The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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James D. Macdonald

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victoriastrauss said:
In my opinon, the best tactic is simply not to mention your PA book at all, and approach as if you're seeking publication for the first time.

I agree with Victoria.

I know you love your book. I know you're proud of your book. But a query letter or cover letter for a different book isn't the time or place to bring it up.
 

Sher2

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victoriastrauss said:
In addition to the agents/editors who've never heard of PA, and the agents/editors who know how nefarious PA is and don't blame the writers, there are agents/editors who DO blame the writers, and get ticked off when anyone with a POD book describes themselves as "published". Why take the risk? In my opinon, the best tactic is simply not to mention your PA book at all, and approach as if you're seeking publication for the first time.
That's the approach I'm taking. If someone asks, I won't lie but it's not information I'm offering right out of the gate.
 

Ed Williams

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CJ, I agree that PA's actions lead their authors to do..

Canada James said:
No, it's the road a very few of their authors have tried in a desperate attempt to say "please buy my book. Sales *do* equal readers!"

Let's focus more on the company's actions that lead authors into feeling forced to do these kinds of things, rather than poking at their victim's pride with feelings of shame.

Canada James
...some unusual things in the pursuit of sales, but personal responsibility does figure into things as well. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and telling them to post up lingerie pics or fake their death for attention. Decisions like those ought to rest at the feet of those making them.
 

postshy

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Thanks Aconite......

Thanks for your advice Aconite and you have a point. However, I am Canadian and Canadian Publishers for the most part have either not heard of, or do not care about PA.
I have to be fair and say that I have never been unhappy with my book as printed by PA. Their business practices and non-support after the book is published is what I have a problem with, as do others. I have a BIG problem with Booksellers such as Chapters and other chains who will not touch a PA book, except on consignment. At least that has been my experience. My local library was very supportive, for instance, and they READ the book. My book has been read in schools, but I want it on BOOKSHELVES and easily available in Canada.

I would love to submit my book to an American Pubisher, but postage is a big problem now that International Coupons (postage stamps) are not accepted and submission by e-mail/disc is frowned upon. I do know of a couple of American publishers who would probably look favourably on my genre of book, but then exchange has to be figured in, so it makes it a litle more difficult when the book is both uknown and overpriced. That is not to say that the problems cannot be overcome and I might eventually have to go that route. For now I am seeking a Canadian Publisher for obvious reasons.

To stay on topic - remember PA authors, who are less than satisfied with the roadblocks they are facing from their Publisher, that PA will cut and paste anything to support their claims. Sometimes that information has already been disproved many times over and they keep trotting out the same time-worn excuses for everything just so they can claim to be answering your queries. Come over to AW and read the truth. I did!

Postshy
 

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What Uncle Jim said

about the PA Contract:

(With snips)
James D. Macdonald said:
Therefore -- you don't know what you have or what they'll do, or claim to be able to do.

All of my statements presupposed a reputable and therefore at least moderately legal, moral, and honorable publisher.

Mo
 

SeanDSchaffer

This is true, Ed; however...

Ed Williams said:
...some unusual things in the pursuit of sales, but personal responsibility does figure into things as well. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and telling them to post up lingerie pics or fake their death for attention. Decisions like those ought to rest at the feet of those making them.


...PA loves to tell its authors that these unusual and even bizarre ways of getting publicity are, in fact, the right way to get publicity. I mean, they sound ridiculous to you and me, but to many PA authors, what the Company says is equivalent to the Gospel Truth. This means that if the mighty PA says to hang upside down for three hours and then dance naked outside the Capitol Building -- Fellow PA authors, if you're reading, please don't do something like that! -- until you get arrested is a good way to get publicity, many PA authors are, I'm sorry to say, naive enough to believe it. After all, many believe the Mighty PA would never steer their authors wrong.

That's one of the major problems with PA. They love to tell their authors to do ludicrously stupid things to promote their books. And many believe as I did just a few weeks before my cover came out: "Well, they're the Publisher; I'm sure they know what's best for my book."

It's an attitude like that, IMO, that makes so many authors do such unusual things to advertise their own works.

