"Benveolent" Stalker

kuwisdelu

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?

At what point does obsession become stalking?

(I think this dude very obviously jumped the shark into stalking; just thoughts for discussion.)
 

DancingMaenid

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?

At what point does obsession become stalking?

(I think this dude very obviously jumped the shark into stalking; just thoughts for discussion.)

Well, I think obsession on its own may not be a problem if it doesn't lead to unwanted or threatening behavior. Having thoughts isn't the same thing as committing a crime. Stalking is defined by behavior--while it often involves unhealthy obsession over the victim, it doesn't need to. Someone might stalk another person just to upset them, for example.

Someone who's truly obsessed might be at risk of behaving in a threatening or inappropriate way, and they may need psychiatric help. But a lot of people become fixated on people they're attracted to, and may do things like "stalk" them on Facebook or Google. It's okay when it's not excessive and doesn't impact the target's life.

The key is to recognize the difference between fantasy and reality, and to tell the difference between behavior that's harmless on its own (like looking at your crush's public Facebook photos) and behavior that may be intrusive, threatening, or a violation of the person's privacy.
 

mccardey

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?

At what point does obsession become stalking?

(I think this dude very obviously jumped the shark into stalking; just thoughts for discussion.)

Yes, as long as you don't stalk someone.
 

kuwisdelu

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Yes, as long as you don't stalk someone.

Does Facebook stalking count as stalking, or only sometimes?

(I'm reminded of our "what counts as bullying" thread, and I'm wondering whether getting used to hear people joke around about "Facebook stalking" leads to people taking more serious stalking less seriously.)
 

mccardey

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Does Facebook stalking count as stalking, or only sometimes?

(I'm reminded of our "what counts as bullying" thread, and I'm wondering whether getting used to hear people joke around about "Facebook stalking" leads to people taking more serious stalking less seriously.)

I hope it doesn't count, because I facebook stalk my kids all the time. ;)

I don't know that I'd call facebook stalking benevolent. It might be unseen, but it's still (unless it's your mum doing it, of course, and you haven't phoned her since The Terrible Toothache Call of October 5 but who's counting the days and it's not like she has anything else to do with her time beyond worrying about what the dentist said) a thing - a kind of over-stepping of the boundaries. But when it becomes malevolent is when it's intended to be seen and noted and dealt with to gratify the stalker on some level.

(Provided she's not your mum.)

Is that clear?

ETA: And actual stalking - nope. Never benevolent. And I'd argue not harmless either, even if it's never noticed - because of the potential for harm that travels beside it. It assumes that boundaries don't exist and they do. And they need to.
 
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Unimportant

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?
I reckon some fans of, say, Justin Beiber or Michael Jackson have been pretty obsessed, but it's benevolent/harmless (at least to the object of their obsession) and doesn't involve stalking (in person).
 

robjvargas

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Does Facebook stalking count as stalking, or only sometimes?

(I'm reminded of our "what counts as bullying" thread, and I'm wondering whether getting used to hear people joke around about "Facebook stalking" leads to people taking more serious stalking less seriously.)

I'm not even sure what Facebook stalking is. Not entirely. If you keep sending friend requests and they keep denying, then that becomes stalking... I guess.

Hacking into the person's account so that... no, no "so that." Once you've hacked someone account you're stalking. Creating new accounts that the object of your obsession might let in, that's stalking.

Really, if you're making yourself a presence in someone's life without their express consent, you're stalking.

I *do* think some instances of alleged online stalking aren't. For example, friend requests. Even if they try over and over, you can block them out. Now, if the person starts creating accounts, see above. And report it to FB, Twitter, every service where it happens.

Stalking is serious business. Unless it's confronted, it *will* get worse. I don't know of any examples where it got better on its own, or even simply stayed the same.
 

Cyia

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?

At what point does obsession become stalking?

(I think this dude very obviously jumped the shark into stalking; just thoughts for discussion.)

Benevolent obsession, to me, would be someone "obsessed" within the lines of consent for the object of said obsession.

You're allowed to obsess over the public side of a public figure. Put their allowed photos all over your walls. Go to their concerts. Try and see them in person when they make public appearances. Write them letters. BUT, only so far as you acknowledge that you're engaging with a public persona and not the "real" person. If one of their "people" informs you that you've crossed the line, accept that and dial it back.

You can even engage a private individual up to that point, though without the photo montage on your walls, or using their image on your decorations. (Photo throw blankets are creepy. Don't try and convince me otherwise.) Again, you're okay up to the point the other person is uncomfortable. So basically, don't interfere in a person's daily routine, unless they've given you permission to do so.

IF you back off, most likely they'll chalk it up to someone who *could* be a nice guy, but stepped out of bounds. People make well-intentioned mistakes. They get overly excited. It happens. IF you continue your obsession and attempts to get into their space, then you're stalking.

I think this is where tabloids blur the lines, actually. They don't back off, or respect the other person's space / privacy, even when said person is on their "own" time. They DO stalk people, but don't often face the same consequences as non-photog stalkers.
 

