Dragon Age 3: Inquisition

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efkelley

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There's no argument here. They can't tell us the full story. That's it. Hell, most of it probably isn't our business. What IS our business is whether or not we spend money on their games. If they keep producing poor quality games, then I won't spend money on them. Simple.

As for that last bit, I'm happy to entertain, though I'd point out that this pushes your argument towards the troll zone. You've got no stake. You don't care to defend them. So, you quoted me out and took the opposing viewpoint for your own amusement?
 

defcon6000

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Oh, it has nothing to do with EA. I have respect for BioWare and its creators. And I find it endlessly amusing when EA gets scapegoated by people who act as if it couldn't possibly be BioWare who wanted to have done something that they disapprove of.
Probably because EA has a reputation for sucking the soul out of companies and leaving a husk behind.

I remember when Will Wright left Maxis shortly after the release of SPORE with its horrid DRM. Now Maxis titles (the Sims series) are just cash cows. For example, you use to pay $30 for an expansion, and there were no "stuff packs;" the stuff came with the expansion. Now you pay $40 for an expansion that barely includes extra content. Want more outfits and hairs? Buy a stuff pack for $20. Or, go to their online store and pay a ridiculous amount. Seriously, $6 for a single object??? WTF.

It's a rip-off, plain and simple. But it makes EA money, so they don't give a shit. Likewise, I don't feel inclined to give EA my money.
 

lilyWhite

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As for that last bit, I'm happy to entertain, though I'd point out that this pushes your argument towards the troll zone. You've got no stake. You don't care to defend them. So, you quoted me out and took the opposing viewpoint for your own amusement?

You've got no stake either. So why demonize someone just because they express a different view which criticizes yours?

Probably because EA has a reputation for sucking the soul out of companies and leaving a husk behind.

I remember when Will Wright left Maxis shortly after the release of SPORE with its horrid DRM. Now Maxis titles (the Sims series) are just cash cows. For example, you use to pay $30 for an expansion, and there were no "stuff packs;" the stuff came with the expansion. Now you pay $40 for an expansion that barely includes extra content. Want more outfits and hairs? Buy a stuff pack for $20. Or, go to their online store and pay a ridiculous amount. Seriously, $6 for a single object??? WTF.

It's a rip-off, plain and simple. But it makes EA money, so they don't give a shit. Likewise, I don't feel inclined to give EA my money.

The reputation which, as the link efkelley provided, is false? XD

Between Sims 1 and Sims 2, there's a lot more in the expansions of Sims 2. And I distinctly remember the EA logo in Sims 2. If there were no demand for expansions and "stuff packs", then there would be no expansions or "stuff packs" for The Sims.

Just like the obsessive demonization of BioWare, your criticism of EA simply boils down to "they're making stuff that I'm not interested in". And that's fine for you, but that doesn't mean that they're not allowed to do things you don't approve of. If people realized that reality, there'd be less whining about DA2 and ME3.
 

defcon6000

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The reputation which, as the link efkelley provided, is false? XD
I dunno, is it false?

Between Sims 1 and Sims 2, there's a lot more in the expansions of Sims 2.
Considering Sims 2 has more content overall than Sims 1, then yes, Sims 2 would have "more" in their expansions, thanks to a better engine and graphics. btw, Sims 1 and Sims 2 expansions cost the same, but Sims 3 expansions cost $10 more, yet have less content.

And I distinctly remember the EA logo in Sims 2.
The EA logo was on the Sims 1 as well, so what's your point? Maxis was still involved with the Sims 2.

Also, it's interesting to point out, since the Sims franchise has been ripped from Maxis, that they're barely putting anything out now.

If there were no demand for expansions and "stuff packs", then there would be no expansions or "stuff packs" for The Sims.
Not talking about demand, derp. Talking about content and pricing. Why can't the "stuff packs" be included in the expansions? What reason is there to keep them separate, other than to make more money?

Just like the obsessive demonization of BioWare, your criticism of EA simply boils down to "they're making stuff that I'm not interested in".
And where exactly did I say "I'm not interested in this stuff they're making," hmm? I believe my point was they're ripping people off.

If I didn't know any better, I'd say you're just shoving words where they don't belong.

And that's fine for you, but that doesn't mean that they're not allowed to do things you don't approve of. If people realized that reality, there'd be less whining about DA2 and ME3.
Don't think I ever said EA can't rip people off. They can, and do. What I'm saying (and pay attention here) is that I'm not inclined to give them my money, when they pull shit like that.

But it's fine if you don't actually read what some of us are saying, and would rather insert your own words that you approve of. However, do realize that no one is going to accept your version of reality, and that you're better off trolling somewhere else.
 

efkelley

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You've got no stake either. So why demonize someone just because they express a different view which criticizes yours?