:Shrug:
 

Patricia

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Originally Posted by postshy
I have been "published", I stand behind my book, but not behind my publisher.

======

If I read that, (without any sort of explaination), I might possibly think of you as a trouble maker. Query or submission cover letters are for the purpose of showing the current work in a positive light. Any negative should be completely eliminated.
 

MMo

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Foreign Postage--Only slightly OT

postshy said:
I would love to submit my book to an American Pubisher, but postage is a big problem now that International Coupons (postage stamps) are not accepted and submission by e-mail/disc is frowned upon. I do know of a couple of American publishers who would probably look favourably on my genre of book ... (SNIPPED)Postshy

Postshy -- I just learned in another area of AW that the United States Post Office will ship U.S. postage to Canada through on-line ordering at USPS.Gov.

A Canadian author brought this to my attention and said that he had purchased postage this way.

I'd be careful how much I bought right away, though. I understand U.S. Postage is going to go up in price again sometime -- probably -- next year, although I wouldn't be surprised to see it increase this year.

Mo
 

postshy

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Thanks for all your support and good advice..

Thanks again! I note that you are all unanimous in agreeing that I should not mention by whom I was published. I respect your opinons and shall certainly keep the advice in mind.

I should mention that I am fairly certain PA is playing games with my book, but I do not wish to reveal here why I believe that. The Library Supervisor (for a number of branches) who read the book could not have cared less who published the book - she had not heard of PA and judged the book on content, style (including grammar and spelling). My daughter's book was also judged in the same manner and accepted. They have also been put into school libraries. However, we had to sell the books from our personal orders. Before Chapters would even accept my book on consigment, they READ the book to make sure, I guess, that it would not be an embarrassment.

PA is spiteful and I am well aware of that. They do not now, and have not liked "my tone" for sometime, but figure that since I am in Canada - what can I do?

Again, thanks to all, for taking the time to advise me.
SEAN, Mem etc., do not let them think you value the book - continue to move on and trip them up at every turn- my plan! They WILL keep the book hostage out of spite.

Postshy
 

SeanDSchaffer

postshy said:
SEAN, Mem etc., do not let them think you value the book - continue to move on and trip them up at every turn- my plan! They WILL keep the book hostage out of spite.


Understood. Thanks for the heads-up.

:)
 

T42

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postshy said:
Again, thanks to all, for taking the time to advise me.
SEAN, Mem etc., do not let them think you value the book - continue to move on and trip them up at every turn- my plan! They WILL keep the book hostage out of spite.

Postshy
postshy, I agree and they know how I feel. They can set on my book for seven years if they want because that just gives me more time to make their lives miserable which I plan to do everyday of my life. I will continue to do what needs to be done on my part to expose them! I don't plan to be nice about it and I don't plan to play fair. If I had some respect for them it would be different but since I don't, all is fair in this game and I don't think they know just how nasty I can be. I'm a good person and I never hurt anyone intentionally but when I have been betrayed and lied too the nails and teeth come out. (okay, the teeth literally) :eek:
 

Canada James

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Strange People Sometimes Do Strange Things

Ed Williams said:
...some unusual things in the pursuit of sales, but personal responsibility does figure into things as well. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and telling them to post up lingerie pics or fake their death for attention. Decisions like those ought to rest at the feet of those making them.

No one put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign the contract, either.

Canada James
 

T42

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Canada James said:
No one put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign the contract, either.

Canada James
James, keep in mind that there are many ways to put a gun to someones head.
 

Sher2

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Canada James said:
No one put a gun to anyone's head and made them sign the contract, either.
No, but they led people to do so by duplicitous means, which is analogous to a loaded gun of a different caliber.
 

T42

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Dolan Please go back to the bookstore and tell the manager that whatever "frustration" they are having may be alleviated by simply ordering the book from Ingram said:
Dolan, if I'm not mistaken Ingram and pa are two in the same. (This is my feelings on it) When I wrote to Ingram and asked that my book be removed from the online store, the response to that letter came from pa. Same ol' snotty letter they always write!
 

victoriastrauss

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SeanDSchaffer said:
This means that if the mighty PA says to hang upside down for three hours and then dance naked outside the Capitol Building -- Fellow PA authors, if you're reading, please don't do something like that! -- until you get arrested is a good way to get publicity, many PA authors are, I'm sorry to say, naive enough to believe it.:Shrug:
I know this is off topic (bad moderator! Bad!) but this reminds me of the Naked Novelist. As far as I know, naked didn't sell her book.

