All Things Middle Grade

scope

Commonsensical Maverick
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,763
Reaction score
251
Location
New York
As a follow-up, make it a point to be around middle graders and observe and listen to them, even if from afar. And you really must make it a point to do so. Yes, school observations are great, but their attitudes and voices surround you every day. In the streets, on playgrounds, in your neighborhood, friends or relatives who have kids -- and the list goes on and on. Me, I live a few steps from a beach and a boardwalk, so in addition to the other things I do I sit or walk on the beach or boardwalk and just take in the sights and sounds of children -- mostly middle graders, of course. You have to be able to think as they do when you write for them. They are your muse.
 

RitrChick

Rejoining the Butt in Chair Club
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
414
Reaction score
89
Location
On the brink of Fantasticdom
Yay, I am so happy to have found this thread. I've been all jealous of the YAers with their gobs and gobs of threads, but I really didn't think there were so many of us in the MG boat. It's awesome!! :)

I've written a trunked Women's Fiction and started a YA, but have found myself more drawn to the younger set recently. I like the sense of wonder that is still present in this group. They don't think they know EVERYTHING quite yet. ;)

PLUS, in the Jennifer Laughran thread under "Ask the Agent", she stresses the need for great MG. The bulk of her queries these days are YA (no surprise there). I know we shouldn't be writing for the market and yadda yadda, but I have to say, if there is less competition in the MG market and less market saturation, lemme at it!!
 

Hedgetrimmer

What happened, just there?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
308
Location
At the Point of No Return
Judy and Timp, you're both right. Rather than a true quitting, it probably will end up being a mere hiatus. After publishing several essays and a narrative nonfiction book, I jumped ship and began writing for children. I suppose that in itself was a break from what I'd previously been doing. I spent the next two years writing picture books, and after that the next three years writing MG novels.

Not getting anywhere with any of it, I began to feel like I was spinning my wheels, simply wasting my time. But I know that's not entirely true. What both forms taught me was a more succinct use of words and the ability to keep the prose focused. My adult essays are much better for having done so.

Yet like you say, Judy, having tasted the pleasure of MG, I know I won't be satisfied until I one day get my fill. But that day isn't today, though I remain hopeful for such a tomorrow.
 

MsJudy

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
5,673
Reaction score
1,440
Location
california
Hedge, you have a great ability to dig into a character's voice. Have you tried any literary for-adults writing? Not that it's any easier to break into that market....just that I think a lot of more mature readers would dive into your prose.
 

Hedgetrimmer

What happened, just there?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,491
Reaction score
308
Location
At the Point of No Return
Yeah, I've thought about it. In fact, I've even considered rewriting SWEETNESS as an adult novel. I'm just not sure how to write from a 10-year-old's perspective and still hold a grown-up's interest. Maybe I'll read some adult novels with young MCs. I hear The Secret Life of Bees is very engaging.
 

Jack_Roberts

Scribe of my muse, Annabelle
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
85
Location
Western US
Website
night-children.blogspot.com
Maybe you guys could help me with a problem.
I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy.

Parents are killed by wolves and the MCs are turned into vampires, but it's not gruesome. It's an adventure story where children have to learn how to be good vampires while avoiding the bad guys. Thier ages are 10 and 12 to start with but they age on the inside until thier bodies catch up. The book ends with them looking 12 and 14.

It's not Twilight, Darren Shan or any of the others out there. There is no romance.

So the early ages (10) fit in MG. The tone is adventure like MG. There is the issues of death and slight adiction issues (blood drinking) like YA and thier later ages (12, 14) fit YA.

The rules are making it hard to know where to fit. They will be ageing (I don't want to explain but I found a way to make it work) so the series will progress up to true YA with romance and the other serious issues envolved, but the first stand alone book is simply light adventure following tragedy.

I'm confused.
 
Last edited:

timp67

Guinea pig in the laboratory of God
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
789
Reaction score
1,019
Location
California
Maybe you guys could help me with a problem.
I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy.

I would recommend simply writing the story you want to write! If you decide to purposely target the YA demo, you could amp it up a bit, and if it's MG, you could tone it down a bit, but I would really follow your muse to where it takes you.

Rest assured, the agent/editor you work with will tell you where they choose to place it!
 

Smish

Reads more than she writes.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
8,636
Reaction score
3,087
Location
in the Bouncy Castle
Call it upper-MG. :)

Seriously, though, it's tough to help with these sorts of questions, since we haven't read the novel. But still, can't go wrong with upper-MG...
 

