Bill Cosby: America's Favorite Dad...and Rapist?

Dave Williams said:

...and *thirteen times*, none of the alleged victims went to the police station or rape center, got a legally-traceable DNA sample, and let loose the Lawyers of War?

If the alleged victims do nothing, they're part of the problem.

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Okay - you are a young woman who went back to a movie star's house, he drugged you, and you think you've been raped. You contemplate going to the police and accusing one of the richest and most beloved family-friendly actors in America of sexually assaulting you. Realistically, what do you think the likely outcome will be of being the woman who accuses Cliff Huxtable of being a rapist, knowing his Lawyers of War will characterize you as a lying slut looking to squeeze money out of a rich celebrity in the National Enquirer? Not knowing about the other twelve women, you're going to fight that battle?

Dave Williams said:

...and *thirteen times*, none of the alleged victims went to the police station or rape center, got a legally-traceable DNA sample, and let loose the Lawyers of War?

If the alleged victims do nothing, they're part of the problem.

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I broke some of this down in an earlier post. Please cite your sources or at least acknowledge mine now that I've drawn your attention to my earlier points.

Here in the UK no-one wanted to believe it of Rolf Harris when the accusations first appeared.

Dave Williams said:

...and *thirteen times*, none of the alleged victims went to the police station or rape center, got a legally-traceable DNA sample, and let loose the Lawyers of War?

If the alleged victims do nothing, they're part of the problem.

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The problem is solely confined to the individual breaking the law, and those who enable that person. The victim is NEVER part of the problem. You're blaming them for the actions of someone else. But, because you don't seem to get that, here's some quotes from the article linked in the below quoted post:

Vince524 said:

Not sure if this has been posted, but it's an editorial from 1 of the alleged victims. She makes a good case, but nothing that can be proven, I'm afraid.

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THE FOLLOWING ARE QUOTES FROM THE ABOVE LINK.

Back then, the incident was so horrifying that I had trouble admitting it to myself, let alone to others. But I first told my agent, who did nothing.

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A girlfriend took me to a lawyer, but he accused me of making the story up. Their dismissive responses crushed any hope I had of getting help; I was convinced no one would listen to me. That feeling of futility is what ultimately kept me from going to the police.

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I’ve been telling my story publicly for nearly 10 years.

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Only after a man, Hannibal Buress, called Bill Cosby a rapist in a comedy act last month did the public outcry begin in earnest.

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to commit these assaults against multiple victims over several years, there had to be a network of willfully blind wallflowers at best, or people willing to aid him in committing these sexual crimes at worst. As I told the Daily Mail, when I was a teenager, his assistants transported me to hotels and events to meet him. When I blacked out at Cosby’s home, there were several staffers with us. My agent, who introduced me to Cosby, had me take a pregnancy test when I returned from my last trip with him.

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He can no longer be charged for his crimes against me because the statute of limitations is long past.

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Dave Williams said:

...and *thirteen times*, none of the alleged victims went to the police station or rape center, got a legally-traceable DNA sample, and let loose the Lawyers of War?

If the alleged victims do nothing, they're part of the problem.

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Because some teenager doing McDonald commercials has the equivalent power, resources, and community support to take down Bill Cosby?


Do you know what happens when someone takes a rape accusation to court and loses? We've talked about how non-legal opinions on an issue are not subject to legal concepts. What we haven't talked about is how often legal concepts are mistakenly applied to non-legal issues. Being acquitted in court does not make someone innocent. It just means the prosecutor didn't have enough evidence to get a conviction. However, having your rapist acquitted in court is often conflated with innocence and or you being a lying slut, trying to smear a good man. When that good man is Bill Cosby, famous for his clean fatherly persona, the situation is even more extreme.

Rape conviction rates are tiny. You might have a 1 percent chance of getting a conviction, and an 80% of being reviled for the rest of your life because someone asshole got away with raping you and you had the utter gall to tell people he did it.


