The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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James D. Macdonald

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A couple of things about press releases:

First, they should go out about a month before your book is scheduled , and
Second, a press release that doesn't have a copy of the book included with it is a waste of everyone's time.

The standard PA "resonate with an audience" ... "fits our specialty like a glove" press release doesn't give anyone a reason to read the book, or a newspaper anything to go with beyond "local man writes book."

All in all, the PA press releases do nothing for the book or its sales. I suspect their only purpose is to give PA the ability to mention on their web page how many press releases they send out every day (in order to draw in new and impressionable authors) without lying too much.
 
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Sassenach

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T--maybe. Jim's right about the essential uselessness of the kind of releases PA sends out [or doesn't]. And the only place 'local man/woman publishes book' will only fly in a tiny market.
 

underthecity

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The authors on that thread make a lot of good comments, and some are asking very good questions. Here are a few highlights:

I've written them on three occasions and I don't get a response, other than to send me repeated marketing suggestions.
When my book came out, I do not remember anything about a press release. . . my luck with e-mail and PA is awefull! So I call them and keep calling them until I speak to a person and get my answers satisfied.
There seems to be a lack of communication and general information concerning press releases. I never received a copy even though I specifically put my own name and address on the list I submitted.
Guess what folks...there are no press releases!..You are told not to include names of local press in your pre-order addresses because PA will do it...But they don't..There is no time to do it..All you need to see is the number of titles that are produced every week by PA to know they have no time to contact your local news media people
I have been published for six months, and I didn't know they put out press releases. Thought they did, but never saw or heard of one for my book, maybe missed it somehow.
Maybe P/A will read this and enlighten us as they so kindly do at times.
The pre-publication press release sent out (I received a copy) by PA was useless. I think the strategy is all wrong to bother with that, and maybe now they don't.
there is/was no press release. Fact is PA requested in the Author Questionnaire local newspaper information and a point of contact, which I provided. This suggests that they do provide newspaper publicity announcements for their books, or otherwise, why would they request such information?
How can we supply the press with a cover of our book when none has been designed or thought of yet? The e-mail to all of us seems an error in my view. I think some one goofed and sent these out before they were supposed to be sent. It makes no sense to contact anyone, until we have a cover and or a date the book will be available.
They have collected the info as to who to contact for a press release, which I sent them, but I never got an email telling me if it was actually sent.

Although these quotes are taken out of context, I believe they tell a story. The authors are questioning the marketing strategies of their publisher. It'll be interesting to see what infocenter comes up with, assuming they don't solve the problem by deleting the whole thread.

I would like to throw out this comment: as already pointed out, newspapers aren't going to run with every single press release they get. It could be rare--if it ever happens at all--that a big newspaper in a big city will announce the release of an unknown author's first book, vanity or not. However, small newspapers from the author's hometown may very well be interested. So, they really should not be so surprised when excited editors don't call them back. That's just the way it is, sorry folks.

underthecity
 

astonwest

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Absolutes

realitychuck said:
This is a lie -- the setup of PA is such that it is impossible for authors to get theit books into bookstores...

Just for future reference, it might be better for folks not to claim things as absolutes when they aren't. It may, in fact, be a pain in the butt (and highly unlikely to happen) for an author to get their PA book into a bookstore, but it's not impossible.

But, then, what do I know?
 

aka eraser

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NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
If the disagreement gets disrespectful, our lovely moderators are capable of handling the situation.

Victoria is lovely, sure. Jenna, Birol, Barb, Mac and the other women mods of the female persuasion - ditto.

Me, I've always longed for "ruggedly handsome" but have grudgingly settled for "used to be cute."

"Lovely" would take some getting used to but I've been called worse. ;)
 
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SeanDSchaffer

astonwest said:
Just for future reference, it might be better for folks not to claim things as absolutes when they aren't. It may, in fact, be a pain in the butt (and highly unlikely to happen) for an author to get their PA book into a bookstore, but it's not impossible.