I do have a stake. I think EA represents the bottom feeders of the gaming industry. I've seen friends put out of work, and I've seen beloved franchises destroyed. They care nothing for their employees. They care nothing for the games. Their only goal is next quarter. I despise any company that puts the stockholders ahead of the rank-and-file, and EA does this, over and over, time and again.

I hate these guys. I would love to see them tank. This attitude, which was originally a murky aggravation, has finally crystallized in the last decade, and BioWare, a company which produced solid titles prior to the EA buyout, was the final straw.

You liked DA2 and ME3. Cool. I liked the systems in DA2 and the majority of ME3. We agree at least that far. I thought the writing in DA2 was sub-par (note that I'm a professional writer, and am fully capable of providing a point-by-point critique of their shoddy work), and the ME3 ending, while trying SO VERY HARD to win a Hugo, failed utterly for bone-basic and simplistic technical writing errors.

This is why we learn the rules as writers. If you're going to break them, you need to know them so that you at least have a shot of breaking them in an inspirational way. You may still fall on your face, but at least you knew what you were doing, and that usually comes across. The writing in both those games showed me that they didn't know what they were doing, especially the ME3 ending. This is not BioWare's normal operating procedure. This is not their history.

What changed? EA. What's EA's history? Oh right. And now, like all those companies in the link I provided, the core team is departing. Hell, most of the BioWare writers (company vets for 10+ years) have already departed. BioWare will live on as a shell of itself, but I hold out no hopes for anything truly great from them ever again.
 

Shadow Dragon

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The reputation which, as the link efkelley provided, is false? XD

Between Sims 1 and Sims 2, there's a lot more in the expansions of Sims 2. And I distinctly remember the EA logo in Sims 2. If there were no demand for expansions and "stuff packs", then there would be no expansions or "stuff packs" for The Sims.

Just like the obsessive demonization of BioWare, your criticism of EA simply boils down to "they're making stuff that I'm not interested in". And that's fine for you, but that doesn't mean that they're not allowed to do things you don't approve of. If people realized that reality, there'd be less whining about DA2 and ME3.
Then how come almost every company that EA bought has gone under? Remember Westwood and Id? And why do the heads of those companies end up leaving after EA buys them? And yes, EA is the one that rushed out DA2. Probably wouldn't have been great either way, but they did mess it up and yes, they're bloodsuckers that'll nickle and dime people to death with dlcs. Also, they turned Deadspace, a popular survival horror into yet another generic action game for the sake of mass appeal. And they decided that every one of their IPs needs to be multiplayer, taking time of the development out of the storyline and engine making.

Not to mention how horribly they treat their employees.
 

FloridianWriter

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I do have a stake. I think EA represents the bottom feeders of the gaming industry. I've seen friends put out of work, and I've seen beloved franchises destroyed. They care nothing for their employees. They care nothing for the games. Their only goal is next quarter. I despise any company that puts the stockholders ahead of the rank-and-file, and EA does this, over and over, time and again.

I hate these guys. I would love to see them tank. This attitude, which was originally a murky aggravation, has finally crystallized in the last decade, and BioWare, a company which produced solid titles prior to the EA buyout, was the final straw.

You liked DA2 and ME3. Cool. I liked the systems in DA2 and the majority of ME3. We agree at least that far. I thought the writing in DA2 was sub-par (note that I'm a professional writer, and am fully capable of providing a point-by-point critique of their shoddy work), and the ME3 ending, while trying SO VERY HARD to win a Hugo, failed utterly for bone-basic and simplistic technical writing errors.

This is why we learn the rules as writers. If you're going to break them, you need to know them so that you at least have a shot of breaking them in an inspirational way. You may still fall on your face, but at least you knew what you were doing, and that usually comes across. The writing in both those games showed me that they didn't know what they were doing, especially the ME3 ending. This is not BioWare's normal operating procedure. This is not their history.

What changed? EA. What's EA's history? Oh right. And now, like all those companies in the link I provided, the core team is departing. Hell, most of the BioWare writers (company vets for 10+ years) have already departed. BioWare will live on as a shell of itself, but I hold out no hopes for anything truly great from them ever again.

:Trophy: Everything you've said here I completely agree with. I knew the moment Bioware went with EA it was pretty much the end. And now that all the great writers/artists are leaving i really have not much hope for BW anymore. It'll just become another company that EA managed to drag down for a quick profit.
 

Teinz

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If they ever make me run around the same dungeon for twenty times again, I'm going throw away the disc and give anything with Bioware on it a wide berth. I was so annoyed with that.
 

LOG

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If they ever make me run around the same dungeon for twenty times again, I'm going throw away the disc and give anything with Bioware on it a wide berth. I was so annoyed with that.
The trick here is to follow the employees instead of the company name.
 

