Where there is strength, there is weakness, no? It can be alluded to and slowly engaged, either triumphed in the end or all consuming...
Weak characters
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Weak characters have a proud history in Western fiction, and there's no doubt that it's often the flaws in someone that make them interesting. Most of the characters on my blog are what you would call "weak"; people who are overcome by the world or who have took one too many knocks.
The war novel The Things They Carried is great for this, and such a fantastic piece of literature. Then there are characters who are neither, such as Mersault in The Outsider, that you could maybe call weak in the sense that they aren't strong.
Ps: I just remembered Dostoyevsky's The Idiot, one of my teenage favs.
The war novel The Things They Carried is great for this, and such a fantastic piece of literature. Then there are characters who are neither, such as Mersault in The Outsider, that you could maybe call weak in the sense that they aren't strong.
Ps: I just remembered Dostoyevsky's The Idiot, one of my teenage favs.
Kuw,
I bought a book by my English teacher, out of curiosity...it was "White Crosses" by Larry Watson. I'm not sure if it is what you mean, the MC does his best to whitewash a small-town scandal by a handful of lies but doesn't do much beyond ponder his boring marriage. "Montana 1948" was a somewhat similar theme and another very reluctant/vacillating hero. His brother is accused of a crime, and he does his best to first deny, then finally deal with it. Same author. Both "do something" but take their sweet-ass time getting around to it.
Do those sound at all like what you're getting at?
edit: on re-reading, especially, "White Crosses" sounds like it is in your vein. PM me your addy, if you like, and I will send it out--I'd be curious to your take on if this is "litfic" and if that's why I found it so damn boring....I like me some chases, not just a boatload of mopey introspection, BUT that seems like it might be what you were seeking.
In genre fiction, specifically fantasy, I wonder if Vanyel, Mercedes Lackey's main character in Magic's Pawn, would fit your bill. He's a teenager/young adult, gay, with no sense of self-worth for almost all of the book. Events push him around and he does spend most of his time trying to hide from life.
I'm going to have to disagree entirely with the question at hand here. I think many characters in literature today are indeed emotionally and morally weak, and I much prefer them that way. Who wants to read about somebody who does everything right? Bleh.
Being strong or weak doesn't even always mean physically strong or weak. It can also be a reference to how well the character is developed by the author. And a lot of people will agree there are a lot of 'weak' characters out in liturature today.
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ah, so you mean a coward character, everybody always busy saving his life, including the maiden that used to be saved, eventualy save him instead? an "annoying" character that good for nothing, but somehow people think he's a hero?
and the reader still like him, support him?
how does it sounds?
and the reader still like him, support him?
how does it sounds?
Came across this quote by Ken Follett today and remembered this discussion: “You can’t write novels about people who are timid, risk-averse and passive. Or you can, but they’re called literary novels.”
I don't mind stories like that, but I don't like it when the character whines and complains, and fusses about how bad he has it and how bad his life is and everything sucks, blah, blah . .. . blah!! Oh get over it!!!
I love reading about characters who can't save anyone, least of all themselves. If you're still looking for "weak" literature, I definitely recommend A Prayer for the Dying by Stewart O'Nan. The prose is stark and beautiful, and the book as a whole is terribly sad.
Here's the book description from Amazon.com:
Here's the book description from Amazon.com:
I haven't thought about this enough to have a darn thing to contribute yet but I wanted to come in and say that this thread gave me a lot to think about, which is awesome.
I just wonder if an mc who is constantly running away could hold a person's interest for an entire book? How much running are you talking? I think there still has to be some kind of growth.
I personally loved flawed characters... even weak ones, but I think you'd need to raise the bar each time they react to a challenge. Someone cowering in the corner ever minute would get a little old after a few chapters, I think. Also, in real life, not many people can tolerate somebody who is only whinging or offering excuses every five seconds so I'm not sure people would pay for that experience in a book.
