Writing as a Career

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Fruitbat

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... I would love to have a goal to write full time and not worry about a day job... What are the ingredients for reaching that goal?...I don't mean about working hard etc...Thoughts? Suggestions? Go!

Marry someone with a job. *snicker*
 

MarkEsq

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Marry someone with a job. *snicker*

Bad girl, Fruity, bad girl!

Except, yeah. :) My wife has a full-time job and we could get health insurance that way. I now have two novels out, and a non-fiction book, with novels 3 and 4 appearing next year. Sales in 7 countries, contracts for 6 novels total... perfect, right? Except until the checks arrive, I have NO idea how much they are for. I can't plan, I can't budget, I just have to wait.

Plus those pesky education loans, how I curse them!

So I guess I'm agreeing with everyone - it'll depend on your levels of debt and comfort. It's doable for everyone, but we all require different levels of financial success to make it.

And marry someone with a job. :)
 

WriterBN

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And marry someone with a job. :)

That does seem to be the #1 requirement, at least for other writers I know :)

Saying this as someone who is married, has been freelancing for many years, and paying astronomical and ever-increasing sums of money each month to health insurance companies...
 
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wampuscat

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Beachgirl

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Marry someone with a good-paying job. *snicker*

There - fixed that for ya. ;)

My hubby has a job, but it pays less than half of what I make. My seventh book comes out in two days (squee!), but it will take a heck of a lot more to replace my day-job income.
 

chompers

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This thread is a reminder of how much little return you get vs. how much time you put into your writing. So why are there so many people wanting to become writers and even full-time writers?
 

Ken

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Marry someone with a job. *snicker*

... option was addressed in a book on writing by Gardner. "Marrying someone rich is not a bad way to go, but you will be so guilty half the time about being a kept spouse that you won't be able to do much writing." His paraphrased words, not mine :)

Interesting writer, Gardner. Wasn't shy about expressing his opinions. Books on writing (2 I believe) are worth reading. His novel, Grendel (?) is supposedly really top-notch too.
 

Mr Flibble

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Marry someone with a job. *snicker*

Yeah -- marrying someone who is self employed so their income is as variable as a writer's...


At least I don't need to worry about health insurance cos that's all covered. But bills they still need a'paying.

I can get away with working part time though -- writing and the day job currently earn about the same. When we've fixed the house up/paid the mortgage...the kids will be at uni....(and ok they get loans, but still)

We intend to flog the house and buy somewhere cheap then though, so we have some money in the bank. (we live in a very expensive part of the country)
 

itsmary

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This thread is a reminder of how much little return you get vs. how much time you put into your writing. So why are there so many people wanting to become writers and even full-time writers?

We love it so much we can't imagine doing anything else.

Or because we're crazy. But I'm pretty sure it's the first one... :D
 

Brutal Mustang

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It's relative. Depends on your lifestyle. For me, Cathy's $30,000 a year is better than I was ever making as a full time machinist. I could live on that.
 

wampuscat

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This thread is a reminder of how much little return you get vs. how much time you put into your writing. So why are there so many people wanting to become writers and even full-time writers?

Either A. they think they're the exception and might get rich off it or B. they genuinely enjoy writing and do it without the expectation of money or fame.
 

shaldna

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitbat
Marry someone with a well paid job. *snicker*

There - fixed that for ya. ;)
There, fixed it for YA! This is a board for writers after all, no excuse for that sort of grammar.
 
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mccardey

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That does seem to be the #1 requirement, at least for other writers I know :)

I don't think enough consideration has been given to Advertising as a career. I mean - yes the shame, but it pays really well.... ;)
 

bearilou

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This thread is a reminder of how much little return you get vs. how much time you put into your writing. So why are there so many people wanting to become writers and even full-time writers?

I like working for myself. Self-employed, setting my own hours, deciding on what my focus should be on my output is a degree of freedom I have not ever experienced in the corporate, work-a-day job.

It requires a certain degree of discipline and since I'm probably the most undisciplined person on the planet, I like the challenge.
 

itsmary

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Either A. they think they're the exception and might get rich off it or B. they genuinely enjoy writing and do it without the expectation of money or fame.

I would think those in the former category would give up rather quickly.
 

gingerwoman

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I don't think enough consideration has been given to Advertising as a career. I mean - yes the shame, but it pays really well.... ;)
My sister has been making a full time living for the last ten years as a completely freelance journalist/copywriter, but she said she's only taking copywriting jobs now, because the pay for freelance journalists has gone so low.

She started in the 90s when creating web content was new and doesn't much fancy the chances of being trying to break in from scratch now. She's managed to live in relatively expensive Sydney all these years on what she makes, and she seems to always have money to go flying to Thailand or wherever and to the USA. I guess life is pretty different when you don't have kids.
 
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gingerwoman

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... this or something similar. You've gotta write books that sell like hotcakes. Several hundred thousand at minimum, which usually requires a contract with one of the big six. Few achieve that. But a few is still a few. G'luck in joining their ranks. I abandoned that hope long ago. All I want is a book on the shelves. Even if it just makes me a dollar I would be very glad ! :)
This is not really true. There are people making a living writing for publishers who are not Big Five, but these writers are extremely prolific.
 