But, then, what do I know?


You know quite a bit actually. It was harder than all get out for me to get my book into the one store it is in now. But it was done.

(However, it looks like it'll be a piece of cake to get it out: As no one's bought it yet since about October or November -- when they placed the one copy they have on their shelves originally -- I've called up that store and ask they remove it from their shelves. It's now behind the counter and waiting for me to pick it up, which I plan on doing later today.):D
 

T42

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Sassenach said:
T--maybe. Jim's right about the essential uselessness of the kind of releases PA sends out [or doesn't]. And the only place 'local man/woman publishes book' will only fly in a tiny market.
I agree with this. My thought would be why would a newspaper want to mention my book unless I was well known. That is why when pa told me they had sent a press release, I had my doubts. It would have been published if they had only because of my son's friend. If they had recieved it I would have told them at that point "don't you dare mention my book". I was just curious to see if pa really does what they tell everyone they do. NOT! By that time I was ready to ask that my contract be terminated and I also told them that they no longer had permission to market my book.
 

Ed Williams

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I totally agree...

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
It's always possible, I'm sure, but all we have to go on is the tenor of her posts, of which thus far I certainly have no complaints. Posting pro-PA opinions at AW does not in itself merit an attack, and unmerited attacks don't exactly forward the conversation.

Remember--this is supposed to be a safe place for respectful disagreement. Let's try to keep it that way. If the disagreement gets disrespectful, our lovely moderators are capable of handling the situation.
..with you, but I don't think expressing an opinion about the validity of a post is an attack, it's just an opinion. Fake post or real one, people are offering up their opinions about her situation and trying to help her, and that's quite appropriate.
 

Diana Hignutt

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Confessions of a (former) PA Booster

Since I have been admonished by one of our respected members for using my uncanny gift of amateur psychoanalysis on innocent PA Boosters, I will take their advice and offer in place a look at my own psychology during my PA adventures (without any mention of my specific PA grievances for legal reasons). I hope it will be a useful tool in understanding what goes on in the mind of PA supporters.

I found myself with PA through the "efforts" of a bad agent (Karen Carr - Finesse Literary Agency). The Writers Guide of Literary Agents listed her as having sold over 100 books in the new agency’s short duration. When she told me AmErica House had accepted my book I was delighted. I did a little research; back then they had a respectable website just for AmErica House. I was suspicious of the dollar advance and the contract term of 70 years plus all renewals, but my agent told me this was the best deal a new author was likely to get. When the contract came it was a PublishAmerica contract, with the AmErica House imprint listed on it. I listened to my agent, why on earth would she steer me wrong? After all she was going to be making money off my book, so she’d want me to get the best deal possible. Gullible? Sure, I was so happy to be published. Many of you understand that feeling. It felt real. I didn’t know any better.

I found the PA website, visited the PA MB. There were a bunch of new authors, all excited, all overjoyed to be published. At the time, I only posted once or twice; there was an air of amateurishness there that did not lend itself to my tastes at the time. Things were going well, right? so I began working on my planned second book in the trilogy and forgot about the PA MB for a while. My book came out and I promoted it with early success, landing major newspaper coverage and The O’Reilly Factor interview. I told PA about it and they posted the event with my book cover featured on their home page. What a thrill! At first, I had some success in getting book signings, readings and such, as I was becoming a minor Philly area celebrity and a well known name in the TG community. Most people, even in the industry had never heard of PA (at first). Soon, though, doors were closing on me. I found myself telling a bookstore manager that PA wasn’t a POD, they were something new, a grand experiment that would change the face of publishing–hey, that’s what they said on their website. It didn’t help. As I first began to find resistance I went back to the PA MB. There my accomplishments impressed people, there I was encouraged. There I found friends who were going through the same troubles I was. I got a big dose of the story about the industry fighting against the inevitable victory of PA. Soon there would be a major bestseller from the PA ranks. It was us against them.

