are you an outline writer or write by the seat of your pants?

Outlining, for me, takes me away from writing. I want to write, not outline.

But I do keep notes, if need be, and if things are happening according to a schedule, time table or calendar, I write all that down.

I was a teacher for 35 years. Know how many times I assigned 'outlining?' Never. I used to think it was the worst possible 'busywork' assignment anyone could ever give. I hated it as a student and just as much as a teacher. So maybe that's why I don't outline as a writer.

No, I just don't need the extra work, and I like to 'discover' the book or story the same way the reader does.

Yes.

I do both depending on the story.

jaksen said:

I was a teacher for 35 years. Know how many times I assigned 'outlining?' Never. I used to think it was the worst possible 'busywork' assignment anyone could ever give. I hated it as a student and just as much as a teacher. So maybe that's why I don't outline as a writer.

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Not even for non-fiction? Like, essays?

I can't imagine asking someone to do an outline for a short story, which is about as long as most school assignments would ever get.

But for an essay? I think outlines are really good ways for students to learn about structure and make sure their ideas make sense before they get too caught up in the word choice.

I'm not sure something similar might not apply to novel-writing.

jaksen said:

Outlining, for me, takes me away from writing. I want to write, not outline.

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I've seen statements like this many times. I suppose it depends how much you put into an outline. To me, making an outline IS writing. Or, should I say, story telling. Only it is high level with some nebulous ideas on what takes place.

It's like taking a hike through unfamiliar country with no roads or trails. To stay going in the correct direction, you pick landmarks and steer toward them. That's the outline. What you find and what you do between the landmarks is the fun part of the hike. That's the writing.

All the outline does is keep you on course.

I was in writing hell for years because I believed I needed an outline. I would start the book and realize I wanted to make a change, then re-outline, then change and re-outline, and again and again, multiply that times six dozen revisions and double that many outlines....

Then I read "On Writing" by Stephen King and realized that there were people who just write...apparently, I'm one of those people. I wish I could be as organized as an outliner and stick to the plan, but my writing comes out dull when I do that.

If outlining isn't working, don't confine yourself to an outline. Just bear in mind there will likely be some trial and error and that you should have some idea how you want the book to end by the time you've reached the middle Hope this helps!

I'm somewhere in the middle, as I'm still learning as I go along but I've found that if I do my research on my idea first and have a rough idea, ie by rough I know some of the beginning, some of the middle, maybe, and some of the ending. I also have the MC and possibly another character or so before I begin. I found the hard way I need to build my world and character first at least for me and maybe not completely but I have to have some idea of where I am heading before I start. Then I write the rest as it comes along. I actually wrote the outline before I began revisions so I could figure out more of the puzzle pieces.

I'm still recovering from the stress and elation over the last one to come to fruition, after years of worry and toil. Years.

Another one is putting its impatient hand up from the back of the class and will be next. The outline is in my head, but I'm hopeless with names and need to carefully write those down to save me mixing them up when the real writing starts again.

I'm still making excuses to put that process off for a while longer. It's too hot today anyway, over forty in the shade and it's only nine in the morning.

Jamesaritchie said:

I never outline. You couldn;t pay me to outline. But I hate the word "panster",

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So do I.

I prefer "organic writer," with regards to myself, though that term may not be a good fit for everyone who writes without an outline.

Michael Steven said:

I've seen statements like this many times. I suppose it depends how much you put into an outline. To me, making an outline IS writing. Or, should I say, story telling.

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Which is a major reason I don't outline. Once the story is told, I lose all interest in telling it again.

BethS said:

Which is a major reason I don't outline. Once the story is told, I lose all interest in telling it again.

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I know that feeling. I now know what's going to happen, I know the end, I know the story... ok, bored now, moving on. Is usually what happens to me.

Which is why I try not to outline too much. But, lately that's just had me turn in circles..

I guess I do the hybrid thing, trying to balance my chaotic vs. my easily bored side.

I outline, but not in detail.

