Structured recess

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,615
Reaction score
4,029
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
Obesity isn't going to be fixed by recess or gym until something is done to fix the kids going home to $0.99 meals because it's all their families can afford. Those cheap meals make the kids feel full, but they're loaded with every "don't eat" ingredient you can list. And since they're underfed, their bodies are in constant "starvation" mode, which slows their metabolism and stores fat - making them obese.

We keep getting stories about the dangers of helicopter parenting on kids, but what about helicopter administration in school districts? Sometimes they remind me of the scene out of that movie about Babe Ruth where he would stand against the wall chanting "The devil finds work for idle hands." because his childhood caregivers were afraid that if he had time to himself he'd become a trouble-maker. That seems to be the prevailing "wisdom" guiding district policies.

Forced interaction does NOTHING to impart social skills or teach kids to make friends. But dodgeball does instill the groundwork for pack mentality and lessons on how to team up to take down the weakest of least liked members of one's group. :D
 

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
9,767
Reaction score
3,936
Location
you martyr and shine.
Obesity isn't going to be fixed by recess or gym until something is done to fix the kids going home to $0.99 meals because it's all their families can afford. Those cheap meals make the kids feel full, but they're loaded with every "don't eat" ingredient you can list. And since they're underfed, their bodies are in constant "starvation" mode, which slows their metabolism and stores fat - making them obese.
This.

But dodgeball does instill the groundwork for pack mentality and lessons on how to team up to take down the weakest of least liked members of one's group. :D
And also how to endure a concussion. :(
 

rugcat

Lost in the Fog
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
16,339
Reaction score
4,110
Location
East O' The Sun & West O' The Moon
Website
www.jlevitt.com
PE classes are among the first to be cut when there's a budget crunch along with arts and music.

It's a really bad idea, but when the school board says they have to cut something, what are you going to vote for -- PE, math, or history?

I agree that kids need a break – a time when they can do anything they want or nothing at all. But if there's no money for a PE class, I can see trying to ensure they get at least a little exercise at recess.

As far as the obesity issue goes, it's complicated. It certainly isn't going to be solved by kickball at recess or even the PE classes. And it has more to do with parents and culture and where you live than it does simple exercise.

But still, when I went to school many years ago, school ram from 830 – 4:30 PM. That included a hour and a half each day for activity. If you were on the football team or the soccer team or the tennis team or the swimming team, that was your physical activity.

If not, you participated in group activities – everyone had to run a mile and a half at their own pace in the beginning of the class. Then, there was a pick up soccer game, or softball, or various other things which everyone participated in.

Lunches were pretty healthy, and there were no snack machines or soda machines allowed in the school – none.

Again, it's hard to make any comparisons since it was a small private school with a demographic of kids from reasonably well to do families who could afford to send them to a private school, although there were also plenty of students from lower income families who received financial aid from the school.

In any case, I can't remember a single obese kid in the entire upper school – about 270 students. There were a few kids who were overweight, but not morbidly so, and we're perfectly capable of participating in activities. And as far as I remember were not subject to any kind of bullying or taunting.

The schools basic philosophy was that it was equally important to be physically fit as it was to be mentally sharp. Mens sana in corpore sano. And it was part of the school's mission to ensure that kids develop physically as well as intellectually. And that's something I agree with 100%.
 

waylander

Who's going for a beer?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
8,276
Reaction score
1,566
Age
65
Location
London, UK
You're trying to prevent obesity, so don't offer other options. As they say, hunger is the best spice.

They'll just go hungry; I would have at that age.
So you are going to offer a service to the paying customer that is unacceptable to them. I foresee refusal to pay for meals that the kids won't eat and a lot of food going to waste..
 
Last edited:

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
It's a really bad idea, but when the school board says they have to cut something, what are you going to vote for -- PE, math, or history?
Administrative salaries, administrative staff, fancy building budgets, travel allowances... I'm sure there are other options that are never, ever brought to the table.
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,615
Reaction score
4,029
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
I foresee refusal to pay for meals that the kids won't eat and a lot of food going to waste..