My royalty checks at first were getting bigger: the first about $50 (the book hadn’t bee out very long), the second was about $180. It was growing, I was gaining readers. Sooner or later things would begin to really take off. Sure, other PA authors were having trouble, but they weren’t me. I had a distinct sense of superiority. If you get through a gender reassignment program you start to believe that you can do anything. My book was strong and unique, and I was told, most books, even those by the big houses had lots of errors (yet, I couldn’t remember that being true-still maybe I wasn’t reading enough new fiction)–there was no reason with my vast reserves of will power that I could do what no other PA author had yet done. I would have the first PA breakaway bestseller. Things were still going my way, I managed to cajole my way into a few more booksignings, more reviews, more national tv coverage.

When I was advised that my application to the SFWA would be declined because of their new rules against PA–I was mad. How dare the old boy publishing industry try and keep me down. This is how I felt. It sent me more deeply into the PA MB fold. It confirmed what I was being told there. And on that board I had friends, and we were going to help change the world of publishing. My PA friends respected me and supported me. I could still make it all work. I bought ads in RTIR, bought more bookmarks, posters, fliers, sold books at cost to bookstores, dressed as a fairy-tale princess and passed out fliers in downtown Philly. By then I realized that PA wasn’t going to come through on certain things they promised me, but they were a new company, if I only worked harder, surely they would eventually come through. I did only get into a few publishing arguments on the PA board (I owe apologies to Lisa Y and Canada James–I am so sorry, you guys were right, I was wrong). I did post all of my successes on the board for my friends to see, and unfortunately, I’m sure those posts brought many people into the PA trap. I still feel terrible about that.

Eventually, I found a website called wank.com (or something) were they were making fun of one of my PA posts–I was upset about a bad review in TG Community News (which I still feel was politically motivated), and other PA MB posts. I heard rumors, saw some things going down on the board that made me think twice. Sheryl Nantus contacted me and asked why I liked PA. Maybe, PA wasn’t so great. But there I was ... stuck. I had finished my second book which by contract I had to submit to PA. I got it back through negotiations, by demanding returnable books and a few other things. I found this place when some one posted on AW that my second book was going with Behler. I read a lot. I heard more rumors. Then came the PA Convention when it hit me like a ton of bricks. When Larry Clopper announced that PA had 8,000 happy authors, my stomach dropped. It was all a scam. All of it. A lie. I was banned shortly after the convention.

That’s what was happening in my head when I was a PA booster. That is why I post here–to try and undo some of the evil that resulted from my association with PublishAmerica. There it is.

Diana
 

Kate StAmour

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Hello and welcome Vanity Angel.

I'm glad that you are getting some satisfaction out of your experience with PA. I think it is important that you understand a few things, though:

When dealing with a "mainstream" (S&S, Harlequin, etc.) publishing house, editors actually edit.

When dealing with a "mainstream" publishing house, even if the author isn't a "Nora Roberts or Steven King," the PR department works on getting the book out and into bookstores. Note: the publisher does all of this, not the author, though it is always nice when an author is motivated.

When published by a "mainstream" publisher, authors just show up at book signings and the books are already there (they don't have to arrange it, purchase books, coordinate a marketing blitz, nada).

"Mainstream" publishers answer author emails.

"Mainstream" publishers reject most manuscripts.

"Mainstream" publishers tend to pay royalties on time, and they actually give the author a statement that reflects their sales.

Many of us who are planning on having lengthy careers as novelists signed with PA because we believed they were "Just like Random House," etc. Some people claim to have lost thousands of dollars purchasing books and paying for PR; these are people: with kids your age (or younger, or older) to feed, retired or disabled individuals on a limited income, single parents, survivors of abuse, budding artists. You need only read this thread in its entirety to hear some of the heartbreaking stories. Careers and lives have been destroyed as a result of PA's alleged unprofessional practices including: their sub-standard editing (I’ll be happy to send you copies of all drafts of my proofs. They are hideous and certainly support claims of poor editing) and alleged borderline abusive language via both email ( I have some rude, unprofessional emails from them to back up this claim too, as do many other individuals) and on the web (there are plenty of easily available fun-facts to support this claim as well buried within this thread).

