Is this lame? Therapy session dialogue to reveal backstory

hearosvoice · Nov 24, 2014

Hey All,

I'm writing a memoir and I have a lot of backstory fragments that I feel are important to share about my childhood and family. My memories aren't complete enough to really write flesh-out scenes. I was thinking of using dialogue with my psychiatrist as a literary device to share some of these anecdotes. Is that lame?

My story starts with me getting committed to a psych hospital at age 25 then goes back to the beginning and proceeds chronologically. And I actually did have a scene of dialogue with my psychiatrist shortly after my commitment in the beginning of the book, so it sort of flows alright...I would just flesh it out into a looong session/conversation to fill up a chapter.

After this session, I would then go back to important events from childhood where my memory is complete enough to flesh out full scenes. Ultimately, I return to getting committed to the hospital and reveal the reason why that happened in the end.

Any thoughts?

rwm4768 · Nov 24, 2014

I don't know much about writing memoirs, but it would seem odd to me. Unless you're one of those strange people with a perfect memory, how can you recall a conversation with your psychiatrist from years ago?

hearosvoice · Nov 25, 2014

I feel as though revealing these anecdotes in dialogue in a therapy session would be more realistic than trying to flesh out full scenes out of them. They would all fit into customary questions asked at the beginning of a therapy engagement: questions about relationships with family, childhood, etc. Basically, i would craft an interview to reveal this backstory rather than writing about it as scenes.

Bufty · Nov 25, 2014

I really don't get this at all. Am I misunderstanding?

You can't recall what happened in these anecdotes so you're going to use dialogue to cover them?

hearosvoice · Nov 25, 2014

Bufty said:
I really don't get this at all. Am I misunderstanding?

You can't recall what happened in these anecdotes so you're going to use dialogue to cover them?

For example, my brother was an unruly adolescent growing up. He would often spit on, verbally abuse, and threaten to physically hurt my mother. Usually for no legitimate reason.

Instead of writing out a scene as an example (where I am lacking details), I could simply go:

"What is was brother's relationship like with your mother growing up?" asked the Dr. Therapist.

"It was horrible. Whenever he'd get mad at her, he would do all sorts of awful things. Spit on her, berate her, threaten to hit her, etc." I replied.

A scene, to me, would be something like.

On June 23rd, 1998, my mom tried to punish my brother for cutting class by preventing him from going to his beloved soccer practice later that day. At 3:30 PM, the usual time my mother would drive him to practice, my brother cornered her in the kitchen and screamed, "You $%^ing b$%^&!" He was so confident that he would eventually get his way that he was even dressed in his soccer practice gear. But my mom tried to stand her grand. She maneuvered over to the kitchen sink to do some dishes, trying to ignore his screaming. But then he lunged forward, grabbed the dish from her hand, threw it against the wall, and spit in her face."

Obviously, if I remember enough specific details about specific incidents, the scenes would be more compelling. but I simply don't. However, since my brother's adolescent deliquesce is important to the story, I'm thinking of sharing it through a dialogue with a therapist, but more as an overview since i'm lacking specific details to make scenes.

Bufty · Nov 25, 2014

I still don't get it.

As a reader I only know what I read, and the reality/accuracy and relevance of content is up to you. The extent to which you use made-up stuff in a memoir is your decision.

If it's a choice between the shown made-up 'scene' or the shown made-up dialogue I prefer the scene in this particular case. There's nothing memorable about the dialogue.

hearosvoice · Nov 25, 2014

Bufty said:
I still don't get it.

As a reader I only know what I read, and the reality/accuracy and relevance of content is up to you. The extent to which you use made-up stuff in a memoir is your decision.

If it's a choice between the shown made up-scene or the shown made-up dialogue I prefer the scene in this particular case. There's nothing memorable about the dialogue.

Well, you pretty much articulated my conundrum. The only thing is that the dialogue wouldn't really be that made up as I've seen many therapists and told this fragmented anecdotes to all of them as they generally ask those questions about family/childhood in the beginning of a therapy engagement.

I agree the scenes though are much more compelling.

Bufty · Nov 25, 2014

Scenes and dialogue are not mutually exclusive, by-the-by.