The only responsibility a victim of rape has to do whatever they think is best to help themselves recover. If that doesn't happen to include fighting a losing battle against a rich, famous celebrity, that's okay.

I'm NOT saying the women are lying. I AM saying it's a possibility, and until they provide proof, we should not accept it as probable, especially if it's based on Cosby being rich and famous. And no, I never make a judgement about someone based on rumors and accusations. I don't expect a legal level of proof for a personal judgement, but I look at the whole picture. I think most of us would like to think we would be judged in the same manner.

So have you looked at the whole picture? Have you read the women's accounts? Have you read up on the settlements? Have you done any research?

shadowwalker said:

I'm NOT saying the women are lying. I AM saying it's a possibility, and until they provide proof, we should not accept it as probable, especially if it's based on Cosby being rich and famous. And no, I never make a judgement about someone based on rumors and accusations. I don't expect a legal level of proof for a personal judgement, but I look at the whole picture. I think most of us would like to think we would be judged in the same manner.

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I don't follow this reasoning.

Thirteen different women allege they were drugged and raped by Cosby. But unless they provide proof, we shouldn't even accept that any of these allegations are probable?

How can you be "looking at the whole picture" while completely overlooking the 13-against-1 aspect of the he-said/they-said? What is it about Cosby that gives him, in your mind, better credibility than 13 women who don't even know each other with similar stories of being drugged and raped by him? Have you somehow overlooked the many posts in this thread pointing out just how hard it is to simply "prove" rape when the rapist will always but always claim he got consent? Or are you so enamored of Cosby's good daddy TV persona that you've forgotten that it was just acting?

I find it plausible and probable just based on the sheer number of people coming forward with similar stories. Cosby isn't the sort of public personality that would inspire a conspiracy of liars bent on bringing him down with false rape accusations.

I find it probably because of the number of people who have come out and accused him and based on my previous experience with similar situations.

I don't find it definite, of course, because that would be silly. But if I were to live or die by whether I correctly predicted the truth of the allegations, I would have to say I'd err on the side of them being true.

shadowwalker said:

So we are supposed to just accept the woman's word?

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We are not "supposed" to do anything. But we can accept it if we want to. Some of us do.

Dave Williams said:

...and *thirteen times*, none of the alleged victims went to the police station or rape center, got a legally-traceable DNA sample, and let loose the Lawyers of War?

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Wait a minute, how do you know they didn't, and what the hell difference would it make? In many of these cases, Cosby claimed the sex was consensual, and DNA doesn't prove consent one way or another.

Dave Williams said:

If the alleged victims do nothing, they're part of the problem.

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Out of all my friends who have been raped, (which is a lot, actually), none of them have reported it. Many of them have told me that they always thought they would report it if it happened to them, until it did. Then they couldn't go through with it.

So yeah, you probably shouldn't say things like that, if you don't know what it's like.

shadowwalker said:

I'm NOT saying the women are lying. I AM saying it's a possibility, and until they provide proof, we should not accept it as probable, especially if it's based on Cosby being rich and famous.

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(bolding mine) I really don't mean to be an jerk, but I seem to recall another thread in which you were complaining about people being perceived, and treated, differently because they are rich and famous. And how stupid you thought that was.

Yeah, I'm going to say that thirteen accusations with fairly consistent and credible stories puts it in the "probable" column. And yes, I'd judge similarly anyone else who had THIRTEEN accusers coming forward and accusing him of the same thing. Does that make him absolutely 100% for certain guilty? No, but if you decide he's probably not guilty, then you've concluded that thirteen women are probably lying, and I'd be curious to know the logic behind that.

Probably guilt would equal enough to bring this to court and I can't imagine that 13 women with no connection telling a similar story wouldn't be enough for probable cause level. Without a full airing of the facts and more proof, there wouldn't be enough for beyond a reasonable doubt. But yeah, this goes well beyond probable to me.

shadowwalker said:

I'm NOT saying the women are lying. I AM saying it's a possibility, and until they provide proof, we should not accept it as probable, especially if it's based on Cosby being rich and famous. And no, I never make a judgement about someone based on rumors and accusations. I don't expect a legal level of proof for a personal judgement, but I look at the whole picture. I think most of us would like to think we would be judged in the same manner.

