Names and Nicknames

lise8 · Jul 29, 2014

I have a character who, currently, has a first name, Natalia, and two nicknames: Nat, which is used by her friends and Talia by her mother.

In dialogue, this is not an issue. I think I also have dialogue tags nailed to using her full first name.

In the narrative, though, it can be trickier. I am trying to make the narrative voice distinctive between the two main POV characters.

If I am writing in inner voice, and the POV character is thinking about Natalie, I use Nat for the friend and Talia for the mum.

However, which do I use when the narrative describes what the POV character sees or feels about Natalia? Do I use her full name or the nickname that they would use?

Let me try a made up exemple...

'I want to go to the cinema, I don't care for skating,' Natalia said.
'Oh, come on Nat, it would be such fun.' James smiled his most convincing smile in hope to win her over. Nat could be so difficult sometimes.

For this last one, would it be 'Natalia could be so difficult sometimes' or 'Nat could be so difficult sometimes' as it is thought by the POV character, here her friend James?

I have a feeling some of you will ask 'why on earth does she have two nicknames?'. Good question. Originally, it was to show cultural differences as Natalia's mother isn't English but her friends are. I am now debating making my life easier and using only one, but the Natalia/ Talia question remains.

Looking forward to reading your views, as always.

Brightdreamer · Jul 29, 2014

Use whatever name the POV character would use when thinking about the person.

In my head, I don't think: "Ferdinand should reduce the amount of cologne he applies, as the odor is overwhelming my olfactory system." I think: "Geez, did Fred bathe in sewage runoff?" To me, he's Fred. His offspring would think: "I wished I had the guts to talk to Dad about his cologne; I know he hadn't been on a date in a while, but girls these days like to breathe occasionally." To them, he's Dad, not Ferdinand or Fred. If the POV jumps between, say, Ferdinand's date and Ferdinand's kid, I, as a reader, would be fine going from "Fred" to "Dad", provided I had enough grounding to understand that they were the same character as seen by different people.

Bufty · Jul 29, 2014

If the POV character refers to her as Nat in dialogue he should do the same in the narrative.

Just try not to jump around. Most folk usually have only one nickname.

Orianna2000 · Jul 29, 2014

Bufty said:
Just try not to jump around. Most folk usually have only one nickname.

Really? As a teenager, I had two different nicknames that my parents gave me, plus one that a friend gave me. As an adult, I had an additional nickname that another friend gave me.

To the OP, I would say that maybe you're having trouble keeping your POV consistent. You want to pick one POV character and keep the entire scene from their perspective, and theirs alone. No head-hopping! Don't switch POVs mid-scene. Keep it consistent and your question of which nickname to use will be answered. If it's the mother's POV, use her nickname. If it's the friend's POV, use his nickname. Just don't use both in the same scene, because that will mean you've head-hopped, which is very confusing for readers.

Wilde_at_heart · Jul 29, 2014

Are your POV characters in first or third?

If in first, then absolutely keep it the same as they would in dialogue.

In third, however, I'd probably find it a bit jarring to see anything other than the proper name in narrative, unless you're going into the pronoun-change-from-first deep third.

lise8 · Jul 29, 2014

Orianna2000 said:
No head-hopping! Don't switch POVs mid-scene. Keep it consistent and your question of which nickname to use will be answered. If it's the mother's POV, use her nickname. If it's the friend's POV, use his nickname. Just don't use both in the same scene, because that will mean you've head-hopped, which is very confusing for readers.

No head hopping is left, though there was plenty beforehand!

Bufty said:
If the POV character refers to her as Nat in dialogue he should do the same in the narrative.

That's what I thought, to strengthen the narrative voice.

Wilde_at_heart said:
In third, however, I'd probably find it a bit jarring to see anything other than the proper name in narrative, unless you're going into the pronoun-change-from-first deep third.

And that's what I am worried about. So far, the nickname is only used in speech and the full first name in the narrative parts, but as I was editing 'head-hopping' out, I got really into the character's place, and therefore started typing the nickname they each use within the narrative if it felt a little like inner voice/ or deep third.

Maybe it is one of these things that are up to people's individual likes and dislikes. But I do worry that readers will indeed find it jarring to have Nat and Talia within dialogue and Nat or Talia in the narrative depending on whose POV the scene is set in... or Natalia when the narrative not as deep, more descriptive...