Which is exactly what's happening with the new food requirements in some districts. They're losing money because the kids won't buy what they're serving, and the ones on free lunch won't eat it, either.
 

rugcat

Lost in the Fog
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
16,339
Reaction score
4,110
Location
East O' The Sun & West O' The Moon
Website
www.jlevitt.com
Which is exactly what's happening with the new food requirements in some districts. They're losing money because the kids won't buy what they're serving, and the ones on free lunch won't eat it, either.
Perfect solution:

Huge plates of french fries, Hostess cupcakes and ice cream. Kids will love it, buy lots of stuff, school will make money.
 

robjvargas

Rob J. Vargas
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
6,543
Reaction score
511
Perfect solution:

Huge plates of french fries, Hostess cupcakes and ice cream. Kids will love it, buy lots of stuff, school will make money.

There are other choices than A or B. How 'bout (for example), four days of A gets you B on Friday?
 

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
3,711
Reaction score
1,139
Age
56
Location
In the wilds of Texas. Actually, the liberal oasi
Cold showers and canings. Put some spine into these whiny brats who spend their four-hour school days blubbing about the lack of gourmet food and insufficient padding on their ergonomic chairs. Cold showers and canings, I say. Made me the man I am today.
 

waylander

Who's going for a beer?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
8,276
Reaction score
1,566
Age
65
Location
London, UK
Cold showers and canings. Put some spine into these whiny brats who spend their four-hour school days blubbing about the lack of gourmet food and insufficient padding on their ergonomic chairs. Cold showers and canings, I say. Made me the man I am today.

I didn't know you are an old Etonian
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,615
Reaction score
4,029
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
Perfect solution:

Huge plates of french fries, Hostess cupcakes and ice cream. Kids will love it, buy lots of stuff, school will make money.

There are other choices than A or B. How 'bout (for example), four days of A gets you B on Friday?

Or C: Incremental institution. Kids won't suddenly crave healthy food if they're used to less healthy stuff. You either start with replacing the drink and snack machines, then gradually changing the lunch choices. Or, you start the new menu with the kids in kindergarten and increase the spread by a year each year until the new menu is all that remains.

You also allow for kids who actually need more food than a broadband caloric guideline allows. For every kid who won't touch the new stuff, there are still those who would happily eat their own portion and the one being tossed into the bin.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
I never knew recess was your own time, because my schools that had it had it just like this. Usually effing kickball. I despise kickball, the most mind-numbingly boring game (to me) in human history. Or whiffle ball! Ugh.

A few of the girls did get a reprieve when a parent had a little side playground put in that included parallel bars, a balance beam, a basic set of rings, and monkey bars. It was like heaven! One of the teachers would supervise anyone who wanted to play there instead of kickball. It ended up being 4-5 girls who took gymnastics all week outside of school (like me) who always went. The girl whose parents bought it always went ;) That's the only time I ever enjoyed any required physical activity in grade school, except for a few days of hockey.

The boys still made fun of us for doing gymnastics, but it was much easier to deal with when getting to do what you enjoy! This was way back in the earliest 80's, so most boys were little sexist sh!theads often about topics like gym or recess. That was probably 80% of why I hated it -- the boys being jerks about whatever sport was chosen.
 

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
Cold showers and canings. Put some spine into these whiny brats who spend their four-hour school days blubbing about the lack of gourmet food and insufficient padding on their ergonomic chairs. Cold showers and canings, I say. Made me the man I am today.

An American? I gather you left the Mother Country for the Land of Hot Showers and Soft Chairs ASAP, or at least As Soon As You Considered Having Children? :D
 
Last edited:

frimble3

Heckuva good sport
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
6,396
Location
west coast, canada
For those adults who can't tell the difference between a 'break' and a 'mandatory activity': for the next month, instead of 'coffee breaks' you spend the equivalent time doing a week of calisthenics, a week of yoga, a week of running up and down stairs and a week of pacing up and down a hallway. No choice, no other options are available. If you want to get closer to the school experience, give the list to a supervisor, and ask them to chose the activity for you.

In the case of the schools, I am trusting to the ingenuity of children. If they nip into the washrooms at the start of recess, and stay there, making grunting noises and cries of distress, they'll keep the teachers busy, at least.

My class used to play tag at recess. Occasionally a ball-bouncing game, or one of the other traditional playground games, but usually some kind of tag. We organized it ourselves, we played without adult input. The teacher's job was to keep the mayhem to a minimum. Other kids played other games. I was a reader, but I didn't read at recess, that was for Games. And it was Our Time, not the teachers'.
 