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I don't know that I would call any of this "benevolent" stalking, even if he hadn't crossed the line. To me, you'd have to be stalking them in order to protect them from a real threat or to help them in some other way for it to be benevolent. (Kyle Reese benevolently stalked Sarah Conner in The Terminator.) Benevolent stalking would be solely for the good of the target; when the stalker is interested and the target isn't, I don't see the stalking benefiting anyone but the stalker.

I guess activities that have the potential to make the target uncomfortable could be "benign" stalking if the target is never actually uncomfortable.

When I was in college, a guy started showing up at all the same places I was. Eventually, I asked him if he was following me around. He sort of shrugged. But he never asked me out, never made any advances, never appeared threatening. Never emailed me or called or showed up at my apartment. I figured if he actually was following me around, then he was sort of a harmless guy who might have liked me but didn't really know how he actually felt or what he was doing. But it didn't really affect me, so I'd call that sort of a benign stalking.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?

At what point does obsession become stalking?

I don't know. Have you ever seen the movie I Think We're Alone Now about two people who believe the singer Tiffany is in love with them? This one guy believed that Tiffany was in love with him, but he seemed to accept that she had a fiance. She had a restraining order against him when she was a teenager, but his behaviour now probably isn't much different than any other fan. He just showed up to all her events, like fans do.

I suppose it's possible to believe someone is in love with you, and still respect their decision not to be with you. I know a lot of us have had to break up with people we loved and/or believed still loved us. In some cases, that belief may come from self delusion or cluelessness, but I suppose it's also possible for those people to respect the boundaries of others.
 

thedark

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When I was in college, a guy started showing up at all the same places I was. Eventually, I asked him if he was following me around. He sort of shrugged. But he never asked me out, never made any advances, never appeared threatening. Never emailed me or called or showed up at my apartment. I figured if he actually was following me around, then he was sort of a harmless guy who might have liked me but didn't really know how he actually felt or what he was doing. But it didn't really affect me, so I'd call that sort of a benign stalking.

When I was in college, a guy also started showing up at all the same places I was. He did ask me out, and in my naivety, I accepted a date with him. Quickly discovered that was the end of the line for me, but it wasn't for him. He was... everywhere. Waiting for me after every class, sitting a table over at the Student Union. Watching from beside the windows in the library.

It was when he started riding the same bus on the same line with me that I went to campus police.

Told them how long it'd been going on for. Also told them I was only 16 years old, and while he'd never threatened me, I felt very unsafe. I already had and have another stalking situation, so a second one was more than I could handle.

They told me he wasn't a student.

He just hung out on campus. He was 32.

And when I left the campus police office, his best friend was leaning against the open door to the police office, where he'd heard every word I said.

I can't even describe how I felt when I saw him there.

Fortunately, the campus police did their job, booted the stalker off campus, and I never saw him again.

If only it were so simple with the other situation.

But as benign as this one was, as Heza's was, there's really no such thing as a good stalker.

Getting into their minds... that's the creepiest thing. Like this article showed, the stalker tends to genuinely think they're doing the right thing by their victim. Maybe because they "love" the victim, or know what's right for them, or want to save/protect them.

My ongoing stalker situation is about saving me from myself, from my "evil ways", from society and a world that has corrupted me and turned me against said stalkers. And then there's the pure "revenge for escaping them in the first place" part.

As I told them last time they came for me, over their dead body would I go back with them.

I was armed.

This guy's British/Scottish victim isn't.

Sometimes, when I read something that like, beyond the normal reaction of wanting to bitch slap / pistol whip the stalker, I want to ask him if he's ever thought about the danger he's putting himself in. Some of us aren't victims.

And some of us have families we'll do anything to protect.

~ Anna, who'll be spending her afternoon at the women's shelter, giving a statement to allow her & family to register to vote confidentially. Only confidential voters in our half of the state, and each time, it takes 6 hours to register. Thanks, stalkers.
 

benbradley

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Is it possible to be "benevolently obsessed" without stalking?

At what point does obsession become stalking?

(I think this dude very obviously jumped the shark into stalking; just thoughts for discussion.)

Well, I think obsession on its own may not be a problem if it doesn't lead to unwanted or threatening behavior.
Yes, this. Obsession describes thoughts and feelings, not actions. Just because one has a feeling doesn't necessarily mean one has to take an action based on it.

As far as "benevolent [sic] stalking," this guy is clearly ignoring signs that he's not wanted. Whether that's conscious on his part or not doesn't matter. Whether he feels "belevolent" or not doesn't matter. It's his actions that make this a crime.
Having thoughts isn't the same thing as committing a crime.
This. Having thoughts by itself isn't a crime. Not yet, anyway.
 

mccardey

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I'm not even sure what Facebook stalking is.

I think - but I could be wrong - that facebook stalking is when you go and read somebody else's facebook page to see what they're up to (and whether they saw the dentist yet.)
 

robjvargas

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I think - but I could be wrong - that facebook stalking is when you go and read somebody else's facebook page to see what they're up to (and whether they saw the dentist yet.)

Crap. I've been stalking my mom!