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You are not saying the women are lying, but you are saying that there is a possibility that they are lying and so therefore it is safe to judge that the women are lying because they can't prove it. Gotcha. Okay perhaps, you aren't saying that it is safe to judge that the women are lying, but the words you utter betray you.

How about you confront these possibilities, individually:

- The thirteen women have been assaulted.
- The thirteen women have been acquainted with Bill Cosby.
- The thirteen women have identified their assailant as one individual.
- The thirteen women have identified their assailant as Bill Cosby.

So are you on the face going to dismiss the first proposition as lies just so you can dismiss the fourth proposition? Because what your words are so far saying, to me, suggests that you are doing the first. You might not be intending that but your words as written down are suggesting such.

And let me tell you, this is getting prickly.

Celia Cyanide said:

(bolding mine) I really don't mean to be an jerk, but I seem to recall another thread in which you were complaining about people being perceived, and treated, differently because they are rich and famous. And how stupid you thought that was.

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Still do. And here we have people ready to condemn the guy because there's just no way 13 women would have designs on a money settlement to make their accusations go away.

But I guess we're supposed to just say, yeah, these women wouldn't lie about this, he's guilty as hell. Funny how often that happens here, with stories like that. How dare anyone question the woman's voracity!?!

Ah well...

shadowwalker said:

Still do. And here we have people ready to condemn the guy because there's just no way 13 women would have designs on a money settlement to make their accusations go away.

But I guess we're supposed to just say, yeah, these women wouldn't lie about this, he's guilty as hell. Funny how often that happens here, with stories like that. How dare anyone question the woman's voracity!?!

Ah well...

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If it's just about money, why aren't their 13 or more women making similar claims against Donald Trump? Wouldn't he be a potentially more lucrative target than an aging 1980s sit-com and Jell-O spokesperson has-been?

By your reasoning, it seems wealthier people should automatically be granted the benefit of the doubt because obviously whoever claims they committed any crime against them is simply grubbing for money.








Voracity?

No really, it's OK, I'm pretty much they typo queen myself. Also, I'm very hungry.

And there's just no way Bill Cosby would drug and rape any of those 13, most of whom never sought or took a dime from him?

shadowwalker said:

Still do. And here we have people ready to condemn the guy because there's just no way 13 women would have designs on a money settlement to make their accusations go away.

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Except that some of the cases in question, including the one linked above, have NO monetary component. Zero Dollars. None.

The statutes have passed. They CAN'T get anything. All they can do is come forward to *maybe* lend some weight to another case that hasn't yet passed that limit.

shadowwalker said:

Still do. And here we have people ready to condemn the guy because there's just no way 13 women would have designs on a money settlement to make their accusations go away.

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If you think it's so stupid, then why are you giving him the benefit of the doubt because he's rich and famous? That's exactly what you said above, that if he were "just some guy" it would be different, but since he is rich and famous, they could be lying.

You're viewing him differently because he's rich and famous.

shadowwalker said:

Still do. And here we have people ready to condemn the guy because there's just no way 13 women would have designs on a money settlement to make their accusations go away.

But I guess we're supposed to just say, yeah, these women wouldn't lie about this, he's guilty as hell. Funny how often that happens here, with stories like that. How dare anyone question the woman's voracity!?!

Ah well...

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No one has said anything stronger than "probably."

Yes, it is possible all thirteen women are lying.

I don't think people who think Cosby is probably guilty are being any more prejudiced than someone who thinks thirteen women are probably lying.

We don't have the knowledge or evidence to try the case here. Is he an easy target? Could he settle out for a fortune? Innocent until proven guilty is the only fair assessment.

C.bronco said:

We don't have the knowledge or evidence to try the case here.

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That is why no one here is trying the case.