I'm outline-fluid. Each project is different and has different degrees of outline. Some are rigorously outlined. Some are more nebulously done. Sometimes I have the whole thing planned out from beginning to end, sometimes I just outline as I go, only outlining as far as I can see ahead of me.

I never, ever, ever stick rigidly to an outline. Ever. If in the process of writing, I find something comes up that is better than I have sketched out, I go with it and adjust my outline as necessary.

I'm a hardcore outliner. I love writing theory and the technical aspect of writing, so I really enjoy outlining. Playing around with the pieces and bits of story telling and character development, figuring out how to make the different elements work together, that's the fun part. Writing it all down is (mostly) work.

Once the story is told, I lose all interest in telling it again.

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I know that feeling, but I found out it only happens with weak stories. I usually outline several ideas until I find one that leaves me super excited to start writing. When I get this "meh" feeling after I finished an outline it usually means that the idea was not so great so begin with and I prefer to figure that out before I spent several month of my life on that idea.

I have just started writing another novel. As with my other two novels, I know the story and I know how I am going to start it, but then at about Pg 50 I allow the protagonists to help with with the story.

Hardcore pantser (and yeah, I prefer "organic" or "discovery", or just plain "non-outliner"). Why write the outline when I could just write the story? It is like writing the story again, and boring - and not because the story is weak. It's because it's like reading the same book over and over and over - it's just boring. And pantsing doesn't mean ending up with a hot mess, or countless revisions. Like James, I pay attention to what I've written and make sure I'm not going off into left field. Otherwise I like to find out where the story's going as I'm writing it, and I revise/edit as I go because I like the idea of a complete revise/edit at the end of the story as much as I like outlines.

maggi90w1 said:

I know that feeling, but I found out it only happens with weak stories. I usually outline several ideas until I find one that leaves me super excited to start writing. When I get this "meh" feeling after I finished an outline it usually means that the idea was not so great so begin with and I prefer to figure that out before I spent several month of my life on that idea.

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*sits next to you, offers you a beverage*

maggi90w1 said:

I know that feeling, but I found out it only happens with weak stories. I usually outline several ideas until I find one that leaves me super excited to start writing. When I get this "meh" feeling after I finished an outline it usually means that the idea was not so great so begin with and I prefer to figure that out before I spent several month of my life on that idea.

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That's one of the best reasons for outlining I've seen. I've had the same thing with outlining. There are some ideas I'm super excited to write when I finish the outline. For others, I just feel kind of meh. I don't discard them. I just leave them for a time when I can come up with a better version of the story.

I've never spent months on a story before realizing it was "meh". I start writing and know, within 1-2 chapters at the most, whether it's actually going to work or not. Then again, I like the challenge of making an idea work.

I write my novels in one-sitting 72-hour writing marathons. I don't outline in any way, shape or form. I go into these marathons with nothing but a title.

I wrote my first draft of my novel by the seat of my pants (because outlining is not art!). But my art turned out as more of an elephant dung painting than a Sistine Chapel.

So now, in re-writes and revisions, I'm outlining chapter by chapter, figuring out what each chapter is meant to do, compared to what it actually does. It ain't pretty, but it's been amazingly effective.

Would I start my next novel with an outline to spare myself all of this headache? Nope! I'd do it exactly the same way again, because it's working for me. But I'm not sure I'd recommend it to others.

paddismac said:

because it's working for me.

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That's pretty much the answer.

I write rather spontaneously, but when I have my ideas down, I decide what I will want for a chapter/scene, etc. to accomplish, and shift things around accordingly.

When I'm feeling a little high brow, I refer to myself as a "Narrative Outliner." I sit down and write until I finish a draft. That draft is about half the size it will become after editing. I don't let myself get stuck on scenes. I just make a giant "FINISH THIS" note and keep going. Whatever works, right??

I go with my pants but that doesn't mean I don't have some sort of outline in my head I go by. I just keep it bottled up because I want all the energy and excitement I feel for a story to come out as I am writing it, not before.