Does swore rhyme with war?

In the immortal words of Edwin Star, "War, huh, what is it good for."

King Neptune said:

I speak the common and ordinary speech of New England.

Do you pronounce "merry", "Mary", and "marry" the same?

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Of course, because they are pronounced the same.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Of course, because they are pronounced the same.

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I pronounce "merry" differently. It's /ε/ instead of /a/.

I hold the /a/ in "marry" for a half-beat longer than in "Mary".

Shadow_Ferret said:

I...

I'm not sure what dialect rhymes "war" with "paw." One ends in an or (store, core, bore, door, lore, chore, more) , and the other ends with a soft aw, like you saw something cute (law, caw, raw).

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They all have the same sound in any non-rhotic accent.

Jamesaritchie said:

They don't rhyme. It isn't how anyone pronounces a word that matters, how the word is supposed to be pronounced is all that counts.

Accent does not count. Readers of a poem may have a hundred different accents, a hundred different dialects. The only way for them all to agree on any rhyme is to use the dictionary pronunciation for that word.

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shadowwalker said:

If you want words to rhyme, and you're looking at readers from more than just your own dialectic area, then yes, there are "proper" pronunciations to use - in the dictionary. It's like grammar - if you want to communicate clearly to a diverse group of people, you use the tools that will accomplish that. Using "what people actually say" will lead to a Tower of Babel situation - as evidenced by the questions in this thread.

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Which dictionary are we talking about, exactly? Different dictionaries have different pronunciations of the same words, depending on which English dialect they are representing. (Let's not even talk about different dictionaries using different IPA schemes for the same standard accent, cf. The Macquarie vs. the Australian Oxford, grumble grumble.)

OP, those words rhyme in my pretty standard non-rhotic accent.

Is there a term for words that nearly rhyme?
e.g. swore/war, tool/rule

semi-rhyme

(shameful inquiry to be sure)

Shadow_Ferret said:

In the immortal words of Edwin Star, "War, huh, what is it good for."



Of course, because they are pronounced the same.

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Not by anyone that I talk with.

Ken said:

Is there a term for words that nearly rhyme?
e.g. swore/war, tool/rule

semi-rhyme

(shameful inquiry to be sure)

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Half-rhyme or slant rhyme, but it usually refers to words that are a bit further apart.

I don't think there's a word for words that rhyme in one accent or dialect but not another.

Albedo said:

Which dictionary are we talking about, exactly? Different dictionaries have different pronunciations of the same words, depending on which English dialect they are representing.

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I would assume one would go by whichever dictionary is standard for the country in which one lives. The point being one should, if they want wide readership and understanding, go with standardized pronunciations rather than dialect. Again, this is predicated on the assumption that the entire limerick is not written in dialect.

Albedo said:

They all have the same sound in any non-rhotic accent.

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Well, at least no one speaks with rhotic replacement disorder except Scooby Do.

King Neptune said:

Not by anyone that I talk with.

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So you all speak incorrectly. That's fine. But we're talking about dictionary rhymes versus dialectical rhyme. Aren't we? Unless you're writing poetry for a regional magazine.

King Neptune said:

Not by anyone that I talk with.

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Just to add my 2 cents worth, I've lived in New England my whole life and I and most everyone I know pronounce Mary, merry, and marry the same. It's also helpful to remember that there is no one New England accent.

Anaquana said:

Just to add my 2 cents worth, I've lived in New England my whole life and I and most everyone I know pronounce Mary, merry, and marry the same. It's also helpful to remember that there is no one New England accent.

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Do you live in Berkshire County?

King Neptune said:

Do you live in Berkshire County?

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No, I live in Hampden County.

Shadow_Ferret said:

I...

I'm not sure what dialect rhymes "war" with "paw." One ends in an or (store, core, bore, door, lore, chore, more) , and the other ends with a soft aw, like you saw something cute (law, caw, raw).

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I'm fairly certain my accent isn't like Mirandashell's but I rhyme all those.

King Neptune said:

Do you pronounce "merry", "Mary", and "marry" the same?

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I don't. (I know that wasn't addressed to me, but wotthehell.

Shadow_Ferret said:

So you all speak incorrectly. That's fine.

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It's not incorrect. Both are valid pronunciations. Pronouncing them differently is more correct historically, but less common today. See the merry/marry/Mary merger.

kuwisdelu said:

Half-rhyme or slant rhyme, but it usually refers to words that are a bit further apart.