Shadow Dragon

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I don't believe that's entirely true. They made DA:O which feels very much like NWN--a game they made before the EA takeover.

They just need to find their roots again, and hopefully the backlash from ME3's ending will make them realize it. But at the same time, I'm not holding my breath.
Actually, DAO was mostly done when EA stepped in. Publishing it was pretty much the only thing left to do with the game after EA bought Bioware. DA2 and Mass Effect: 2 were the first games actually made by Bioware after getting bought.
 

Opty

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How does that work? EA purchased Bioware in October of 2007 (around the time of ME1's release). DA:O was released in November of 2009, just over two years later.

Granted, DAO was announced in 2004, so it's quite likely that the bulk of the development was done by 2007, but it's hard for me to believe that it was "mostly done" over two years before it was released. Seems like a lot of time to spend on a nearly completed game. Your claim implies that DA:O was finished in or near late 2007 and then just sat around for two years before being published.

Do you have any proof of that you can cite?
 
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N.P. Browning

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I am willing to give them one last shot. So I will be quietly optimistic, but won't let me hopes get the better of me.
 

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Ooop, managed to miss the big Bioware discussion (for the record I loved ME3 and consider Mass Effect to be the best SF trilogy ever ;) )

I enjoyed DA2 very much, but didn't love it as much as I loved Origins. I'm hoping with the next game they'll return the series to it's roots slightly and give us the things that made Origins so brilliant: an epic story, a big world to explore, and huge choice in who you play - I feel like it was this last point that scuppered DA2. Stuck as a highborn human, you're limiting the number of replays you can reasonably enjoy, whereas Origins always had you going back for more. Really, exploring Thedas from different points of view was what made me fall in love with the game.
 

kenebaker

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NOBODY EXPECTS....

*cough*

Sorry.

As to the OP, I'm looking forward to DA3. I didn't mind DA2 either, to be perfectly honest. I think the main flaw of DA2 is that is such a change to go from the expanses of DA:O to be confined into a single city. It was a disconnect with what the fans expected a DA-game to be.

I didn't mind the city and surrounds because it made the story more concentrated. What I did mind was repeating each level THREE times throughout the years as the story advanced. After the expanse of the first game (which I have replayed 500 times), I was very disappointed.

Uggg. And female Hawke's voiceover... No no no.
 

sennydreadful

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I didn't mind the city and surrounds because it made the story more concentrated. What I did mind was repeating each level THREE times throughout the years as the story advanced. After the expanse of the first game (which I have replayed 500 times), I was very disappointed.

Uggg. And female Hawke's voiceover... No no no.

Yeah, female Hawke's voice was... not good. Oddly snooty, and didn't fit with the sort of character I wanted to play at all. :s Big disappointment, given that bioware picked such an amazing voice actress for Fem!Shep in Mass Effect (Jennifer Hale I love you!)
 

lilyWhite

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From what I've played of DA:O and DAII so far, I'm feeling quite a few improvements in DAII, mostly in the gameplay. I also couldn't help but to notice that the majority of things I've seen people complain about in the beginning of DAII were just flat-out wrong, to the degree where I have to wonder if they really think anyone who's played the game would believe them. (Which you get a lot of with Mass Effect 3 as well...) Also, FemHawke is cute. =^_^=

So far, Dragon Age II feels like a "X steps forward, Y steps back, X > Y" game. And considering that Mass Effect went from "X steps forward, Y steps back, X > Y" to "X lightyears forward", my hope of a trend is what makes me interested in DAIII.
 

sennydreadful

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From what I've played of DA:O and DAII so far, I'm feeling quite a few improvements in DAII, mostly in the gameplay. I also couldn't help but to notice that the majority of things I've seen people complain about in the beginning of DAII were just flat-out wrong, to the degree where I have to wonder if they really think anyone who's played the game would believe them. (Which you get a lot of with Mass Effect 3 as well...) Also, FemHawke is cute. =^_^=

So far, Dragon Age II feels like a "X steps forward, Y steps back, X > Y" game. And considering that Mass Effect went from "X steps forward, Y steps back, X > Y" to "X lightyears forward", my hope of a trend is what makes me interested in DAIII.

I think actually in terms of the gameplay/action and character design, DA2 was a big leap forward.

(Love your avatar!)
 

Jcomp

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DA:II disappointed the hell out of me (after I got over trying to convince myself I liked it because I'd paid for it), so I'm pretty disinterested in DA: III, unfortunately. I'd like to be excited for this game, just can't bring myself to be.
 

kenebaker

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DA:II disappointed the hell out of me (after I got over trying to convince myself I liked it because I'd paid for it), so I'm pretty disinterested in DA: III, unfortunately. I'd like to be excited for this game, just can't bring myself to be.

