"Affluenza" is now a legitimate defense claim.

Lyv

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I have a legal question. I'm sure there will be civil suits. Does the defense--that the parents created the monster--and the sentence--that keeping him from the parents for the beginning of his supposed treatment--mean that the parents can be sued themselves?
 

blacbird

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He's a minor, and legal dependent of his parents. You bet your house they can be sued, and for a lot. Wrongful death lawsuits are common. It's civil litigation, and so does not bump up against criminal double-jeopardy sanction. O.J. Simpson was successfully sued by the Goldmans despite his acquittal in the murder trial, as just one case in point. The criminal defense nonsense should have no direct legal bearing on any civil litigation.

caw
 

POPASMOKE

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He's a minor, and legal dependent of his parents. You bet your house they can be sued, and for a lot. Wrongful death lawsuits are common. It's civil litigation, and so does not bump up against criminal double-jeopardy sanction. O.J. Simpson was successfully sued by the Goldmans despite his acquittal in the murder trial, as just one case in point. The criminal defense nonsense should have no direct legal bearing on any civil litigation.

caw

This.

What will be ironic, is these wealthy parents hired an "expert" mental health practitioner to testify in defense of their son's actions by essentially saying his actions were the result of shitty parenting. This expert's testimony may very well come back to bite them in the ass during a wrongful death suit.

One can only hope.
 

WriterTrek

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Eh, in my opinion accepting a Driver's License should come with culpability for your actions while driving. If he's got a Driver's License that should be the equivalent of saying "I agree to be responsible with this."

To me, it would be a different story if the kid had been 15 and without a driver's license -- in that case he hasn't accepted responsibility for the vehicle and no one has trusted him with it, a juvenile delinquent whose parents haven't stepped up to curb his behavior.

It'd still be horrible and awful, and wouldn't help the families of the deceased, but the sentence would have made more sense to me personally.

Either you are responsible to have a Driver's License and should be forced to take responsibility, or you aren't.
 

blacbird

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The significant good news to come out of this is the public reaction to it, which is a political-spectrum-wide outrage at the judge's decision. If this judge has an elective position, which many judges do, I suspect he's dug his own political grave with this one. Unlike O.J., this wasn't an issue of a jury decision; the jury found the kid guilty. This crap happened in the "penalty" phase, much like that Montana sexual abuse case of a couple of months ago. People need to pay attention to the folks they put in judicial offices via the ballot.

caw
 

nighttimer

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If this kid was poor and black he'd have been wearing an orange jumpsuit for the next twenty years after the first time the cops picked him up.

white-privilege-card.jpg


Membership has its privileges. Don't go to court without it. :yessmiley
 

missesdash

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Time for devil's advocate, obviously. Here's another (though less sensational) take from NPR:

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram, though, includes these points:

"Boyd ordered the 16-year-old to receive therapy at a long-term, in-patient facility. He will stay in Tarrant County juvenile detention until the juvenile probation department prepares a report about possible treatment programs.

"If the teen violates the terms of his probation, he could be sent to prison for 10 years. ...
"In delivering the sentence, Boyd told the victims' families in the packed courtroom that there was nothing she could do that would lessen their pain. And she told the teen that he, not his parents, is responsible for his actions.

"Boyd said that she is familiar with programs available in the Texas juvenile justice system and is aware that he might not get the kind of intensive therapy in a state-run program that he could receive at the California facility suggested by his attorneys. Boyd said she had sentenced other teens to state programs but they never actually got into those programs."

The Star-Telegram adds that "Scott Brown, an attorney who represented the teen with Reagan Wynn, said the teen could have been freed in two years if Boyd had sentenced him to 20 years. 'She fashioned a sentence that could have him under the thumb of the justice system for the next 10 years,' Brown said."

The boy's parents will pay the $450,000-a-year cost for his treatment, which could last several years.

Some meta-quoting there. Raises some interesting points. From a utilitarian standpoint, wouldn't it be better for him to be stuck in a program and be watched for ten years than for him to be in and out of jail in two years?

It's hard to say. But it does make it a bit more balanced. Especially the judge telling him that he, not his parents, was responsible.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...r-teen-who-killed-4-heres-the-judges-thinking
 

WriterTrek

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@missesdash

Good post, link, and information. Thanks -- and that does make sense from the Judge's POV. Pity it's not being emphasized.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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James D. Macdonald

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someone would have shot him.

Good point, seeing as the Dallas cops (story from 10 December 2013) shot an unarmed black kid with his hands in the air just recently.

"His hands were up like this," said Scottie Smith, adding that he watched in disbelief as the officer shot the teenager in the passenger seat.


"There is no reason to justify that young man getting shot, especially surrendering like he was," Smith said.


Smith said he saw police chase a maroon car into the St. Augustine Townhomes in Southeast Dallas. Smith, a Notre Dame graduate, is the complex manager.
 

Vince524

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So he got a nothing sentence for being so rich and prevlidged that he didn't know any better?

Wouldn't a sure fire cure be to throw the book at him and make him pay for what he's done?

Hey I just cured Affluenza.

Can a get a few million?
 

zerosystem

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So he got a nothing sentence for being so rich and prevlidged that he didn't know any better?

Wouldn't a sure fire cure be to throw the book at him and make him pay for what he's done?

Hey I just cured Affluenza.

Can a get a few million?

That's one thing I do not understand. If this kid doesn't comprehend consequences for his actions, why let him go to a resort, I mean rehab center, instead of prison. Is he not just going to think that he got away with it again? Especially since, according to HLN's Dr. Drew, affluenza is nothing but junk science.
 

benbradley

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Oh sure, and leave ME all the work!

