While we're talking police militarization, let's see exactly who's been militarized (database)

The NYT did it better, with this interactive map I posted in the previous militarization thread.

On the lighter side, Reason has a great article on some of the other things that have been transferred to local agencies through the 1033 program... prefaced with this little bit:

According to the Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO), the facilitators of the 1033 program, each item given to local law enforcement agencies "must have a justification and be approved by both the State Coordinator and be approved by LESO Staff." Preference is given to those agencies that request property to be used for "counter-drug and counter-terrorism" operations. And, according to Pentagon press secretary Navy Rear Adm. John Kirby, "there's a lot of due diligence" involved in decisions made about the type of equipment police forces receive through the 1033 program.

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Among the items: Musical instruments, a bouncy castle, ice cream makers and icey machines, meat slicers (the county where I was born got two!!), Xbox games, popcorn and hotdog machines, and pizza ovens.

Your tax dollars at work, folks. Apparently the cops needed hot pizza and an Xbox more than you needed to put groceries on your table.



I'd like to express my appreciation to the Law Enforcement Support Office of the Department of Defense Offense for encouraging widespread ridicule and disgust at a massive waste of taxpayer dollars, and a consequent lowering of respect for central authority. Great job, folks!!! Keep up the good work!!

Oh, yeah... and the citizens of Trumbull county, Ohio, would like to thank you for the piccolo.

ETA: Here's an idea. Maybe send a pizza oven and an ice cream maker to Ferguson, so the cops and protesters can have a nice friendly party and settle their differences.

ETA2: Apparently the NYT interactive map is woefully incomplete. It does not include the bouncy castle, Xbox games, musical instruments, and other weapons of mass distraction listed in the Reason article. Apparently they didn't consider including a "stupid shit" filter, failing to see the worth of bringing these items to the attention of the public. Of course, the gray lady has always had a rather serious demeanor.

My city's police apparently acquired one of those mine-resistant armored personnel carriers without telling the city council they requested one, and the city council is not very pleased about it. We have a very low violent crime rate here, so it's really mystifying why they thought they needed one, and what they think they're going to do with it (unless they plan to deploy it against the drunken partiers that show up every year on Picnic Day).

Don said:

Among the items: Musical instruments, a bouncy castle, ice cream makers and icey machines, meat slicers (the county where I was born got two!!), Xbox games, popcorn and hotdog machines, and pizza ovens.

Your tax dollars at work, folks. Apparently the cops needed hot pizza and an Xbox more than you needed to put groceries on your table.

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Honestly, I'd rather see the police get the bouncy castle, ice cream maker and icey machine, meat slicer, Xbox games, popcorn and hotdog machines and pizza ovens than get military grade vehicles and armament. Perhaps if they threw a party for their neighborhoods instead of coming all Rambo at citizens their reputations would improve.

The '97 North Hollywood shoot-out was a major influence in police departments seeking better armaments and protective gear.

.38 caliber pistols are not effective against H-K assault rifles and Desert Eagles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is

jimmymc said:

The '97 North Hollywood shoot-out was a major influence in police departments seeking better armaments and protective gear.

.38 caliber pistols are not effective against H-K assault rifles and Desert Eagles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is

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How many similar incidents have occurred in the intervening 17 years?

My county got one armored vehicle and some sort of tent that must be really cool. It cost a fortune! And it got water filtration, other kinds of tents, etc. It sounds like our cops must like to camp

One armored vehicle doesn't bother me. I could see a legitimate SWAT team using that in certain situations.

Everyone seems to forget Die Hard...

backslashbaby said:

My county got one armored vehicle and some sort of tent that must be really cool. It cost a fortune! And it got water filtration, other kinds of tents, etc. It sounds like our cops must like to camp

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Someone should warn the area wildlife.

Don said:

How many similar incidents have occurred in the intervening 17 years?

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Few that are exact copies I would imagine, but if you do a bing search for police shootouts 2014-past month, it returns a lot of results-many with videos.

jimmymc said:

Few that are exact copies I would imagine, but if you do a bing search for police shootouts 2014-past month, it returns a lot of results-many with videos.

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With a preponderance of H-K assault rifles and Desert Eagles, I assume?

My county apparently had some serious lust in their hearts for night vision goggles and intensifiers for the same. They cost 6-10k for the intensifiers and 6k for the goggles. 18 pages of the stuff! 50 per page. (The night vision stuff listed in quantities of 1) To be fair, there were a few pages worth of camping and cold weather gear. Not a tank or APC to be seen, though there were some rifles.

I'm just wondering what the hell they need all that night vision crap for. SMH.

Here's what our police department says they wanted the MRAP for. Notice that our mayor isn't convinced.

http://www.davisenterprise.com/loca...lice-vehicle-revs-up-militarization-concerns/

Cranky said:

I'm just wondering what the hell they need all that night vision crap for. SMH.

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i'm sure it's just for a frolickin' midnight game of hide 'n seek...

William Haskins said:

i'm sure it's just for a frolickin' midnight game of hide 'n seek...

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Well, it ain't for Lazer Tag, that's for sure.

I can see the usefulness of camping and cold-weather gear, especially in areas prone to extreme weather. Not for police use particularly, but as emergency supplies for victims of natural disasters, etc. That would be useful. As would water-filtration and emergency medical supplies, air conditioning units, and generators. So why aren't the Red Cross, or local disaster-response teams, getting this stuff? There are probably a lot of small towns in high risk places that would love to get this kind of supplies, but don't qualify for 'law enforcement supplies'.

