Ferguson, MO - Take two or three

I'm just happy to click on this and find out that the thread title DID NOT mean another kid had been shot.

Cyia said:

I'm just happy to click on this and find out that the thread title DID NOT mean another kid had been shot.

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Me too.

I find the UN discussion fascinating. We are signatories, so their recommendations on police brutality, etc, will not be something the feds can brush off!

The federal investigation is still ongoing, so it probably ruffles some feathers for our feds. But we'll have to address the UN pretty formally about the problems. Very interesting.

I'm very glad the parents found that route. It's my understanding that it's about the bigger problem, not just the specifics of their son's case (which isn't concluded at all legally yet). My criticism would be that it might be premature, because the federal wheels are still very much in motion regarding Ferguson and officers from surrounding areas.

CNN has re-interviewed three of the eyewitnesses to the case:
First, Piaget Crenshaw and Tiffany Mitchell
Both stand by their accounts, including that:
- they saw the entire altercation
- Brown was trying to pull away from Wilson
- Brown had his hands up when he was shot.
- they also indicate Wilson was aware of their account when he gave his.

Dorian Johnson's interview is here.
He also stands by his account, especially that Brown never reached into the cruiser.

Cyia said:

I'm just happy to click on this and find out that the thread title DID NOT mean another kid had been shot.

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Yet.

nighttimer said:

Yet.

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String enough "yets" together, and you'll eventually get to "ever".

An "no child was shot ever," is a title I would love to see.

Cyia said:

String enough "yets" together, and you'll eventually get to "ever".

An "no child was shot ever," is a title I would love to see.

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I would too. But I'm not expecting to ever see that day.

As it was pointed out in the previous thread by more than a few posters, Michael Brown was certainly no boy and not yet a man, but old enough to be regarded a threat? Most certainly, if all you saw when you look at Michael Brown was his stature, attitude and color.

NY Daily News is reporting a timeline of Wilson's actions based on police reports obtained from Aug 9th.

The timeline of the calls does help explain whether Wilson knew there were suspects loose when he stopped Johnson and Brown. It sounds credible (imho) that he didn't know when he spoke to them, then he did know, and that helps explain why he would reverse so fast.

The sound of him reversing/stopping is what drew Piaget and/or Tiffany's attention to the scene. I remember thinking it must have been urgent sounding.

Found this, although it's not new, I don't think it's linked yet.

[/QUOTE]
One Canfield resident — who said he saw the killing of Brown from start to finish and talked to the grand jury recently — has given the Post-Dispatch an account with some key differences from previous public statements from other witnesses.

Among the recollections of the witness, who agreed to an interview on the condition that his name not be used, were:

• After an initial scuffle in the car, the officer did not fire until Brown turned back toward him.

• Brown put his arms out to his sides but never raised his hands high.

• Brown staggered toward Wilson despite commands to stop.

• The two were about 20 to 25 feet apart when the last shots were fired.

[/QUOTE]

There's also this about witness testimony.

Differences in witness accounts are no surprise to researchers, who even have a name for it: the Rashomon effect. It’s derived from the title of a Japanese movie in which four witnesses’ accounts of a rape and murder differ notably.
“That’s why anyone who wants to put complete faith in his statements is foolish and anyone who wants to completely discount what Dorian Johnson saw, is foolish,” said David Klinger, a University of Missouri-St. Louis criminologist. “It is entirely possible that multiple witnesses will recall different things. That’s why it’s critical to wait and see what all the evidence shows.”

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State of Emergency declared:

http://governor.mo.gov/news/executive-orders/executive-order-14-14

backslashbaby said:

State of Emergency declared:

http://governor.mo.gov/news/executive-orders/executive-order-14-14

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Reading between the lines, he knows there is no true bill returned and all heck is about to be unleashed. There will be a press release probably timed to hit tonight's news or the morning talk shows.

Just my opinion.

I think he probably would have called the Guard in regardless, so I still have hope.

The KKK and everyone and their mother have talked about going to Ferguson for the verdict. It really is scary, imho

backslashbaby said:

State of Emergency declared:

http://governor.mo.gov/news/executive-orders/executive-order-14-14

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Just the fact that he's declared a state of emergency before the grand jury's decision is even released is starting unrest. It's already popping up in my twitter. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I also find it disturbing how many times he says it's in the interest of "protecting civil rights" in that document.

Yeah, I'm reading some of those tweets now.

I have to wonder if it's not a bad idea to have the national guard there. The FPD clearly had no idea how to deal with the protests. Does anyone think it's a bad idea?

backslashbaby said:

I think he probably would have called the Guard in regardless, so I still have hope.

The KKK and everyone and their mother have talked about going to Ferguson for the verdict. It really is scary, imho

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Every state is a bit different and I am not a lawyer, but.......

Point of clarification: there is no verdict involved at this step. For those who are not familiar with the process. there are generally two ways to start the criminal charge process.

(a) An accusation<which often happens when someone pleas down to a lesser and included charge and they don't want to go back to the grand jury for a new indictment and (b) An indictment. Evidence is presented and the grand jury returns a "No Bill," or a "True Bill." If no billed, it can end right there, unless new evidence is presented later (statute of limitations is a whole different area that needs a lawyer)

True Bill means they felt there was enough to go ahead.

Next would come an arrest warrant for any charges, an arrest, an arraignment, trial (with motions and discovery and the whole carnival of things), possible pre-sentence investigation if there is a guilty verdict, then actual sentencing.

Sentencing could be split, straight prison or straight probation.

Main point. I don't want anyone to take the word "verdict" out of context for something that either way is a long way away.

Those here who are lawyers may speak on it, but this is the layman's quick version of the process.

Sending good thoughts to our AW-ers and their families in the Ferguson area. Looks like it's about to hit the fan again.

I don't think it's a bad idea, no. I'd trust them much more than their local law enforcement from what all I've read/seen video of.

That's not how many people are taking the move, but I really do think the possibility of widespread unrest is when you do call in the Guard.

We had a massacre here when I was little, during a planned anti-Klan rally that the KKK crashed, where the KKK killed folks. I wish the Guard had been here then (but it was a small event so that's just hindsight). This situation in Ferguson sounds much more volatile before the event, imho.

T Robinson said:

Every state is a bit different and I am not a lawyer, but.......

Point of clarification: there is no verdict involved at this step. For those who are not familiar with the process. there are generally two ways to start the criminal charge process....

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Oh, yes, I'm sorry!

So if they don't indict, then what? I've heard that Eric Holder may convene a federal grand jury as well. Or am I wrong in that?

Vince524 said:

So if they don't indict, then what? I've heard that Eric Holder may convene a federal grand jury as well. Or am I wrong in that?

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The federal case(s) are still being investigated, so much could come of those potential cases.

And then there will even presumably be recommendations from the UN that the federal government would have to answer in some way. That might sway Holder even more to not back off, I'd think.

The governor having knowledge of the grand jury proceedings at this point would likely be illegal. I think a 30-day order like this is prudent on his part.