Orianna2000 · Jul 29, 2014

In my second novel, my main character's name is Josiah, which is how she introduces herself to the guy she's going to end up marrying. He insists on calling her Josie, which is how she's referred to for most of the novel. The exception is when she returns home to her family--they are very formal and still call her Josiah, which helps underscore the difference between how she was raised and the new life she's created for herself with her lover/soon-to-be-husband. It's a contrast that works, I feel, because of the circumstances.

Of course, it's also first-person from Josie's POV, so it's not as jarring as it might otherwise be.

Justin K · Jul 29, 2014

After tackling my first two chapters of my wip with this dilemma, I figured that generally, the nickname should only be used in the context where a nickname would generally be used, regardless of whether it's dialogue or not. Also, the nickname should start with the same letter as the regular name so as to not be excessively confusing.

pandaponies · Jul 30, 2014

I think the "should start with same the first letter" comment is kind of silly - many perfectly logical nicknames don't start with the same letter as the full first name they come from, ex. Elizabeth --> Liz. No one's going to be confused by that.

Also, my friends have tons of different nicknames for me. My name is three syllables and some of them use just the first letter/syllable, some of them use the last two, some use just the middle one, etc. Nat/Talia doesn't seem abnormal to me at all.

All of that said, I agree with those who've said if he mentally refers to her as Nat, I'd use Nat for narrative address as well in his POV chapters.

Roxxsmom · Jul 30, 2014

lise8 said:
I
I have a feeling some of you will ask 'why on earth does she have two nicknames?'. Good question. Originally, it was to show cultural differences as Natalia's mother isn't English but her friends are. I am now debating making my life easier and using only one, but the Natalia/ Talia question remains.

Looking forward to reading your views, as always.

I had a friend who had three nicknames. Her friends from highschool called her one thing, her friends from college called her another, and her parents called her yet another. So it's certainly possible. As long as you make it clear initially that different people use different names for her, it shouldn't be confusing. I agree that in closer points of view, the narrative should reflect the perceptions of the pov character.

BethS · Jul 30, 2014

lise8 said:
'I want to go to the cinema, I don't care for skating,' Natalia said.
'Oh, come on Nat, it would be such fun.' James smiled his most convincing smile in hope to win her over. Nat could be so difficult sometimes.

I might have written that this way--

"I want to go to the cinema. I don't care for skating," Nat said.

"Oh, come on. It would be such fun." He smiled his most convincing smile. She could be so difficult sometimes.

If he thinks of her as Nat, then Nat is who she should be, in tags and in the narrative, when you're using his POV.

But-- you probably don't need to use names so frequently. If Nat and James are the only characters in the scene, then once you've identified them, you can just use "he" and "she."

And it probably would be easier if you just gave her one nickname. Maybe her mother could call her Natalia, and her friends one of the shorter versions.

BethS · Jul 30, 2014

lise8 said:
I got really into the character's place, and therefore started typing the nickname they each use within the narrative if it felt a little like inner voice/ or deep third.

And you were correct to do so.

Justin K · Jul 30, 2014

pandaponies said:
- many perfectly logical nicknames don't start with the same letter as the full first name they come from, ex. Elizabeth --> Liz. No one's going to be confused by that.

But we're talking about what works for writing. More specifically, what works for the gatekeepers in the industry, not whether the nickname is logical. If a story can get tossed in the garbage right off the bat for having two characters with very similar names, like Oliver and Olivia (a common mistake in submissions), then surely it can work the other way where two seemingly different names are the same person. Like if Jack's nickname is Arthur, or something. This was all I was pointing out, because even though we can be told that Jack is Arthur, our minds do a lot of extra work to get the story straight as we read.

Orianna2000 · Jul 31, 2014

Justin K said:
But we're talking about what works for writing. More specifically, what works for the gatekeepers in the industry, not whether the nickname is logical. If a story can get tossed in the garbage right off the bat for having two characters with very similar names, like Oliver and Olivia (a common mistake in submissions), then surely it can work the other way where two seemingly different names are the same person. Like if Jack's nickname is Arthur, or something. This was all I was pointing out, because even though we can be told that Jack is Arthur, our minds do a lot of extra work to get the story straight as we read.

Sure, if it's something unrelated like Jack and Arthur. But Liz is clearly a shortened version of Elizabeth. I would be very surprised if an agent vetoed a novel because of that.

Names and Nicknames

lise8

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Names and Nicknames

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

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