I think the problem with the military-grade weapons and vehicles is that it's really hard to imagine a group, anywhere, with a warehouse full of really cool, high-powered stuff like that, that isn't going to have an urge to use it. If you've got a brand new shiny hammer, there are nails everywhere.
Like the Davis police: (from the article) "He said the most likely situations would be “where there’s live fire, or we have information that people are going to have weapons.” "
Well, a drunk celebrating by firing off a few rounds is technically 'live fire' isn't it? And, from what I read here, a good percentage of the U.S. population are going to have weapons of some kind, somewhere. So, bring on the armoured vehicles!

When the zombies come, y'all are gonna be sorry the local pd isn't better armed. Especially when they all get overtaken, bitten and turned.

Don said:

Oh, yeah... and the citizens of Trumbull county, Ohio, would like to thank you for the piccolo.

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Maybe it's an magical non-lethal enchanted piccolo that sends rioters to sleep?

Sacramento County has acquired hundreds of rifles and only 25 screwdrivers. A large number of helicopters too, which explains why I've been hearing so many more of them flying around in recent years.

Here's an interesting article that provides an Austrian explanation for this militarization and the ever-growing disconnect between police forces and the people they "serve."

So how did we go from “peace” officers to “police” officers to “law enforcement” officers anyway? How did we go from “protect and serve” to “escalate and harm”? And what is behind the militarization of police departments and the rise of the warrior cop, as one writer terms it?

Well, as Austrians and libertarians we should hardly be surprised, and we certainly don’t need a sociological study to understand what’s happening. The deterioration in police conduct, and the militarization of local police forces, quite simply and quite predictably mirrors the rise of the total state itself.

We know that state monopolies invariably provide worse and worse services for more and more money. Police services are no exception. When it comes to your local police, there is no shopping around, there is no customer service, and there is no choice. Without market competition, market price signals, and market discipline, government has no ability or incentive to provide what people really want, which is peaceful and effective security for themselves, their families, their homes, and their property. As with everything government purports to provide, the public wants Andy Griffith but ends up with the Terminator.

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When we speak of "public servants" it's perhaps wise to remember that "To Serve Man" was a cookbook. I think we've been "served" quite enough, thank you very much.

The article is not by an Austrian author. Hmmm.

Hmmm...my county only uses pistols and rifles. We need a pizza oven.

And a bouncy castle.

We know that state monopolies invariably provide worse and worse services for more and more money.

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That's a false statement. In fact, in industries like utilities, state monopolies provide better service at lower cost than investor-owned utilities.

clintl said:

We know that state monopolies invariably provide worse and worse services for more and more money.

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That's a false statement. In fact, in industries like utilities, state monopolies provide better service at lower cost than investor-owned utilities.

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Good point. I remember how much better off we all were when AT&T had a government-protected monopoly over telephone service, and we all had those cool black phones with wires hooked to the walls and those nifty dials that you could turn, or even better, those buttons that made cool noises when you punched in a number. These darned new gadgets don't even have ten buttons anymore. How do you dial a 4 with only three buttons?

Not to mention public education, where test scores are rocketing, students are seeing more and more opportunities to express their individuality, and the whole system gets less expensive year after year.

Of course, it's disingenuous of me to ignore the USPS, since first-class postal rates have been falling and delivery services expanding for decades. The way they beat up UPS and FedEx when it came to package delivery was nothing short of amazing.

Who could forget the wonderful era when we had three whole networks to choose from when it came to television? Three choices are plenty.

Who hasn't enjoyed a relaxing tour on AmTrak, at rates so far below the airlines that it makes no sense to fly. It's amazing that they can turn a profit and still provide such elegant and inexpensive service to almost every point in the country.

Why, I bet if it weren't for government involvement, our infrastructure in general would rate no better than a D+ when reviewed by the American Society of Civil Engineers.

Finally, I should mention the great job the EPA is doing protecting our environment, the cancer-causing cures for dry skin that we're protected from by the FDA, and the plummeting costs of health insurance now that the ACA has been implemented.

And of course, in this particular thread, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention our ever-more-just justice system and the ever-more-friendly and courteous police forces.

Hopefully, government will take over the grocery stores soon, so we can enjoy the low prices and wide array of choices seen on the shelves in Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea.

Xelebes said:

The article is not by an Austrian author. Hmmm.

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Har-de-har-har. That was a good one.

AT&T was an investor-owned monopoly.

TV networks? All investor-owned.

UPS and Fed Ex don't deliver anything for less than 50 cents. Actually, they don't deliver anything for less than several dollars.

Amtrak provides a service that the private sector abandoned. There would be no passenger rail service without public rail.

Private schools shy away from admitting English learners and kids with learning disabilities in favor of kids from rich families with massive social advantages and privilege. They might occasionally make an exception for poorer kids who have demonstrated exceptional talent. But any way you look at it, they're cherry-picking their students. And in fact, there is little difference, once socio-economic factors are controlled for, between public and private school students on tests.

Besides that, I was talking about natural monopolies, like electricity, water, sewer, etc. Public agencies like SMUD consistently provide more reliable service at a lower cost than investor-owned utilities like PG&E (to give two examples from the Northern California area).

Oh, that crumbling infrastructure? The taxpayers themselves should look in the mirror on that one for not being willing to fork over the tax dollars to fix it.