Well, affluenza is being labeled as a sickness. Are you condemning the label or condoning it? I can't tell!
It's "a disease" regardless. They'll be calling it NOT affluenza, but "The Disease of Affluenza" in no time, much like the headline about this this TV star:

Mike "The Situation" Sorrentino: "The disease of addiction doesn’t discriminate"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-the-situation-sorrentino-on-painkiller-addiction/


Well, I think that rehabilitation is better than punitive measures.
Haven't I tried to tell people here what rehabilitation is? What if the courts sent people to Scientology's Narconon program? At least people would have a clue to expect treatment to be something weird.

And just because your mother is Leona Hemsly saying "we don't pay taxes/we don't go to jail" is no excuse either.

But back to my point:
I grew up in a town where asinine, stupid and dangerous behavior was the expected norm from rich brats. Spoiled rich kids did all sorts of awful things, and it was brushed off.

At least in this case, they're forcing him into treatment
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives were unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn or wills and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
That's what treatment is. He's going to hear that and the other nine steps every day for the next two years, and likely more than once per day.
 

benbradley

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"If the teen violates the terms of his probation, he could be sent to prison for 10 years. ...
That's standard "Drug Court" boilerplate to hang over defendants sent to rehab. If they do what they're told in rehab (which is kinda like boot camp, but with more guilt trips. Those who work in rehab will gladly say "You don't want me to give a bad report to the Judge, now do you?"), AND pass all random drug tests, AND is never seen with an alcoholic beverage in his hand, then the state won't come down and bring the original "usual" punishment of hard time into effect.
 

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Sound like pretty much the whole generation--no thought to consequences.
I hope you were standing on your lawn, shaking your fist at the kids across the street when you typed that.
 

benbradley

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I hope you were standing on your lawn, shaking your fist at the kids across the street when you typed that.
I was wondering WHICH whole generation - probably Chompers' generation as well.

"I remember when I was a young whipper-snapper like you, I thought I knew everything, but WE GREW OUT OF IT! It's clear you won't!"

"Oh, the kids these days..."

I remember how the hippies were in the news when I was in my first decade of life, and I was wishing I were old enough to be a hippie. Now (just five short decades later) there's the Occupy movement which looks almost identical, but no, I don't want to be one of them... "GET OFF MY LAWN!"
 

missesdash

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There are some pretty good arguments for millennials as being ill-equipped to handle....anything really. Helicopter parenting was a thing just like attachment parenting is a thing now.

Read a piece a bit ago about people bringing their parents to job interviews.

I'm a millennial, btw, so I'm more talking about my peers and myself than yelling for someone to get off my lawn.

edit: not sure if thats what the other poster meant about consequences, but I'm kinda of thinking of the whole 'mom and dad will get me out of this' mentality.
 
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Hanson

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all a bit confusing.

the concept is that due to bad parenting 'affluenza', this kid was not responsible.

ok.


so if a poor kid does the same, and it turns out that he experienced bad parenting, shouldn't that kid be treated likewise?

the impression I get is no.

rich family bad parenting is not as bad as poor family bad parenting.

rich bad parenting can be 'cured'
poor bad parenting cant.



Now, if the judge says, it's not the parents, it's the kid - he's responsible, then the judgement should reflect this. But it doesn't.

This judge should be judged. I hope an appeal is possible meanwhile. Not to punish the kid, but to clarify EXACTLY the thinking behind the original decision.
 
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_Sian_

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I'm pretty sure every generation has their issues. I was on placement yesterday, and I saw a whole range of ages pass through the back of the ambulance, and I can assure you, none of them handled it well.

Differently, yes. Some did better in areas than others. But everyone has their issues, whether created by generational change or not.
 

chompers

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I think there's a huge difference between an ambulance and a job interview. Bringing mommy and daddy along? Seriously?
 
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Kylabelle

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all a bit confusing.

the concept is that due to bad parenting 'affluenza', this kid was not responsible.

ok.


so if a poor kid does the same, and it turns out that he experienced bad parenting, shouldn't that kid be treated likewise?

the impression I get is no.

Well said. And I read a while ago that the prosecuting attorney in the case is involved in some kind of appeal of the decision. Lots of reaction to this one, as, IMO, there should be. And mainly for the reason Hanson stated.

Poor bad parenting, what would we call that? Affluenza-challenged?

criminy.

ETA: Prosecutors are asking that he be incarcerated by juvenile court: http://abcnews.go.com/US/affluenza-dui-case-prosecutors-put-teen-bars/story?id=21259169

The Tarrant County District Attorney's office has asked a juvenile judge to incarcerate Ethan Couch, 16, on two counts of intoxication assault for which there has been no verdict.

And, victims' families filing suit: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...lies-in-Texas-affluenza-case-file-5075744.php
 
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robjvargas

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I've seen several stories report that the judge isn't answering calls.

The judge knows how stupid this ruling was.
 

Chase

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Since my federal "benefit" goes up a whopping 1.5% next month, I plan to use the affluenza defense at my next AW ban hearing.

Rich Chase
 

Belle_91

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You make your own decisions at 16, sorry. I'm assuming he had a cellphone, so he could have called a cab. He could have called a sober friend to drive him home. He made the choice to go out and drink and then drive home drunk. Even if he had horrible parents, they didn't force him to do this. I have a strong suspicion that the judge was paid off. I don't think you really have to be a detective to figure that out though.