- Victoria
 

victoriastrauss

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The PA Project--Phase 2

Reposting at ACE's request:

-----------------------------------------------------

Several months ago I started a project with PA authors who were currently on the Absolute Write boards. It involved doing nothing illegal, immoral or fattening. (Ask Victoria Strauss, my partner in running Writer Beware.)

I asked PA authors who are unhappy to write to me. I organized the project, and there are some signs that it has a beneficial effect in getting the news out about PublishAmerica.

I'm now going to start phase two of the The Project.

So...if you are a brand-new PA author who has just joined the AW this year, or if you are one of the "old faithful" who doesn't mind wading back in for Round Two, OR if you are a writers' advocate who doesn't like seeing his or her fellow writers scammed and jerked around, please write to me.

I will be collecting email addresses for about two weeks, then you will be hearing from me, approximately April 1st. I'll write you a detailed letter describing just what to do.

It's your choice then whether you want to be part of the The Project, Phase Two.

My email address is: [email protected]

Also, please cc Writer Beware, because aol can be wonky! [email protected]

I learned a lot from Phase One. I have a few new wrinkles for Phase Two.

If you want to be part of this, write to me. Feel free to copy and past this post in other writer forums.

Thank you for your attention.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, SFWA Committee on Writing Scams
Writer Beware
Author: Storms of Destiny/HarperEos
www.accrispin.com
 

writerjenn

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postshy said:
PA is spiteful and I am well aware of that. They do not now, and have not liked "my tone" for sometime, but figure that since I am in Canada - what can I do?

Postshy,
I am in Canada too, having some of the same problems. I sometimes wonder how much hold they really can have over me, being out of country and not a US citizen. I'd love to find out that they can't hold me to any one of their stipid contracts.
My biggest issue (despite all the OTHER issues) was pricing. It is imposible for a small romance novel(mine) to compete with others when I'm priced at $34 CAD. Who would pay that much for a 145 page novel? No one, that's who. But according to PA... :crazy:

Jenn
 

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postshy said:
Thanks again! I note that you are all unanimous in agreeing that I should not mention by whom I was published. I respect your opinons and shall certainly keep the advice in mind.

You're welcome. To be really clear, we're not so much saying, "Don't tell them you were printed by PA" as "Don't claim to be published already, and certainly don't say it was with a publisher you don't stand behind," for the reasons given.
 

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Dolan said:
My most productive and certainly my most favorite messages from PA regarding royalties.

Coming out of my lurkdom in this thread just to shake my head in disbelief. I can't believe the kind of "tactics" they use in their emails (they seem to think teenage tantrum games work with adults). They're like a robot repeating silly mantras without cognitive understanding or capability. Any intelligent human would not reply to Dolan's comments about the "tone" with the exact same phrase that was refuted. That's just friggin stupid.
PA...anybody home? Helloooooo? *knock-knock*...nope, only an echo.
Explains a lot.
 

Uncarved

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I'm thinking about writing to PA with reverse psych.
Telling them I love them ,the book, everything about it.... so much that I'd like to rewrite the entire book in a different format, change the cover and add a coauthor. See if they release me then;)
 

ResearchGuy

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PVish said:
...
If that idea doesn't work, how about submitting "11,000 Happy Authors." That would be easy. Just 10,800 blank pages....
It seems to me (speculating, here, and still from a relative newbie perspective), that of those 11,000 (a moving target, but let's take that number for discussion), some significant number are probably people who have (or had) exactly one book in them and are ok with what PA has done with it. Some or many may be old enough that they will not be producing another book, ever, and they and their families were happy to see some printed and bound copies (sales being irrelevant for them). Some number, perhaps well into the thousands, may or may not have another book, but are likewise ok with the deal (like a fellow I know slightly who seems content to buy at the PA author's discount and sell directly). Some, of course (hundreds? many hundreds?), are outraged, most likely because they had aspirations for the book, look to a future writing more books, and were blindsided by the problems with PA or surprised and dismayed to learn that the company is quite unselective in what it prints, so the "publishing" was not what they thought. And the remainder are perhaps in transition on the spectrum or too busy with family, work, or other activities to think much about their PA books. (Those in transition might well join the outraged in due time.)