I don't think there's a word for words that rhyme in one accent or dialect but not another.

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Thanks. Researched the terms on Wikipedia:

A half-rhyme or slant-rhyme, sometimes called near-rhyme or lazy rhyme, are rhymes created out of words with similar but not identical sounds. In most instances, either the vowel segments are different while the consonants are identical, or vice versa. This type of rhyme is also called approximate rhyme, inexact rhyme, off rhyme, analyzed rhyme, or suspended rhyme.

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Interesting.

Helix said:

I don't. (I know that wasn't addressed to me, but wotthehell.

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Of course you don't. No one who from Queensland would make that mistake.

Ken said:

Is there a term for words that nearly rhyme?
e.g. swore/war, tool/rule

semi-rhyme

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Do you give the 'e' in 'swore' (for example) an emphasis that makes it a two syllable word?

For most English speakers, I'm pretty sure that these words all rhyme perfectly.

Rufus Coppertop said:

Do you give the 'e' in 'swore' (for example) an emphasis that makes it a two syllable word?

For most English speakers, I'm pretty sure that these words all rhyme perfectly.

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Yeah, no matter how many times I say those words, even in my grandmother's strong Ozark accent, those words rhyme-rhyme. Not slant rhyme or half rhyme. They're the exact same sounds.

There are different types of rhyme. What type do you want?

End Rhymes
Running
Digging


Internal Rhymes
(Rhymes within the same line of poetry)
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,

Slant Rhymes (or imperfect, partial, near, oblique, off etc.)
Rhyme in which two words share just a vowel sound

Heart
Star

Rich Rhymes
Rhyme using two different words that happen to sound the same (i.e. homonyms)
Raise
Raze

Eye Rhymes
Rhyme on words that look the same but which are actually pronounced differently
Bough
Rough

or

Cant
Want

Identical Rhymes
Ground
Hound
Wound (like I "wound" a clock, not "wound" like "I've been wounded)

I rarely see identical rhyming (at the end of a line) in poetry anymore. Sometimes. Most of the time, it's Internal rhymes and slant rhymes. But, do your thing. Whatever you need for your poem!

Pronunciations diffs are interesting, all right.

Seeing someone post that war and paw rhyme is akin to being told that cat rhymes with cake, or that low is pronounced the same as long. They aren't even in the same ballpark for me.

war = wɔr
paw = pɑʊ

For me, the vowel sound in war is identical to the vowel sound in the first syllable of orderly, or of border.

The vowel sound in paw...well, my southern roots are alive, even if uprooted. Southernfolk do our "aw"/"au" sounds as a diphthong that starts with the "a" sound from father and then heads off into a vowel that's closed off like what you get when you do a "w" sound by itself. Hence, aaah==>www.

Up here in New York, war and paw still don't quite rhyme but they're a lot closer. The aw/au sound in these parts, especially as spoken by Long Islanders, is almost NOT a diphthong—they go straight into a ɔ sound. (Hard to provide an example of that sound by itself—in my own accent that sound simply doesn't tend to occur in isolation but only with an r after it or with an i after it, one or the other. Think of the sound in ordinary before the r or the sound in ointment before the i). Anyway, they end that sound with a little fillip of an "uh" at the end. Youtube clip here.

Long Islanders saying war and paw:

wɔr
pɔǝ

As someone from "up north" I can tell you I say "poor" and "pour" exactly the same. Also "Mary" and "marry" sound the same but not "merry". I say that "war" and "score" rhyme.

Also I will point out that someone from New York has a different accent than someone from New Hampshire who has a different accent than someone from Massachusetts who has a different accent than someone from Vermont. Heck, we say we can tell what part of the state you're from based on your accent.

Of course I think we're all reading too much into the OP's question.

King Neptune said:

It is a matter of localized dialect. To me war does not rhyme with score, swore sore, or chore, but it does rhyme with "maw", "paw", "for", "boudoir".

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Sounds...Bostonian?

Shadow_Ferret said:

So all three sound the same to you? I'd have to hear that because I can't imagine it.

Do pore and paw sound the same to you too?

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No.

jaus tail said:

Another question. Does Heather rhyme with Feature? I need a name that rhymes with feature or teacher. Can any of you guys suggest me any?

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Jack Reacher?