You're really talking about whether or not to show or tell your brother and mother's relationship.

Devil Ledbetter · Nov 25, 2014

I agree with Bufty.

Putting an info dump into dialogue does not change the fact that it's an info dump, and won't make it more interesting or readable. What you're proposing is dialogue that consists of one person yammering and the other person prompting them along. So, zero conflict and since it's backstory, it's unlikely to move things forward.

robjvargas · Nov 25, 2014

All ideas suck... until one of us takes the idea and turns it into compelling text. Then it's wonderful.

Trust yourself as a reader. As a reader, how you want it expressed in a story? That's the way you do it.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 25, 2014

It doesn't matter if it's lame, it matters if it's boring.

hearosvoice · Nov 26, 2014

mehhhh forget it. i'm not gonna do the therapy session thing. i'm not even gonna try to frame the backstory any particular way. i'm just gonna try to write it however it comes out naturally. organized chronologically rather than by character/relationship though.

I'm not gonna invent flesh-out scenes or composite scenes made of my memory fragments. I'll just do my best to write out the memories I have from childhood as "scene-like" as possible then fill in the rest with witty commentary.

cornflake · Nov 26, 2014

hearosvoice said:
For example, my brother was an unruly adolescent growing up. He would often spit on, verbally abuse, and threaten to physically hurt my mother. Usually for no legitimate reason.

Instead of writing out a scene as an example (where I am lacking details), I could simply go:

"What is was brother's relationship like with your mother growing up?" asked the Dr. Therapist.

"It was horrible. Whenever he'd get mad at her, he would do all sorts of awful things. Spit on her, berate her, threaten to hit her, etc." I replied.

A scene, to me, would be something like.

On June 23rd, 1998, my mom tried to punish my brother for cutting class by preventing him from going to his beloved soccer practice later that day. At 3:30 PM, the usual time my mother would drive him to practice, my brother cornered her in the kitchen and screamed, "You $%^ing b$%^&!" He was so confident that he would eventually get his way that he was even dressed in his soccer practice gear. But my mom tried to stand her grand. She maneuvered over to the kitchen sink to do some dishes, trying to ignore his screaming. But then he lunged forward, grabbed the dish from her hand, threw it against the wall, and spit in her face."

Obviously, if I remember enough specific details about specific incidents, the scenes would be more compelling. but I simply don't. However, since my brother's adolescent deliquesce is important to the story, I'm thinking of sharing it through a dialogue with a therapist, but more as an overview since i'm lacking specific details to make scenes.

What's the point of a scene like that in your memoir though?

You're talking about lots of anecdotes and chronological scenes like this, but do you need them at all? What's the memoir about?

hearosvoice · Nov 26, 2014

cornflake said:
What's the point of a scene like that in your memoir though?

You're talking about lots of anecdotes and chronological scenes like this, but do you need them at all? What's the memoir about?

Well the crux of the story is a medical issue that was directly affected by the context and circumstances, including family dysfunction.

Laer Carroll · Nov 26, 2014

Fine, hearosvoice, the question was answered to YOUR satisfaction. But it's a general question interesting to more than you. And the general answer is: Almost ANY technique can work if it's done well and works within the story.

Your particular context is a therapy session. The dialogue could also be between two friends just chatting, two strangers with time on their hands, or many other contexts. The same problems go with most dialogues, and need to be solved for the dialogue to work. These include the following.

Does the scene seem to most people to happen naturally? That is, not forced by the author.
Is what's being said interesting?
Are the matters discussed important to the story?
[FONT=&quot]Etc.[/FONT]

Jamesaritchie · Nov 26, 2014

cornflake said:
What's the point of a scene like that in your memoir though?

You're talking about lots of anecdotes and chronological scenes like this, but do you need them at all? What's the memoir about?

A better question, I think, is what would be the point of leaving out such a scene?

RichardGarfinkle · Nov 26, 2014

Scenes like that can be made to work. Indeed, they make it simpler to write a stronger exploration of reaction to events than straight first person narrative.