This is a difficult one, but I wish you well. A good challenge, actually (sorry, I can't remember if you are writing this yourself or you just want to read stories like this). But good luck anyway.
I pretty much only read literary fiction. So yeah.
This is a difficult one, but I wish you well. A good challenge, actually (sorry, I can't remember if you are writing this yourself or you just want to read stories like this). But good luck anyway.
I'm not sure it's all that difficult. It's just contrary to most of the advice one hears around here, which is often aimed at genre fiction. Most of the fiction I read and television shows I most enjoy most and most impact me are about the kind weak characters I've described.
In trying to find other novelists like Haruki Murakami, I discovered David Mitchell recently. I have to say, in reading the first chapter of number9dream, in which the narrator constantly imagines all the awesome things he's about to do, only to chicken out each time, and the whole chapter ending with nothing at all actually happening, I kept thinking yes, yes, this is awesome! I was delighted when nothing had happened by the end of the first chapter.
I also enjoy Bret Easton Ellis's and Kazuo Ishiguro protagonists. And many more from anime that really fit the kind of "weak protagonist" I love. As I explained to someone recently via PM, I feel Western literature gives too much attention to heroic, strong characters, and tends to neglect the kinds of passive, weak characters that I tend to find so much more interesting (and can relate to much better).
I also enjoy Bret Easton Ellis's and Kazuo Ishiguro protagonists. And many more from anime that really fit the kind of "weak protagonist" I love. As I explained to someone recently via PM, I feel Western literature gives too much attention to heroic, strong characters, and tends to neglect the kinds of passive, weak characters that I tend to find so much more interesting (and can relate to much better).
Television works because it is a slice of life. Personally, I do enjoy weak characters on tv, but they are usually surrounded by an assortment of varied personalities that make it work. I still think (and I read a lot of literary novels as well as commercial) that growth is needed to hold interest.
That's what I meant by difficult - to hold one's interest right to the end. It wouldn't be easy.
I think the fact that he is dreaming and wants things is appealing. I wouldn't really call him passive or weak, just fearful.
The last paragraph of that chapter, which was the spark--or the Zapdos thunderbolt, actually--that detonated all the tension the chapter set up, my goodness. Rocked my fucking world. Especially the sentence, "I swear." Kind of awesome how a simple sentence like that can convey/reinforce emotion so well. Whoa, I really just used a Pokemon metaphor.
edit: Hmm, he's most reminiscent of Satoru from the second chapter of Ghostwritten, which I'm not sure if you've read. The MC of the "Holy Mountain" chapter is one of his most passive characters, and Jason Taylor from Black Swan Green is on the weak side.
Some of David Mitchell's stylistic quirks would make those who Play By The Rulebook wince. E.g., this sentence, from n9d:
edit 2: I'm a bit surprised that more stories and novels with internal focalization don't have much fantasizing. It's a big part of human experience. n9d-length episodes in everything could be a bit much, but a couple to several sentences sprinkled here and there wouldn't be unreasonable. It's an efficient way to characterize and to convey attitudes and emotions. Picture someone who is socially awkward imagining the Doomsday scenarios he feels will occur during certain interactions, someone who has been exploited indulging in revenge fantasies, or a bored high school student imagining the teacher she hates as a donkey with a human head. Fun stuff.
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Interesting thread. Good reminder that there are all kinds of tastes out there. I can't stand passivity, and it definitely does not fly in genre fiction.
I did nod at your reference to anime, where it often seems that there is a hapless "hero" character who is pushed through the plot by a cadre of assistants/romantic interests. I am under the impression, though, that such a plot is usually supposed to be funny.
I did nod at your reference to anime, where it often seems that there is a hapless "hero" character who is pushed through the plot by a cadre of assistants/romantic interests. I am under the impression, though, that such a plot is usually supposed to be funny.
maybe check out Larry Watson on Amazon at least then, and get a feel. The Sherriff in White Crosses really is a weak character trying to hold his shit marginally together
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