The developers hinted that they are going to make it as expansive as Skyrim. Hopefully they will be taking more cues from that great game. As long as I don't have to play a scripted character, I'll be good.
 

Shadow Dragon

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I had a lot of problems with DA2. I know some like the quick paced combat, but I always prefered the older style, that DAO used. But still, even if you are trying to quicken the pace of the combat, you shouldn't go to zerg rush style battle with just waves of enemies spawning out of thing air (literally). And there was simply too much combat. You couldn't walk from Hawke's home to the market without committing genocide.

Then there's the storyline. Good storylines have some overarching plot and goal for the main character. The Nameless was trying to get his memories back throughout Planescape Torment. Crono was battling against Lavos in some form or another throughout Chrono Trigger. Cloud was fighting to stop Sephiroth throughout FF7. The Lone Wanderer was following in her dad's footsteps. The Grey Warden was doing it all to stop the Dark Spawn. For Hawke, it seems like there's just a bunch of random, non-related things happening in the city and she's the only competent person around. Not to mention the poor handling of some of the moments that were supposed to be emotionally powerful, like Hawke's sister for instance (one of the worst executed moments I've ever seen). And the time jumps where they had your character do things you certainly wouldn't have.

As for the expansive environment, that actually kind of worries me. The one weak point of the Elder Scroll games has been its characters. Very one dimensional, generic fantasy characters for the most part. Bioware has been known more for its storytelling than environment, so I'm kind of worried that they'd shift focus too much and sacrifice character depth for the sake of having some giant area to explore. If they are going to model themselves after some Bethesda product, I'd rather it be Fallout, since they did a better job of mixing an interesting setting and having interesting characters to actually populate that setting.
 
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lilyWhite

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Combat is really one of the things that I find to be most improved in DAII; one of the things that I came upon when I started playing Origins is just how clumsy and awkward the combat feels. I don't mind the waves of enemies in DAII simply because I actually like fighting enemies in that game.

While the plot of DAII does have a few hiccups, I do like the direction it takes, going away from the "epic hero saves the world" story. It's a nice change from the games I typically play (or heck, just about any BioWare game). Which is not to say that I dislike Origins's plot, though I do find myself guessing plot twists correctly occasionally.

I will give Origins one thing: Alistair, who is easily my favourite male love interest in any video game ever. :D
 

Opty

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From what I've played of DA:O and DAII so far, I'm feeling quite a few improvements in DAII, mostly in the gameplay. I also couldn't help but to notice that the majority of things I've seen people complain about in the beginning of DAII were just flat-out wrong, to the degree where I have to wonder if they really think anyone who's played the game would believe them. (Which you get a lot of with Mass Effect 3 as well...) Also, FemHawke is cute. =^_^=

So far, Dragon Age II feels like a "X steps forward, Y steps back, X > Y" game. And considering that Mass Effect went from "X steps forward, Y steps back, X > Y" to "X lightyears forward", my hope of a trend is what makes me interested in DAIII.

Gee, lily swooping into a Bioware thread to tell everyone how "flat-out wrong" they are for daring to have an opinion that differs from hers?

Thanks. I can set my watch now.

:rolleyes:

Anyway, I liked it but didn't love it. The improved combat was a definite plus, as were the graphics. I was annoyed by the recycled environments and always fighting giant spiders. Got old really quick. Reminded me of the recycled bases in Mass Effect 1, but given the enormous scope and rich content of that game, it was forgivable. Not so with DA2. Makes me think the game was rushed, though we'll never know for sure.

I also felt that the 2nd and 3rd acts should've been switched. I felt that the Arishok was a much more interesting, menacing villain. I wanted more to that story. Setting up a civil war between Templars and Mages just wasn't as interesting a story to me, but I'm hopeful they can make it epic in DA3.

And, even though there wasn't much DLC released b/c it was dropped to start work on DA3, the content they did release was high quality and I could certainly tell that they took the criticisms of the main game to heart. The enemies were varied, the environments were gorgeous, and the combat was more challenging. "Legacy" was pretty good and "Mark of the Assassin" was very fun. It's a shame that the expansion ("The Exalted March") that they were working on for it got cancelled.
 
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Shenanigans!

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Can't wait. I know it's not a popular opinion, but I loved DAII. Anyone being reading the comics and the last book Asunder?
 

Sophia

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I've just read The Stolen Throne, and The Calling and Asunder are on my to-buy list. I've been following the comics. I like the extra fleshing out these supplementary things give to the world. :)

If you'd like to discuss the contents of the books and comics, would you consider giving a spoiler warning first just in case members don't want to know? You can also put the post in white text, so people won't see it unless they highlight the text.
 
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