I urge you to please read this thread from start to finish and form your own opinion. Many of the writers here including: Victoria, Jenna, Lynn Price, James Macdonald, AC Crispin, et al, make their living as professional authors/writers. Their sage advice and insight into how the world of publishing is supposed to work peppers this thread and remains incredibly valuable to new authors in particular.

Kate
 

Kate StAmour

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"It's always possible, I'm sure, but all we have to go on is the tenor of her posts, of which thus far I certainly have no complaints. Posting pro-PA opinions at AW does not in itself merit an attack, and unmerited attacks don't exactly forward the conversation."

"Remember--this is supposed to be a safe place for respectful disagreement. Let's try to keep it that way. If the disagreement gets disrespectful, our lovely moderators are capable of handling the situation."

My 2 cents:
I just attended a Human Rights Campaign rally in DC. A great deal of the rally revolved around meeting someone who has an opposing view with compassion and learning to speak their language; doing so puts a face on issues. Let me give you an example: Many parents complete Wills with Custody agreements so that if they pre-decease their children, they know their children/heirs will be well taken care of by a person they trust. Can anyone argue that a parent has the right to choose who will care for his or her children? In the state of VA (and some other states) controversial *Marriage Protection Acts* potentially invalidate documents, including Wills, when the parties named within are of the same sex. Most would agree that this is pretty scary stuff when presented in this manner. Now, if I would have said, " How can you deny my best friend her right to marry the woman she loves?" chances are, the person with the "opposing" view, would shut down and begin to argue rather than listen and engage in constructive dialogue.
I think it is important when engaging in a discussion with someone who is pro-PA that we try to meet them with compassion and understanding and speak in a language that takes the conversation from “potential anger/ego-fest “to” constructive dialogue." I know this issue is intensely personal and painful, but I just don't think we can get anywhere if we meet each other in anger. JMHO.

Kate

-- Spreading a little love today... :kiss:
 

NancyMehl

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Vanity Angel

VanityAngel said:
For all of you out there, PublishAmerica hasn't done anything wrong. And I don't know why you are complaining about the PA so much ... jeez. The only plaint that I have is that they suck at editing, they maybe fixed a few things and added one senteence, but alot of people that read my book found it good, but still found alot of mistakes.:hat:

Hmmmm. Well, if you are the 14 year old writer I'm thinking of, welcome. If you will hang out here and take advantage of all the assistance that is available, you will be far ahead of many of us when we were much older than you.

When I started writing, I was in my 40's. And I had a lot to learn. You do, too. In fact, you should read a column I wrote for MyShelf.com. It was titled "Alot is Not a Word."

It might help you. ;)

Nancy
 

NicoleJLeBoeuf

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Moderators of rugged loveliness and handsome beauty

aka eraser said:
Victoria is lovely, sure. Jenna, Birol, Barb, Mac and the other women mods of the female persuasion - ditto.

Me, I've always longed for "ruggedly handsome" but have grudgingly settled for "used to be cute."

"Lovely" would take some getting used to but I've been called worse. ;)
Wow, there are a lot more moderators than I thought--including your, er, rugged loveliness, Frank... ;) I mean, I thought "eraser" referred to the novel editing cycle, not forum smack-down. Blame it on them custom tags, I guess; if you hadn't changed 'em to wonky fun things like "trolling in circles for doofuses going WHOO-CHAAH!" then they would probably still say "Moderator," and then folks what're slow on the uptake like me wouldn't eat our feet!

Stealth moderators. Frightening! *quiver*
 

NicoleJLeBoeuf

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Ed Williams said:
..with you, but I don't think expressing an opinion about the validity of a post is an attack, it's just an opinion.
I'd feel attacked if I were called a "troll" or accused of "pulling our strings." Maybe V. A. has a thicker skin than moi.

