Ok. Um... wow.

Vince524

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I didn't expect this.

Using strikingly open language, a new Vatican report says the church should welcome and appreciate gays, and offers a solution for divorced and remarried Catholics who want to receive Communion.

At a press conference on Monday to present the report, Cardinal Louis Antonio Tagle of the Philippines said Catholic clergy meeting here have largely focused on the impact of poverty, war and immigration on families.

But the newly proposed language on gays and civil marriages represents a “pastoral earthquake,” said one veteran Vatican journalist.

“Regarding homosexuals, it went so far as to pose the question whether the church could accept and value their sexual orientation without compromising Catholic doctrine,” said John Thavis, a former Rome bureau chief for Catholic News Service.

The Rev. James Martin, an author and Jesuit priest, called the report's language on gays and lesbians "revolutionary."

I know it doesn't go as far as most of us would like, but I never thought I'd ever see something as far as this.
 

CassandraW

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And here's something I never thought I'd say --

I think the current Pope is pretty awesome, and an amazing breath of fresh air in the Catholic Church (which sorely needed it, IMO).
 

William Haskins

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"come to the church and even eat the cracker, but don't try to get married here."

also love how the big, bold statements actually take the form of questions:

“Homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community. Are we capable of welcoming these people, guaranteeing to them a fraternal space in our communities? Often they wish to encounter a church that offers them a welcoming home. Are our communities capable of providing that, accepting and valuing their sexual orientation, without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony?”

it's like when the news teaser asks, "is your washcloth killing you? tune in and see..."

so. tune in and see.
 

Vince524

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2 things.

1, it seems like this pope is pushing the church in small, painful shoves to accept gay rights. I don't know if equality is his end game. I hope it is, but still.

2, and I can't stress this enough both as a lapsed catholic, a former alter boy, a christian and all of that. Let me pose this question. What in holy hell happened to Cassie's AV?
 

William Haskins

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obviously turned inside-out.

and we'll see if your god protects you when the washcloths come.
 

CassandraW

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Well, this IS the Catholic Church we're talking here. Given the history of the church, I share Vince's astonishment that they went this far.

And maybe I'm reading too much into his "who am I to judge?", but I get the feeling Pope Francis would (and I hope will) go further.

I'm severely and hopeless lapsed, but from a very Catholic family. It has entertained me to no end to hear my family members discuss Pope Francis. Half of them share my view that he's a cool dude, and the other half think he's the antichrist. I suspect there's a similar division among the bishops.


ETA -- yeah. I don't have a lot of control over my avatar. This looks like cray's work to me, but it could be any number of mods, really.
 
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CassandraW

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an alternate take on the pope's much ballyhooed "who am i to judge" quote.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/09/pope-francis-comments-on-homosexuality-in-the-big-interview/

Well, perhaps. I'm choosing to be optimistic about this guy for now. For two reasons:

(1) Bitter people apparently go to hell. And as a dirty-dancing, alcohol drinking, evolution-believing, prideful-scoffing whore, I have enough problems.

(2) Pope Francis has been bucking church traditions left and right since he got in.
 

CassandraW

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Damn it. No one's going to pay any attention to anything I say as long as I have this throbby, blobby, pink avatar. Is that about right?
 

chompers

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Damn it. No one's going to pay any attention to anything I say as long as I have this throbby, blobby, pink avatar. Is that about right?
Maybe that was the mod's intent?

Where's my prize for solving the puzzle?
 

T Robinson

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Spotted earlier:

Wanted: Exorcist. Apply to CassandraW. Must be very talented at removing multiple gremlins through multiple layers of complexity. Rate negotiable depending on skill level.
 

Amadan

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Damn it. No one's going to pay any attention to anything I say as long as I have this throbby, blobby, pink avatar. Is that about right?


I'm sorry, what was that? I was too distracted by that throbby, blobby pink thing.
 

CassandraW

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Maybe that was the mod's intent?

Where's my prize for solving the puzzle?


Do I look like I have any prizes to give out? If you hadn't noticed, I don't have pockets.

Tell you what. You can have this avatar when I'm done with it.



Now. What were we talking about?
 

BenPanced

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also love how the big, bold statements actually take the form of questions
Open-ended questions with no hard "yes/no/maybe/ask again later" answers that are going to be left to the current cardinals and bishops, anyway.

Call me a cynical old poop, but it's going to take another 25 to 30 years before the Catholic Church makes any sort of progress similar to where we are in basic civil rights. I plan on being dead by then, so I'm not going to see any seismic shift in liturgical thinking and doctrine.
 

CassandraW

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Open-ended questions with no hard "yes/no/maybe/ask again later" answers that are going to be left to the current cardinals and bishops, anyway.

Call me a cynical old poop, but it's going to take another 25 to 30 years before the Catholic Church makes any sort of progress similar to where we are in basic civil rights. I plan on being dead by then, so I'm not going to see any seismic shift in liturgical thinking and doctrine.


Thank you, Ben, for ignoring my unfortunate appearance.

I think you're right that change isn't going to come overnight. But I hope it's coming sooner than in 25-30 years.

I don't plan to die, so whenever it happens, I will be around to see it.
 

backslashbaby

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et des boyaux du dernier prêtre serrons le cou du dernier roi.

Yeah, I was thinking maybe that's what her avatar is, too. With an unfortunate spastic condition, looks like.

Eta: Ha! Cross-posted.
 

frimble3

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It sounds like a desperation play, what do they call it in the NFL? A 'Hail Mary' pass? :D

If they're bleeding members to the point that they're putting ads on TV asking lapsed Catholics to come back, maybe they're desperate enough to try to get the gay and divorced/remarried people back in the tent.
Because that 'no divorced/remarried' thing is also a big and old problem, although I suspect blind eyes are turned (as they are to 'good Catholic' families with only one or two children).
 

veinglory

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For a faith that is theoretically unchanging and led by someone infallible, even saying there are unanswered questions is pretty radical.
 

CassandraW

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Men are sooooo shallow. Can't you look beyond my squishy throbby blobby avatar and see the beautiful soul beneath it?
 

T Robinson

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There is much imagination on this site...............but I don't know. You're asking a lot, especially when it keeps morphing. Shape shifters are different.