All Things Middle Grade

swanndown

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Thanks Heza and Sissybaby. I'll look forward to hearing what youz guyz are up to.
 

timp67

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Welcome, swanndown, and good luck! :)
 

Morrell

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Just ran across this on Angelica Jackson's blog: a video of Gary Schmidt talking about writing & about Okay For Now as he wanders around his farm, plays with the dog, and pets the cat.)

Love this quote from him:

"The more difficult thing is to figure out how the writing can fit into the cracks of all the business of your life."
 

MJWare

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I'm in need of some kidlit gang expertise. I'm shopping my latest manuscript with various titles (because I can't settle on one), but also prepping in case I go the self-publishing route again (my sales of SZJMB are still very strong and, so far, none of the agents who liked my writing last time have shown any interest in this one).

If I self-publish, I've settled on a title Zack & Zoey's Alien Apocalypse, but with a more descriptive sub-title to help the book get picked up on searches (using words like middle grade, kids, adventure). But here's my concern: Is the word "apocalypse" too difficult for MG readers, especially RR's (think Wimpy kid level here).
I don't mind mixing in a few challenging words in the text, but having one in the title might be a turnoff. I could go with Alien Adventure, Attack, Awesomeness, etc. But none of those work as good as Apocalypse.

What's your take, do you think the title "Alien Apocalypse" will turn off MG readers? Or will they just sound it out and then go, oh cool.

Any feedback is welcome.
 

JoyMC

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It's a good question, Mike. I was recently considering the title of my WIP and while I wanted to have the word Quetzal in the title, I decided not to because too many people, especially middle graders, wouldn't know how to pronounce it or what it means.

But I think Ruth's right - apocalypse is probably known enough, even if it's a difficult word. AND it's a word that any teen or grown-up knows for sure, so it's easily figured out. Plus, I think you're going to have your target audience at Zombie. :)
 

MJWare

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But I think Ruth's right - apocalypse is probably known enough, even if it's a difficult word. AND it's a word that any teen or grown-up knows for sure, so it's easily figured out. Plus, I think you're going to have your target audience at Zombie. :)
This one is Aliens--though the point still stands. I plan to tie this book in with a similar looking cover and maybe even an imprint name.
 

luxisufeili

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It's a good question, Mike. I was recently considering the title of my WIP and while I wanted to have the word Quetzal in the title, I decided not to because too many people, especially middle graders, wouldn't know how to pronounce it or what it means.

But I think Ruth's right - apocalypse is probably known enough, even if it's a difficult word. AND it's a word that any teen or grown-up knows for sure, so it's easily figured out. Plus, I think you're going to have your target audience at Zombie. :)

Aw, I loved quetzals since elementary school age because I had a book with a step-by-step guide to draw them. I don't think it would hurt to have that in your title. It'd be interesting.
Plus, there's a character in the show Dragon Tales (a cartoon that ended in 2005) with the name Quetzal. Except he's a dragon, not a bird.
 

Cake

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I'm going to have show my ignorance and admit that I had to look up quetzal, and today I have learnt something new.

I do MG too! So I thought I'd come and bond
 

Kewii

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Hi Cake!

I also had no idea what a quetzal was. The picture is very cute though :)

I think I am close to finishing up my first Middle Grade MS...I'm a bit worried it might be a bit short though.
 

sissybaby

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I always LOVED Dragontales. One of my favorite shows when my middle child was small - and I'd watch it even after she started going to school, but I don't often admit that.
 

luxisufeili

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I watched little kids' cartoons well into middle school, since all I had was PBS Kids. No Disney Channel, no Cartoon Network. Insanely jealous of my friends who had gazillions of channels only a button away. Then again, I think that saved my brain from getting fried by bad shows.
 

A.C. Thomas

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Hey everyone! My name is Angie. I'm a newbie who is currently working on an upper middle grade fantasy novel. Whew! Talk about a chunk of words there.

Anyway, as I polish up my book, I keep reading things about the acceptable length in middle grade. Some people say with fantasy and upper middle grade, going beyond 60,000 words is okay. Others, not so much. I'm experiencing the "to cut or not to cut, that is the question" syndrome and well, it sucks.

Maybe this has been discussed, and I apologize if it has, but with upper middle grade, especially fantasy, is the market open to over-fifty thousand-but-under-eighty thousand books?

And another thing that bugs me - does upper middle grade status depend more on the mc's age or the subject matter?
 

profen4

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Hey everyone! My name is Angie. I'm a newbie who is currently working on an upper middle grade fantasy novel. Whew! Talk about a chunk of words there.

Anyway, as I polish up my book, I keep reading things about the acceptable length in middle grade. Some people say with fantasy and upper middle grade, going beyond 60,000 words is okay. Others, not so much. I'm experiencing the "to cut or not to cut, that is the question" syndrome and well, it sucks.

Maybe this has been discussed, and I apologize if it has, but with upper middle grade, especially fantasy, is the market open to over-fifty thousand-but-under-eighty thousand books?

And another thing that bugs me - does upper middle grade status depend more on the mc's age or the subject matter?

In a word, yes. It just has to work. If the writing is tight and the story is tight, over 80K words is going to be okay. At least, that's how I feel about it :)

As for your second question, I think it's a combination of the two. I read a blog a while back that said most MG kids don't like to read stories about kids younger than them, but they will read them about kids older. Most of the upper MG novels I've read, and I read a lot of upper mg, have protags 12 or 13 years old.
do ngu do ngu nam cao cap do dung cho me sau sinh ban buon quan ao vest cong so nu album anh dep
But to further muddy the water for you, I have seen some agents looking for MG/YA crossovers lately.
 
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JoyMC

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with upper middle grade, especially fantasy, is the market open to over-fifty thousand-but-under-eighty thousand books?

And another thing that bugs me - does upper middle grade status depend more on the mc's age or the subject matter?

Welcome Angie! The short answers to your questions are Yes, and Subject Matter.

But the longer answer to the question on length is that if you can - and you very likely can - you should cut. Most writers overwrite, especially in the beginning. So go through and be as ruthless as you can. In the end, regardless of acceptable word count guidelines, you'll still likely have a better product.

(It's not always true. Some writers underwrite, and maybe you need every single word. Possible. But cut what you can.)

I used to teach playwriting, and I always did an exercise where my students wrote monologues based on whatever criteria, and then, when they were marveling over their completed work, I would tell them they had to cut the word count in HALF. And they'd all look like they wanted to cut me in half. But then, after doing it, most of the time the monologues would be vastly better.

And an additional bit of advice is to be sure you're reading lots and lots of recently released upper middle grade fantasy. It's the best way to see what's acceptable in the market.