Fake post or real one, people are offering up their opinions about her situation and trying to help her, and that's quite appropriate.
That sentiment I was never in disagreement with. I was only objecting to the replies that did nothing but call her a troll.

OK, not going to post again until I catch up on the last few hours of posts. :)
 

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159 new titles this week!

Weekly Books

Last week the theme seemed to be hands. This week the general theme, especially on the left row is – a silhouetted couple!

Folks, remember this – PublishAmerica is an ONLINE printing company. That means that in order to keep getting people from signing those indentured servitude contracts we need to not only keep this thread as alive as a swift current, but for all the authors who have seen what PA is, we can tell our stories by writing articles and putting them here:

Searchwarp.com
Goarticles.com
Articlecity.com
Learningfolder.com
Useless-knowledge.com
Homebiz-direct.com/articleWriting.html [article submission directory]

If you have a web site, put your articles on it. No site, but a web log – same thing, add your experiences to the growing information that can be found on major and minor search engines and directories.

Also, you can send out free press releases about PA and how you’ve been scammed. Just present the facts and figures, no dramatics or accusations please!

PRweb.com
Free-press-release.com
Express-press-release.com

Best of luck in getting your stories out there!
 

Kate StAmour

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NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
... if you hadn't changed 'em to wonky fun things like "trolling in circles for doofuses going WHOO-CHAAH!" then they would probably still say "Moderator," and then folks what're slow on the uptake like me wouldn't eat our feet!

Stealth moderators. Frightening! *quiver*

*Ouch!* I go Wooo Chaa. *sniffle* But, I'm not a doofus. *sniffle* *sniffle*
 

NancyMehl

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Yikes!

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
OK, not going to post again until I catch up on the last few hours of posts. :)

I know what you mean. If I don't check every day, I have no hope of catching up!

But - I'm dealing with my WIP today, so hopefully, y'all have plans tonight and when I check in tomorrow, I won't feel like giving up. :faint:

Nancy
 

Gratian Gasparri

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Moondancer said:
Where can you get a Ph.D. for $900? I feel robbed because it cost me much more than that per semester for a Master's.

I coulda used one this past Thursday. Had a brutal exam as part of my doctoral programme and it took me all of Friday to recover. If you're American, the $900 Ph.D. is done at a non Regionally Accredited university. Of course it has about as much value in the real world as a PA credit in the publishing world. You're better off simply going to General Delivery University and downloading your diploma.

In Canada, the $900 Ph.D. is impossible without some serious scholarship money, since in lieu of accreditation all degree-granting institutions must have a provincial charter. For our friends from the U.K., this is the equivalent of a Royal Charter.
 

NicoleJLeBoeuf

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Kate StAmour said:
*Ouch!* I go Wooo Chaa. *sniffle* But, I'm not a doofus. *sniffle* *sniffle*
Ah, damn. I was trying to be all cleverly tongue-in-cheek by piecing together the first four or five custom tags that jumped to mind--yours and Jaws's and Zaz's and Aka Eraser's and... I think that's all.

I like your Wooo Chaa. It makes me smile.

I've been trying to think up one for myself and nothing's quite ringing the right bells for me. Any suggestions? "Writin', Flyin' Weirdo-Freak" might be appropriate, but misleading, as I've never driven a motorcyle off a mountain road... And I have no actual personal PA experience to draw on for a running joke, so... blanks! Maybe "That doofus Zaz is looking for"?
 

James D. Macdonald

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Where can you get a Ph.D. for $900? I feel robbed because it cost me much more than that per semester for a Master's.

Check your spamtrap. Look for advertisements for "prestigious non-accredited universities."

These are the so-called diploma mills.

From Digital Diploma Mills:

In his classic 1959 study of diploma mills for the American Council on Education, Robert Reid described the typical diploma mill as having the following characteristics: "no classrooms," "faculties are often untrained or nonexistent," and "the officers are unethical self-seekers whose qualifications are no better than their offerings.

