The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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T42

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My point being that sometimes you have to start all over with a clean slate and sometimes you have to sacrifice a few to save many? Just a question:)
 

AnneMarble

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DaveKuzminski said:
As to the last laugh, we don't want PA to be laughing about how they cheated you just like all the others.
Just as Larry and Willem (PA co-owners) and their armed goons ... I mean security guards... were laughing when the fire alarm went off during the dinner at PA's own conference. What person in their right of mind laughs when they're in a room full of people in a hotel, and the fire alarm went off, right in the middle of a conference you've organized for your own company? Hmmmmm.
:poke:

I don't like it when the PA Stooges laugh, because it means someone has been screwed again. Only the real Stooges are allowed to laugh. Nyuck nyuck nyuck.
 

T42

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I can't imagine PA having to close it's door being something that would hurt those that are good authors and already on the path of doing great things.
 

Jaws

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gena140 said:
I will ask for her permission to post her name and her firm's name on this site and you may tell her that she's not a contract lawyer.
</gloves>Gena, I'm afraid that your ignorance about the legal profession is showing.
  • If you had read my message at all, you would have drawn the conclusion not that nobody can say that he/she is a "contract lawyer," but that such a general description is meaningless.
  • Your attorney can't (and probably wouldn't anyway) object to your identification of him/her as your attorney. That's entirely your decision. In fact, it's the other way around: Only exceptional circumstances allow an attorney to blindly say "I'm x's lawyer" without permission from the client.
  • You have, despite several very specific suggestions that the correct attorney to review a publishing contract is an attorney whose practice deals with publishing contracts, continued to insist that a generalist (if that is a fair description of your attorney) is more than adequate. That certainly shows that you're willing to stick to your position. So was the emperor after that notorious visit to the "tailor."
A writer must learn from his/her mistakes to advance as a writer, let alone in the publishing business. The past few hours here have not demonstrated that you're willing to do so, or at least not in this (far-from-trivial) area.
Yes, as a matter of fact this is a personal attack. I am disgusted by the attitude you have displayed to people who offer you knowledge that they have that you clearly do not. It is exactly that attitude that makes deceptive practices like PublishAmerica's work. It is exactly that attitude that allows miscreants like Dorothy Deering (who spent 47 months with free room, board, and clothing at Club Fed for her all-too-similar scheme) to continue with their deception. I'm not blaming the victim; I'm irritated because your refusal to recognize that you're wrong about PublishAmerica and its contract is taking energy away from the efforts of others&#151;not just me&#151;to try to provide some accurate and relatively dispassionately presented information.
I will not respond to any further attempts to prod the shark.
 

JennaGlatzer

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Hi and welcome, Marlene and Gena. Sorry I'm late. Had a deadline to meet.

Gena, I lived in Greenville, SC... one of the reasons I left was that it was the most racist place I'd ever seen. Don't know if that's some of what's affecting your image of publishing, but if so, ((((hugs)))). Move to NY! :)

I do know several black writers who've landed commercial publishing contracts... in fact, I recently hooked up a black writer with a publishing contract, if I may be immodest. You might also want to check out Karyn Langhorne, an AW columnist who posts here and has a 2-book deal with Harper Collins. http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/after_the_sale.htm

Obviously, the reception you're getting here has to do with the way you introduced yourself here-- with a lot of condescending remarks and assertions that you were suckering us into clicking your site, etc. Let's start over. I can see that you can do better than that.

Of course you're welcome to share your experiences here, and I'd never ban anyone for having a difference of opinion. There's one basic rule here: respect your fellow writers. If you can handle that, we'll get along just fine.

The reason everyone is predicting your future is that many of the people you're chatting with right now once felt exactly like you did. They came into this thinking, "I know what I'm getting into. I read my contract." Then they busted their butts on promotion and found out that no matter how hard they worked and how much publicity they managed to get, they still sold fewer than 1,000 books. Compare that to a recent example of mine: I have a book called Words You Thought You Knew that I've done nothing whatsoever to promote other than having a link to it on my site. It's sold 15,000 copies this year and I never even had to ask a bookstore to carry it. They just automatically stocked it because my publisher (Adams Media, in that case) has a good sales record, sent them catalogues, got some trade reviews, and had sales reps who went to the bookstore chains to talk them into stocking it. Meanwhile, I got to work on my next book and my next.

I'm not a disgruntled PA author. I'm here because I don't want any more great books to get "lost." It makes me miserably sad that so many authors feel deceived because of PA's misleading language and all they've done to thwart authors' efforts to get their books stocked in stores. (See the "condensed" thread here for the ways PA hurts authors' chances at real, nationwide sales.)