The device has been used in novels to great success. For example, Fredrick Pohl's Hugo winning SF novel Gateway has a number of sessions with an AI psychiatrist.

xDream · Nov 26, 2014

I think it depends on how it's executed. I would write it out both ways and see which one you like better.

neandermagnon · Nov 26, 2014

If the problem is that you don't remember all the details, then you don't need to write the things you remember as actions scenes as though they're happening in the here and now, full of all the details. You could write them as memories, e.g. write about yourself at an older age remembering bits and pieces, not complete memories, maybe as flashbacks or just glimpses of memories.

There are probably a lot of ways you could write about half-remembered things that don't involve writing the whole incident in vivid detail. Sometimes, half-remembered things, with details missing, are more vivid for the reader, as the reader's imagination fills in the rest.

Susan Coffin · Nov 30, 2014

Lame is in the perception.

If your therapy scene shows what it is supposed to show, and it is done well, and it keeps the interest of the reader, then you have done your job.

mirandashell · Nov 30, 2014

hearosvoice said:
mehhhh forget it. i'm not gonna do the therapy session thing. i'm not even gonna try to frame the backstory any particular way. i'm just gonna try to write it however it comes out naturally. organized chronologically rather than by character/relationship though.

I'm not gonna invent flesh-out scenes or composite scenes made of my memory fragments. I'll just do my best to write out the memories I have from childhood as "scene-like" as possible then fill in the rest with witty commentary.

I'm guessing you are still writing the first draft? If so, your work has only just begun if you're looking to publish.

I agree you should write the way you are comfortable with writing. Get the story out and on the page.

Only then can you know if the therapy sessions can act as a framing device or as backstory or as whatever you want them to be. And trust your instincts on what works for now. Get the story out and then think about how to mold. The most important thing right now is to tell the story to yourself.

I'm saying this because it's important not to let anyone else derail your story. I cannot emphasise the importance of this enough. Too many people have given up on a first draft because they let other people's opinions get in the way.

Write it, polish it and then show it to us when you are confident it's the story you want to tell.

hearosvoice · Dec 4, 2014

mirandashell said:
I'm guessing you are still writing the first draft? If so, your work has only just begun if you're looking to publish.

I agree you should write the way you are comfortable with writing. Get the story out and on the page.

Only then can you know if the therapy sessions can act as a framing device or as backstory or as whatever you want them to be. And trust your instincts on what works for now. Get the story out and then think about how to mold. The most important thing right now is to tell the story to yourself.

I'm saying this because it's important not to let anyone else derail your story. I cannot emphasise the importance of this enough. Too many people have given up on a first draft because they let other people's opinions get in the way.

Write it, polish it and then show it to us when you are confident it's the story you want to tell.

Thanks to all for chiming in.

I definitely agree with you that you sort of need to keep your cards close to your vest in the sense that you have to let your story incubate privately before other opinions become relevant.

Joe G. · Dec 5, 2014

Similar framing devices are used in film all the time. For example, Alejandro Amenábar did a great job with it in Abre los ojos (remade here as Vanilla Sky). There's nothing lame about it, in my opinion.

hearosvoice · Dec 6, 2014

Joe G. said:
Similar framing devices are used in film all the time. For example, Alejandro Amenábar did a great job with it in Abre los ojos (remade here as Vanilla Sky). There's nothing lame about it, in my opinion.

I agree, I'm realizing the concept itself is fine but it depends how you execute it. But I think I would make it lame, lol. I would probably just end up info-dumping with thinly veiled dialogue. The therapy sessions themselves (outside of the backstory dialogue) would be mildly interesting, but not interesting enough.

I think I really need to architect a plot outline for these fragmented memories and establish meaningful connections between them to create a sense of cause and effect between them.

JustSarah · Dec 6, 2014

Don't know much about writing memoirs, but that used to be how I got to know characters. So I see nothing wrong with it.

Is this lame? Therapy session dialogue to reveal backstory

hearosvoice

rwm4768

practical experience, FTW

hearosvoice

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

hearosvoice

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

hearosvoice

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

robjvargas

Jamesaritchie

hearosvoice

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

hearosvoice

Laer Carroll

Aerospace engineer turned writer

Jamesaritchie

RichardGarfinkle

Nurture Phoenixes

xDream

Hopeful Fish

neandermagnon

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

mirandashell

hearosvoice

Joe G.

hearosvoice

JustSarah