Now that ought to make you think of someone.
 
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JennaGlatzer

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PA Sales

Ever since royalty statements went out, I've gotten many e-mails from PA authors wanting to tell me that they're sure they sold more books than it reflects on their checks.

I don't doubt this.

However.

If you are a PA author and you have not hand-sold many copies of your book yourself, the odds are that you have not sold a lot of books. In other words, if your PA statement says you sold 3 books, but you know your aunt, uncle, cousin, grandmother, and neighbor all bought copies, yes, it's very possible you actually sold 5 books.

But! Don't be misled by Amazon/B&N rankings as a real barometer of sales. Yes, they can give you an *idea* of how your book is selling, but anything beyond 100,000 just means you've sold a couple of books at some point. (From what I've seen, the vast majority of PA books are closer to the 1 million-and-beyond mark.)

In other words, just in my opinion-- I would not put it beyond PA at all to fudge the checks, but if you're in the single or double-digit sales, it's such a small difference that it's worth fighting only on principle (so PA doesn't get to keep more $ it doesn't deserve). For your OWN purposes, it's not worth losing sleep over.

I know how heartbreaking it must be to keep hearing the advice "Just forget about this book and write a new one." There would be much gnashing of teeth if I had to do that. But I think it was Nicole who put it well when she said "Forget about it FOR NOW." It's possible PA will go down and you'll have your rights back soon. If not, you'll have them back eventually, even if you have to wait nearly 7 years. You can fight the uphill battle and make a few hundred sales, but your time really is better spent working on the next book that can be sold to a commercial publisher and have the probability of selling far more copies with far less effort on your part.

You've already learned a lot about the publishing world and what it should and shouldn't be like. That'll help you next time you work with a (real) publisher.

Don't let them win. Write another book, sell it, and prove to yourself that you always deserved better than PA. Don't let this stop you from writing if that's what you love to do. Success really is the best revenge.
 
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Jonathon Michaels

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T42 said:
You GO sky....I'm shocked that this thread is still up and running...

I'm not.

Sky, I think, just tried to pull a little fast one on those who have an issue. Basically they've got him there saying "They don't! No, you're absolutely right!" (no pun intended) So it looks like he's getting ready to turn on PA, right?

Nope.

He then, in subtle language (for the PA boards), turns it around on the author and defends PA. (Paraphrased to suit my post) "But of course they don't, they're soooooo busy." (Reading manuscripts? Editing? Marketing? :roll: ) "You just made a list for them, now use it to send out your own press release."

I think it'll remain for quite a while. He's just done major spin control for them. Take their weaknesses and lies and blame them on the authors, and act like they should be out doing PA's job instead of asking them to do it.
 

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Digression

NicoleJLeBoeuf said:
"Writin', Flyin' Weirdo-Freak" might be appropriate, but misleading, as I've never driven a motorcyle off a mountain road... And I have no actual personal PA experience to draw on for a running joke, so... blanks! Maybe "That doofus Zaz is looking for"?

Nicole, you should be grateful you've never driven a motorcycle of a mountain road. I understand there are usually really short cops and pickles involved.




(Upon Googling, I discovered that there are different versions to the Motorcycle Song than I remember from my childhood.....But I can't find any explanation for the lyrics changes... The version I remember has Arlo talking to a really short cop, who writes him a ticket and sticks in a pickle...hence the significance of the pickle. But all the lyrics pages online just have Arlo squashing a cop. Am I on crack?)

(This digression has been brought to you by Arlo Guthrie. I promise I will now return to the topic at hand. Publish America = Bad!!!)
 

Galoot

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JennaGlatzer said:
You can fight the uphill battle and make a few hundred sales, but your time really is better spent working on the next book...
Uncle Jim, responding to my first post here in a different thread, said:
Too many people don't burn their first novels (Hemingway dropped his over the side of a ship in mid-Atlantic, which also counts). That's an excellent first step.

This strikes me as one way to look at what PA does to your first book. :D
 
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