NeuroFizz

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A few things to consider (some mentioned upstream):

  1. Agents take 15%.
  2. Advances are not paid in one lump sum--they are usually divided into three payments that are spread out during the production of the book (which can take over a year).
  3. Taxes are usually not withheld from checks.
  4. Health insurance costs are the writer's responsibility
  5. Any retirement put-aways are the writer's responsibility (this may seem like something a person can put off, but "retiring" is becoming more of a dream than a likelihood for many Americans. Money put away in a retirement account early in a career has the potential of building to a reasonable amount at retirement age)
  6. The irregularity and unpredictability of paychecks are mentioned by others upstream
  7. Children are expensive (if one wants to reproduce), particularly if you intend they go to college. A good college fund is as golden as a good retirement account, but it requires regular (and early) deposits.
  8. (If married and with children) Working at home may come with some expectations for housework, cooking, childcare, and other tasks that can intrude in the functional workday.
On the plus side (and other can add to these)

  1. Being self-employed allows some interesting deductions from income taxes
  2. A well-employed spouse is golden, but that spouse has to be willing to shoulder most of the financial burden if the writing income is slow or thin (this can become a point of frustration and irritation in the relationship)
  3. Building a good back-list translates into a more regular income, even though it may be somewhat unpredictable in the check amounts.
 

KimJo

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I am writing full-time. I am NOT earning a full-time income from it. *Yet*. I am determined that that will happen.

But my definition of "full-time income" is mine, not everyone's. The last full-time job I had was as a teacher's aide, where I earned about $17,500 per year. So that's my goal for "full-time income" from my writing, at least to start with. In 2013, my earnings were about $4300. With a fricking ton of books out, but they're all from e-pubs and small presses, and some of those publishers do little to no promo or marketing, which puts it ALL on my shoulders. And that isn't good. I'm in the process of doing some major career renovations that I hope will bring me closer to my income goal.

I've been writing for publication since 2009, but 2013 was the year in which writing became my only career. Mainly because health issues have reached the point where I'm not able to hold down a "real" job anymore. However, because I'm designated as disabled, my health insurance and that of my children is covered through our state system. And I have a spouse who calls himself a "1950s guy in the wrong era"; he prefers being the one financially supporting the household, and recently took a second job to supplement the household income. But despite his self-proclaimed 1950s viewpoint, he does NOT expect me to do all the housework and child-related stuff, because he--even before I was completely able to do it--acknowledges writing as full-time work and a real career, and he'd rather have a messy house over having me not write because I have too much housework to do.

I'm kinda lucky...
 

wampuscat

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Either A. they think they're the exception and might get rich off it or B. they genuinely enjoy writing and do it without the expectation of money or fame.

I should clarify that when I made this joke, I was talking solely about fiction writing.

I know several people who make a living writing in various ways (journalism, for corporations, advertising, etc.). I strongly believe, however, that all "writing" jobs are not the same. The skillsets for each differ.

Of course, I also know fiction writers who make a living at their craft, but defining what being a "full-time writer" means is an individual pursuit based on your needs and wants. You don't have to "hit the bestseller list" to be able to write full time, nor does being a bestseller mean you always can afford to write full time.
 
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zenjenn

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Most people that support themselves in ANY creative profession, (artist, musician, writer, etc) have multiple jobs in their creative field. This includes teaching and taking on freelance opportunities that are not ideal. You know, for every rock star, there are thousands of musicians that play for community orchestras, weddings, direct church music programs, and teach students on the side. For a writer, this might mean editing, writing articles or other pieces that are not ideal, and so on.

Of course there are the lucky few....

Most, I think, have a higher-earning spouse and/or a day job.
 

MookyMcD

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Bottom line is: we're in the same boat as everyone else trying to appeal to the aesthetic for a living. Actors, musicians, writers, artists -- very few will break through to the mainstream consciousness. When they do, they can be fabulously wealthy. The odds of that happening to any given artist are astronomically low.

One of my best friends is a sculptor. He has a niche market, is highly collectible in that market, and both he and his wife are involved in the business full time. They do quite well, financially, which he finds hilarious. You're not likely to see their work in a museum or even when studying contemporary American sculpture, I'm sure they've never factored into anyone's assessment of the number of people making sculpting a career, but they're doing it. Not millionaires, but probably equivalent to being a modestly successful lawyer or dentist (and a hell of a lot happier than any lawyer or dentist I know).
 

DeadCities

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Either A. they think they're the exception and might get rich off it or B. they genuinely enjoy writing and do it without the expectation of money or fame.

Both for me. I mean, I'm writing something that I plan to send out into the world one day, of course I hope it is as successful as possible, and at the same time I'm having fun. However, I have a job and I'm going to school, so all my eggs aren't in the writing basket. Even just to have my novel published, successful or not, is acceptable to me. Outside confirmation that I don't suck would be enough. (though as we all know, being published isn't confirmation you don't suck. :p)
 
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