For the one-off/good enough folks and for those others who find that the PA system is ok for their purposes (no aspirations of bookstore placement, etc.), well, it ain't broken. Even if objectively it appears that they got short shrift or could have done better, for them, that is not important. And for some folks (maybe many?), the PA deal might have been the best of all feasible worlds for their purposes and circumstances.

That leaves the outraged, those whose objections are dismissed as "taking that tone" and who are subjected to bullying and contempt. So (still musing here) the question seems to be how to see that those folks get their due (in most cases, unconditional release from contract) without damaging those who are satisfied with their arrangements with PA. It also leaves the problem of preventing the future exploitation of other folks unknowingly headed into the outraged camp while not interfering with those for whom the PA system is satisfactory. In short, putting PA out of business would involve doing good and just things for some folks, at the cost of ending a suitable option for possibly a much larger number of folks now and in the future.

It seems that the key is education (abundantly done here and on related sites) to steer away the folks who would be damaged by dealing with PA and to caution the others about what to be careful about (editing, mostly, or lack of same?) while allowing those for whom PA is that "best of all feasible choices" to make that choice.

Seems to me, then, that ideally, a solution would involve (1) unfettered release from the contract for those who have learned too late that it was a bait and switch or that PA is not holding up its end of the bargain AND (2) clear and effective "informed consent" requirements for any future PA author in advance of signing a contract--that is, full disclosure in plain English, along with a clear, deception-free contract. That might be the win-win, as there may well be plenty of folks for whom the PA deal is ok (as long as little problems like crummy editing are fixed), perhaps enough to allow the company to go forward dealing only with those who can legitimately be satisfied while not ensnaring those for whom it cannot be a satisfactory arrangement. All that would be left are those who feel they can game the system to their advantage and on whom the informed consent process is lost. They will be on their own.

So ... is it possible to bring about reform without destruction ...

--Ken
 

cwgranny

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I am fascinated by the development of a service position where it is considered perfectly acceptable to bully, belittle, and insult the customer (and with PA, the author is definitely the customer since that's where the bulk of their money originates.)

I have to admit, there have been instances where I wish service people in other places were able to adopt a little PA tone... when someone cuts into the "ten items or less" line with a buggy full of groceries, the cashier would be encouraged to yell, "What's wrong with you? Are you stupid or something? Can't you read? Shopping at our store is a privledge and we expect you to show some respect!" Or when you're in a restaurant and the kid at the next table is throwing food that ends up on your clothes, the server would come over and yell, "If you can't control your kid, you need to leave."

Sorry about the cranky fantasy...
Unfortunately in PA land, the customer is always wrong. They ought to put that on their site as the new motto.

gran
 

lindylou45

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spacejock2 said:
I've included a link to the Atlanta Nights sting and also the sensible advice about money always flowing to the author, but I'm willing to add more info or links.

Could you add a link to PASucks on your site? I'd appreciate it.
 

Sher2

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cwgranny said:
I am fascinated by the development of a service position where it is considered perfectly acceptable to bully, belittle, and insult the customer (and with PA, the author is definitely the customer since that's where the bulk of their money originates.)

Sorry about the cranky fantasy...
Unfortunately in PA land, the customer is always wrong. They ought to put that on their site as the new motto.
Do you suppose PA is actually running training seminars for this? I mean, how do you get them, the customer service employees, to provide this type of "service?" I see young, college educated women working customer service everywhere I go, from Target to the cell phone company. I have yet to see the signature PA customer service attitude anywhere else. It's baffling.

Sunday's 'On the Road to Poz' is up at www.publishamericasucks.com, 'The Tour' page.
 
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