If I find time, I'll respond in more depth later.
 

gena140

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James D. Macdonald said:
For myself, I'm not trying to shut down PublishAmerica. I'm trying to get them to clean up their act. They won't need non-disparagement clauses if their dealings are all honest and above-board. Do they need false and misleading language on their webpage? Do they need deceptive and harmful clauses in their contract? No, they don't. What stops them from being totally upfront about their business model?

Those ten won't be harmed by PA's new-found honesty. Other authors, who are trying to make decisions about their own paths, will be helped if they know exactly what PA's business model is, what they do and don't do, what they can and can't deliver.

Let me quote something else here:

I totally agree with getting them to clean up their act vs getting them shut down.

I come in and say I read and had a lawyer read my contract and I'm told my lawyer is bad.

To me that's unfair and shows a unfair bias against anyone who isn't totally against PA.

I've acknowledged their shortcomings...but I choose to try to fight against that. When I'm successful then maybe it will be easier for the next guy, or even some of you guys.

If someone sues PA for not getting large volumes in a timely manner, to me the point would be to get volumes in a timely manner...not to stop them from publishing another person.

If someone sues PA for misleading words in a contract, then to me they will start to reword the contract (as some stated they have) so that they don't get sued again.

But several thousand authors are with them and some are happy. Honestly I don't even know if it's 1% or 50% but I do know that all of those people are not stupid, and neither am I.

The point should be to show PA's unreputable practices and find solutions for those who've signed, as well as hope for those who may sign without the benefit of a lawyer, or this website.

Not to totally shut down, and condemn anyone who deals with them at all.
 

reph

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gena140 said:
Some people didn't like my initial approach and I understand that so I was asked question to prove my stupidity in the business, which I answered regarding plates.
No, not to prove your stupidity. To show you some of how PA takes advantage of people's trust. That section about plates in PA's contract is meaningless. POD books aren't printed from plates. Printing plates are sheets of copper that serve as masters for a different method of printing, offset lithography (someone please correct me if the details are wrong here). Traditionally, contracts said what would happen to the plates when the contract expired or if it were dissolved. Owning the plates meant you could print the book again without the expense of making new plates. Being copper, they also had value as scrap metal if nobody wanted to use them for printing. Copper isn't cheap.

PA's contract makes new authors who are unfamiliar with printing technology think they'll get something valuable after seven years – the plates – but there's nothing there. A lawyer who specialized in publishing would have spotted this.

We aren't trying to prove you're stupid. We're trying to show that, despite your obvious confidence, you didn't go into a relationship with PA with all the information you needed.
 

T42

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Jaws said:
</gloves>Gena, I'm afraid that your ignorance about the legal profession is showing.
  • to continue with their deception. I'm not blaming the victim; I'm irritated because your refusal to recognize that you're wrong about PublishAmerica and its contract is taking energy away from the efforts of others—not just me—to try to provide some accurate and relatively dispassionately presented information.
I will not respond to any further attempts to prod the shark.
Thank you Jaws!:Clap:
 

Literary Lola

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book_maven said:
Here is what I sent:

Dear Editor,

This column is just awful!

First, it is written as an infomercial rather than a column. It's nothing more than a I-wrote-this-book-and-I-have-this-platform-to-tell-you-to-buy-it.
This was well done. You took the words right out of my fingers. All I could think while reading that article was the only thing missing is *WARNING- PAID ADVERTISEMENT* I can't believe his editor didn't tell the guy to go back and write a real article.
 

Ken Schneider

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Hi Marlene, you can now get your I'm with the Banned tee-shirt.

Shame how they treated you. Once they get the money, they don't care about you, or their product anymore.

Kas,Chang-ling,Ken
 

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AnneMarble said:
Off the top of my head... Jenna Glatner, James Macdonald, Victoria Strauss, Ann Crispin, Sue Grable, Keltora, Dave Kuzminski, Diana Hignutt, Ed Williams...

And others I've forgotten who will then beat me for forgetting them.
:whip:


(raises hand) Mine aren't doing too badly either.

J
 

T42

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James D. Macdonald said:
God destroyed Sodom when there was only one righteous man in it -- and He pulled that righteous man and his family out first.
Alrighty then, let's get the righteous out of POD land and go for it:D
You are so wise....I'd blow ya a kiss but I can't find one:Hug2:
 

DaveKuzminski

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Gena, we didn't say you have a bad lawyer. We're saying you had the wrong type of lawyer look at your contract because it's a PUBLISHING CONTRACT, not some other kind.

Is that clear now?
 
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keltora

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James D. Macdonald said:
God destroyed Sodom when there was only one righteous man in it -- and He pulled that righteous man and his family out first.

I remember seeing some movie made in the 50s or 60s. That bit with Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt gave me nightmares as a child.

But then, so did the scene from Naked Jungle where they found the skeleton in the boat that had been picked clean by fire ants

Strange the things we get squicked by as kids...
 

gena140

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JennaGlatzer said:
Hi and welcome, Marlene and Gena. Sorry I'm late. Had a deadline to meet.