RoseColoredSkies

It's a long and winding road
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
766
Reaction score
53
Location
Brighton
Website
www.sarah-biglow.com
I have novels that will be inching towards the upper side of MG/lower side of YA in the near future (aka whenever I get my butt in gear and actually write them) so i think it's alright for stories (series) to cross the line. I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA so...just write the story, get it as polished as you can and then worry about classifying it.
 

scope

Commonsensical Maverick
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,763
Reaction score
251
Location
New York
Maybe you guys could help me with a problem.
I call my book YA fantasy but it could just as easily be MG fantasy.

The rules are making it hard to know where to fit. They will be ageing (I don't want to explain but I found a way to make it work) so the series will progress up to true YA with romance and the other serious issues envolved, but the first stand alone book is simply light adventure following tragedy.

I'm confused.


Jack, I'm confused also.

Sure there are times when we begin writing either a MG or YA work and after a while discover our audience to be older or younger. So we change our focus mid-stream, not after completion. Or, in some rare instances we complete a work written for one age group and then realize it fits better elsewhere. But you question begs all of this a bit. You wrote for a YA audience but now think that the first book of this would-be series would be compatible for middle-graders, specifically age 10. IMO you would have to believe, as would agents and editors, that the work is for all MG reader ages (meaning under age 10), and not just applicable to 10 year olds and YA's if you want to pitch the MG market. Best bet might be to say YA with fall over into upper MG (book 1).
 
Last edited:

Jack_Roberts

Scribe of my muse, Annabelle
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
85
Location
Western US
Website
night-children.blogspot.com
Best bet might be to say YA with fall over into upper MG (book 1).

Yeah Scope, looking over some of the MG posts I'm seriously thinking it's "low end YA". I mean it works for 10-14 yr old readers and tested well with 12 yr old to adult beta readers.

I think I'll stick with YA. Thanks, people, for being a sounding board.
 

Jack_Roberts

Scribe of my muse, Annabelle
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
85
Location
Western US
Website
night-children.blogspot.com
I have novels that will be inching towards the upper side of MG/lower side of YA in the near future (aka whenever I get my butt in gear and actually write them) so i think it's alright for stories (series) to cross the line. I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA so...just write the story, get it as polished as you can and then worry about classifying it.

LOL
Thats the prob! It is written and polished. It's in the query stage now while I work on the sequil.

Yeah. I think it's lower YA.
Thanks!
 

MissKris

Is the random.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
317
Location
Kate brought me.
Website
www.kristindmiller.com
It's amazing how the MG and YA genres are growing and changing. It sure can be tough to figure out where novels should go, sometimes. I remember thinking that when I read The Graveyard Book. The story was very MG, except for the very emotional/hard for me to read beginning.

Also, wanted to announce . . . I HAVE AN AGENT!!! Gah, I'm so excited!
 

timp67

Guinea pig in the laboratory of God
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
789
Reaction score
1,019
Location
California
MissKris ...

:hooray: C :hooray: O :hooray: N :hooray: G :hooray: R :hooray: A :hooray: T :hooray: S :hooray: ! :hooray:
 

MsJudy

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
5,673
Reaction score
1,440
Location
california
I mean Harry Potter started out probably as upper MG and by the end was upper YA .

I hear this so often, and yet...it isn't true. JKR gave interviews as the last book was coming out in which she said she worked very hard to keep writing for the same 10- to 14-year-old audience she'd started out with, even as Harry got older. And I mean, really. Show me a teen over the age of 15 who picks HP to read over a true YA book like FAT KID RULES THE WORLD or 13 REASONS WHY.

For the last year or two, teens have been reading HP because they were kids when they started the series and they wanted to finish it. But really? It's an MG series. Dark MG, maybe, but not as dark as some. In general, the kids I know read the whole series somewhere between second and sixth grades. After that, they move on to more mature books. Or else they don't like reading enough to want to take on a series of 800-page books.

Of course there are exceptions, and I don't mean to get an argument started. But...
 

Kitty Pryde

i luv you giant bear statue
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,090
Reaction score
2,165
Location
Lost Angeles
But all the sweet little pumpkins who picked up the first HP and picked their way through it acquiring a love of reading could NOT have done the same if it was as long or as filled with teen angst and death as the last book was. They just wouldn't be able to get through it.
 

MissKris

Is the random.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
317
Location
Kate brought me.
Website
www.kristindmiller.com
Yeah! How long did you search before landing one?
This is the second book I've subbed, although I only sent the first one to maybe 15 agents. I began querying in June. A week ago I heard back from an agent that had my full. She was passing, but she still loved the ms and ended up referring me to another agent. Agent 2 read it and offered a couple days later.

Soooo, three months or so?

I have a dear friend who landed an agent in a weekend, another who took nearly a year to find the right one. It can be all over the board, really.