Seriously, sorry for all that you all have been through. Sadly, I kinda stepped into this from the stalker side.

I never meant to. Small college. A trio of women that I found very attractive. They were spoken for, and I thought I was respecting that.

A middle finger from one of them one day revealed that they didn't agree.

But when the cafeteria is open for two hours, you tend to run into each other. Know what I mean? I stayed away. But I stared. And I knew it. Didn't intend it, but I knew I was guilty of it.

I bumped into one of them the next year and apologized for my creepiness. She apologized back, saying it was never that creepy. I think she was being nice. Or trying to get rid of me.

Anyway, a collective "sorry" to you all.
 

thedark

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Anyway, a collective "sorry" to you all.

I think you're okay. You didn't follow them home, and you didn't plan a "fake kidnapping" for them.

There's a line. And being aware you're crossing it is half the battle.

~ Anna
 

mccardey

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I think you're okay. You didn't follow them home, and you didn't plan a "fake kidnapping" for them.

There's a line. And being aware you're crossing it is half the battle.

~ Anna

Provided you stop, of course.
 

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I agree, it's not stalking if you don't know it's not welcome nor even that they notice you're admiring them. I'd say the one in the wrong there was the one who let you know that by flipping you off.
 

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I agree, it's not stalking if you don't know it's not welcome nor even that they notice you're admiring them. I'd say the one in the wrong there was the one who let you know that by flipping you off.
I disagree. If a guy parks outside a woman's house every day for a month without her noticing he's watching her, I'd still call that stalking.
 

Fruitbat

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I disagree. If a guy parks outside a woman's house every day for a month without her noticing he's watching her, I'd still call that stalking.

Yes, that does sound creepy now that you mention it.
 
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kaitie

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I don't think not knowing it's unwelcome is a reason to say it isn't stalking. Part of the problem with stalkers is that they truly don't seem to understand that their behavior is inappropriate or unwelcome. I think there should just be a general understanding that certain behaviors are going to be creepy in general, like waiting around for someone after every class, or always being outside their apartment building. To be honest, I think I'd even be freaked out if a guy I was dating and interested in was always around.

And I think the second someone has said, "I'm not interested," no behavior that pushes the issue is appropriate, period. The second someone thinks, "She'll change her mind," there is a very serious issue.

As far as I know, I haven't been actively stalked, but there was a guy who I used to see everywhere when I was on campus. If I came out of a building, he was there. If I went into my apartment, or out of it, he was there. If I went to eat lunch somewhere, he was there. Once he had even been going into the apartment building (we both lived there) and when he saw me leaving, turned around and followed me out instead.

He creeped the hell out of me. He certainly never showed any interest and never actually spoke to me, but it seemed like far too much to be coincidence. I used to carry a long umbrella around so I had something to fight back with if he ever came near me.

His behavior was inappropriate, in my opinion, even though he never so much as said a word to me.
 

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When you see a gorgeous sunset, you pause and you look, right? When it happens again the next night, you look again, right?

That's how it was for me. I didn't feel any relationship, nor owed anything. I felt creepy doing it. I thought the woman who flipped me off was rude, but also who was I to object? I didn't think of them as objects like a sunset, either. It was just pleasing on the eyes. I was just about as socially inept as a guy my age could be.

No defense. Just stating plainly where my head was at that time.
 

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I think the definition of a stalker is subjective. I think you've become a stalker if you're obsessed (like when an animal stalks a prey, they're very focused), and when a person has become obsessed is defined differently for everyone. And I think that's why these stalkers oftentimes don't realize they've become a stalker -- many of them seem to be socially awkward and don't realize that their actions are coming across more creepy than romantic.

This "benevolent" stalker vs. "malevolent" stalker, I think it's an interesting way to describe it, but I think it's a good way of differentiating things, although I would define it differently: A benevolent stalker is one who really doesn't know better, but once confronted by the victim they stop; but a malevolent stalker is someone who doesn't stop and their actions are now viewed as threatening.
 

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Yes, subjective and also a gray area there. I think it's hard to pin down exactly where the line is crossed between just interested and looking for a chance to meet a particular person or admiring a good looking person more than once. And "stalking" as in criminal offense or even as in clearly creepy. I'd say one solid indicator, though, is if they're flat out told to stop and don't.
 
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Cyia

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Yes, subjective and also a gray area there. I think it's hard to pin down exactly where the line is crossed between just interested and looking for a chance to meet a particular person or admiring a good looking person more than once. And "stalking" as in criminal offense or even as in clearly creepy. I'd say one solid indicator, though, is if they're flat out told to stop and don't.


Part of the problem with the subjectivity is that all of these behaviors - even the creepiest of the creepy - are often played for laughs on TV. And in the end, the stalker usually gets the girl.

Steve Urkel, anyone? "I'm wearin' you down, Baby! I'm wearin' you dooown!"

Freaky little creep should have been at least 500 yards away with an ankle monitor - especially with a cop's daughter being the object of his affection obsession.

(And we could all probably write a dissertation on the stalk-specimen that is E. Cullen. Again -- cop's daughter!)