Gena, I lived in Greenville, SC... one of the reasons I left was that it was the most racist place I'd ever seen. Don't know if that's some of what's affecting your image of publishing, but if so, ((((hugs)))). Move to NY! :)

I do know several black writers who've landed commercial publishing contracts... in fact, I recently hooked up a black writer with a publishing contract, if I may be immodest. You might also want to check out Karyn Langhorne, an AW columnist who posts here and has a 2-book deal with Harper Collins. http://www.absolutewrite.com/novels/after_the_sale.htm

I'm a country girl...scared of the big city. lol But it's good to know you understand that in this racist town...a black author is fighting an uphill battle no matter what publisher we choose.

And I don't believe that no black author can suceed but it's difficult.
So for that reason I chose a different route. As stated PA has very few African American authors, so when I approach black bookstores, they don't have a bad taste for PA in thier mouths because I may very well be the first PA author they've seen.

That can/will work to my advantage.

And I understand thier concerns. I'm a flippant person...part of what makes me a writer, but I have and will try to do better.
 

CaoPaux

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reph said:
We aren't trying to prove you're stupid. We're trying to show that, despite your obvious confidence, you didn't go into a relationship with PA with all the information you needed.
Well said! I blame me havin' too much coffee for not sayin' it clear like that. *jitter*
 

gena140

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DaveKuzminski said:

I'm in danger of being banned but you can scream at people??

My lawyer specializes in contracts. ALL CONTRACTS. She has other authors who are with her as well as musicians and others who negotiate for royalties, copyrights, etc.

I understood it cleary and several people did dispute her credibility because she allowed me to sign the PA contract.

Again...I'm not gonna even argue when I speak with her she can speak for herself.
 
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Galoot

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gena140 said:
my website and my book have been insulted
No, actually, your cover has been insulted. Nobody here will insult the book itself. They'll never see it on bookstore shelves.

See ya tomorra sweetie.
I doubt many will see you, cupcake.
twitlist0mv.gif


And that's when I stopped reading.
 

T42

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DaveKuzminski said:
Gena,

Is that clear now?
Good Lord, had to yank my glasses off...next it will be the teeth, then maybe I'll go with the clothes...Okay, now I'm making myself sick:tongue
 

Ken Schneider

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gena140 said:
so when I approach black bookstores, they don't have a bad taste for PA in thier mouths because I may very well be the first PA author they've seen


It's not the job of an author to go around to bookstores for the purpose of placing their book. Another problem with P.A. They don't do the marketing for their authors. I mean, how many bookstores can you drive to and build a readership. You would run out of gas money before you could get enough of them to take your book on.

P.A. is a bad egg for any author to publish with no matter thier reason.

They lie, and that's enough for me.
 
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gena140

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Jaws said:
</gloves>Gena, I'm afraid that your ignorance about the legal profession is showing.
  • If you had read my message at all, you would have drawn the conclusion not that nobody can say that he/she is a "contract lawyer," but that such a general description is meaningless.
  • Your attorney can't (and probably wouldn't anyway) object to your identification of him/her as your attorney. That's entirely your decision. In fact, it's the other way around: Only exceptional circumstances allow an attorney to blindly say "I'm x's lawyer" without permission from the client.
  • You have, despite several very specific suggestions that the correct attorney to review a publishing contract is an attorney whose practice deals with publishing contracts, continued to insist that a generalist (if that is a fair description of your attorney) is more than adequate. That certainly shows that you're willing to stick to your position. So was the emperor after that notorious visit to the "tailor."
A writer must learn from his/her mistakes to advance as a writer, let alone in the publishing business. The past few hours here have not demonstrated that you're willing to do so, or at least not in this (far-from-trivial) area.
Yes, as a matter of fact this is a personal attack. I am disgusted by the attitude you have displayed to people who offer you knowledge that they have that you clearly do not. It is exactly that attitude that makes deceptive practices like PublishAmerica's work. It is exactly that attitude that allows miscreants like Dorothy Deering (who spent 47 months with free room, board, and clothing at Club Fed for her all-too-similar scheme) to continue with their deception. I'm not blaming the victim; I'm irritated because your refusal to recognize that you're wrong about PublishAmerica and its contract is taking energy away from the efforts of others—not just me—to try to provide some accurate and relatively dispassionately presented information.
I will not respond to any further attempts to prod the shark.

You'd have to be someone I know in order to personally attack me. I don't know you and I could care less what you think.

It's been stated and restated, that I am trying to be respectful and not sway anyone on their feelings about PA. I have listened and stated that I am willing to accept the consequences of PA.

AND I have every RIGHT to post my experience and you will NEVER STOP ME FROM DOING THAT!

So please...do us both a favor and put me on ignore because your name is at the top of my ignore list.
 
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