Prozyan

Are you one, Herbert?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
2,325
Reaction score
657
Location
Nuevo Mexico
I think the US education system, in whole, worked a lot better before we started trying to fix it.
 

Wilde_at_heart

υπείκωphobe
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
3,243
Reaction score
514
Location
Southern Ontario
I find it's bad enough when my friends overschedule their children and then wonder why they can't focus or settle down or handle five minutes without their iPad or a DVD.

Cold showers and canings. Put some spine into these whiny brats who spend their four-hour school days blubbing about the lack of gourmet food and insufficient padding on their ergonomic chairs. Cold showers and canings, I say. Made me the man I am today.

And are you a writer now because the Headmaster twisted your ear as he dragged you to the blackboard to correct your grammar? :D
 

robjvargas

Rob J. Vargas
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
6,543
Reaction score
511
In grade school (one of them, since I was an Air Force brat and didn't have the same one for more than a year), teachers sort of "sponsored" an activity at recess, but children were free to not join in if they wanted to be on swings, or monkey bars (which I still argue are the best invention of all time). THESE monkey bars.

I'm good with teachers encouraging activity by actively providing something. But removing the option? No way.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
Now those are some monkey bars!!! Wow :D

Frimble3, you forgot to add a huge group of people mocking and taunting you about the activity! That was always a requisite in any activity chosen by our teachers (until the gymnastics option). Oh, to be mocked and aggravated for a minimum of an hour a day, every day. Good times ;)
 

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
16,441
Reaction score
1,529
Location
between rising apes and falling angels
Website
www.cranehanabooks.com
See, now you can't have those monkey bars on school playgrounds because of liability issues.

I hated PE as a kid. It was taught by a collection of sadists and ruled by the school's most popular bullies. I was lean and active from outside interests like hiking and skiing, but those classes actually taught me to be as little a team player as possible. I even sabotaged or played down my physical skills, so I would be ignored. Remember the 'Daria' cartoon? That was me two decades earlier. My recesses were treasured breaks. I can't imagine how stir-crazy I would have been, if told I *had* to play some team sport with my classmates. Ugh.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
Yes! I didn't even try at the chosen team sports back then because of all the same-team trash talk by the obnoxious kids. I hated the choice of game, got demoralized about sucking (because of being female) before even getting started, so screw it.

When that also becomes recess instead of just PE class, it's especially aggravating. If folks want physical activity, that's fine with me, but try to let the kids do what they enjoy instead of despise.
 

robjvargas

Rob J. Vargas
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
6,543
Reaction score
511
See, now you can't have those monkey bars on school playgrounds because of liability issues.

I tried to get the Supreme Court to overrule that. I think I made the Chief Justice laugh.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,776
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Actually, following the links, it's worse that I thought.

I assumed at least there was a choice of activities laid out for the kids.

Nope. For two weeks, they play kickball at recess. Then, the administration chooses another "approved activity" for the next two weeks.

It really is just another class.

Here is a sad fact:


http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/obesity/facts.htm

Obesity in children is a serious problem. It tends to become obesity in adults and shortens life, increases health problems, adds to social problems, and has many other deleterious effects.

Children have the option of looking at clouds or reading books at home, after school hours and on weekends.

Structured activities, those which provide cardiovascular exercise and helpful physical activity are not only a good idea, they should be as mandatory as math or English class.

They did once upon a time. It was called PE class. We had it in addition to recess.

So recess has become PE.

I thought I was just paranoid when I thought that there was some kind of plot going on to kill creativity and spontaneous problem solving in kids so they can grow up to be mindless drones. I guess not.

God forbid that anyone have any open-ended, non-productive time.
 
Last edited:

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
5,058
Reaction score
460
Location
United States
Physical activity is a real need, but I think they should work on improving PE, not co-opting recess. Recess is supposed to be a break.

Also, though it sounds like wanting kids to get physical activity is a big part of the motivation, that doesn't seem to be all of it. Specifically, the parts about wanting to "help kids understand better how to go along with others and make sure everybody was involved in the activities" and "teach kids the appropriate ways to handle free time" feel controlling to me. If there's a problem with kids being bullied during recess, then by all means the school should address that. But having every moment structured isn't going to help kids learn how to entertain themselves or socialize independently. Kids need opportunities to both entertain themselves and learn how to navigate social situations without adult interference. And some kids may be content not to get involved in activities during recess.