily happen in people.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/10/5980553/ebola-outbreak-virus-aerosol-airborne-pigs-monkeys
 

CaroGirl

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3000 people have died of Ebola in West Africa since this particular outbreak began. 3000 people die of malaria in Africa EVERY DAY.

Perspective.
 

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benbradley

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No longer just family and a handful of kids anymore. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/texas-ebola_n_5919522.html

80 people have possibly been exposed. I'm not usually a fan of suing, but if any of those people die because the hospital sent this guy home, I really feel that the hospital should be held accountable for that.
He's got more to worry about than civil charges:
Liberia 'to prosecute US Ebola man'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29467489
The Liberian authorities say they will prosecute the man diagnosed with Ebola in the US, accusing him of lying over his contact with an infected relative.

When he left the country last month, Liberian national Thomas Eric Duncan filled in a questionnaire saying that none of his relatives were sick.

But Liberia's assistant health minister said he had taken a sick relative to a clinic in a wheelbarrow.
3000 people have died of Ebola in West Africa since this particular outbreak began. 3000 people die of malaria in Africa EVERY DAY.

Perspective.
The number of cases of and deaths by malaria won't double every three weeks.

The number of cases of ebola has been doubling every three weeks, and if it continues at that rate (as it may, even likely will, if authorities don't take extreme measures to stop it), ebola deaths could reach or exceed 3,000 per day in a matter of months.

That is the perspective one should have.
 

CaroGirl

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The number of cases of ebola has been doubling every three weeks, and if it continues at that rate (as it may, even likely will, if authorities don't take extreme measures to stop it), ebola deaths could reach or exceed 3,000 per day in a matter of months.

That is the perspective one should have.

The number of cases of Ebola has been doubling because the people of Africa are notoriously skeptical of the west and have entrenched practices of caring for their sick and dead that have allowed the virus to spread. The number of cases in the US, where information can be disseminated quickly and people are receptive and willing to follow medical advice, will not follow the West African pattern. Ebola simply isn't that easily spread.
 

emax100

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There are conflicting answers out there regarding coughing and so on. There was a case of Ebola that spread to monkeys in cages who didn't have access to one another. It was spreading "airborne" to the degree that all the monkeys had to be euthanized. But that specific study said that specific strain was not airborne in the way we think of the flu being airborne, but simply that the droplets were small enough to be caught that way. It's also worth mentioning that this was only monkeys, and that we don't know if humans could catch it this way, and it does seem that other strains require larger droplets and thus can't just be inhaled.

I think the big scary right now is that we don't really know if this is transmitting so quickly because of the areas it hit and lack of proper hygiene, etc., or if it might be more easily transmissible than other strains in the past. There is at least one doctor who was not known to have been in direct contact with anyone who had Ebola who came down with it, but that doesn't mean he didn't. It just means we don't know.
I think that given the conditions of medical care in much of Africa and the sanitation conditions, I think it points to the former now. If it could be transmitted by airborne methods, then by now it would already be all over the US, Europe, Africa [and not just West Africa but all of Africa] and Asia, no matter how much we tried to restrict travel from Africa.

It might be time to inject some more science here: http://www.iflscience.com/.../study-confirms-ebola-not... http://scienceblogs.com/.../ebola-will-not-become.../
BTW, the most deadly disease in Africa is Pneumonia, which takes the lives of 800,000 Africans each year.
 

emax100

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Sorry, that just made me chuckle a little bit.
I think this is entirely relative here, as in, this is relative to places where people rely only on superstition and local idols for all their medical advice. In the US, on average, we at least don't rely solely on superstitions and totally ignore any and all medical advice simply because it goes against our superstitions.
 

CaroGirl

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Sorry, that just made me chuckle a little bit.

I gather you're not chuckling about how fast information travels in the US, but about people being willing to follow medical advice.

Did I mention I'm Canadian. ;)