Just used Christine's link to the mystery forum. It's a great site and I've already stuck my nose in on a couple of topics. Thanks again to those who told me about it. Now I have one more way to spend time on a message board. Maybe I'll have to give up writing.
The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)
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Amen to this - It was so much easier before I realized my laptop was wireless - now even taking it out of my office and off the DSL cable (or whatever that cable is called) doesn't help. I have it set on wireless.
I've gotten myself trained where I spend a minimum of 2 hours a day writing (which is something I learned from our very own Uncle Jim) - and NaNo really kicked me into gear. I ended up writing two complete mss during NaNo and now I just have to revise them - blech.
I was journalism major in college - I wanted to be a sports reporter - and NOT one who asks dumb questions like "How do you feel about losing the Super Bowl?" Maybe when I grow up....
I think I'm going to print this out and hang it over my desk...
Just a word on this matter. Since I received a response to this in private, I won't comment on specifics. However, in this response, I found one inaccuracy in a statement I had made about the advances paid by legitimate publishers. The response did not, in my opinion, support the original claim that I had made "many" errors in what I've said about PA. Thank you for your time and effort in attending to this, Marie.
I spent a spare couple of hours putting those pages together. I had other things to attend to today, and didn't have time to dig through documents.
I won't bother to send you the rest of it, or supporting documentation since you think we have no common ground for discussion.
I won't bother to send you the rest of it, or supporting documentation since you think we have no common ground for discussion.
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Marie, you are a very touchy woman. You read way too much into things. Use your time for writing. You'll feel better, we'll all feel better.
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Thanks for the advice Steve, but I'm not feeling bad at all. If you are, I hope you're better soon.
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I think Marie and Queen both have much talent, compassion, and intellect. I admire and respect them. And hope they may find some common ground in which to continue to help others who visit AW.
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I just don't think any of us really feel our intentions are being best served by your posts recently, Marie. I know I dread reading a response you've posted lately. It didn't used to be that way, so it makes me wonder what could have turned you from your usually nice demeanor.
Marie, I've never seen a post from you that wasn't both gracious and professional.
You say what you mean and mean what you say.
You say what you mean and mean what you say.
I was out with my Mom recently when a colleague of hers gave us a flyer for his book signing at Borders. He invited us and was soooo excited about being published.
I thought it was great and offered congratulations. After he left, I looked at the flyer and, you guessed it, saw Publish America's logo at the bottom.
Because I have learned such a great deal from AW about other topics I trust what I've read here about PA.
My question is though, how did he manage to get a book signing at Borders? This isn't exactly a tiny area, and I imagine that there are other authors around here that are legitimately published.
What do you think his chances are of actually being successful with them?
I thought it was great and offered congratulations. After he left, I looked at the flyer and, you guessed it, saw Publish America's logo at the bottom.
Because I have learned such a great deal from AW about other topics I trust what I've read here about PA.
My question is though, how did he manage to get a book signing at Borders? This isn't exactly a tiny area, and I imagine that there are other authors around here that are legitimately published.
What do you think his chances are of actually being successful with them?
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I am sure he had to buy the books himself to provide them for the signing. The chance of success is limited due to the outrageous cover prices. I have known such authors to sell at a loss just to "get their name out there".
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All the Borders and Barnes and Nobles by me are very nice about allowing signings for local authors. In fact, they are good about giving space to just about anyone for meetings, events and fundraisers. I'm sure they see it as meeting the #1 PR rule (don't piss off the customer). Plus, in my area it is very competitive. There are 3 B&N store, 2 Borders and 4 independent bookstores within a half hour drive of my house.
His chances of being successful depend upon his definition of success. But it will be an uphill battle, with all the marketing on his shoulders.
I’ve been doing some thinking today, something I like to hold to a minimum, but reading a great many posts on this board spurred the little gray cells to action. I know, right away people are going to say this guy comes along and in four or five days he’s going to tell us we’re doing everything wrong. No, that isn’t it at all, but sometimes a newcomer gets a different perspective of things than those who have been close to the situation for a long time.
One of the purposes of any board is fellowship. Perhaps helping someone down in the dumps feel better or just enjoying the companionship of others who share similar beliefs. That works beautifully here.
Then there is the goal of steering people away from PublishAmerica. This brings to mind my father, a super salesman for Lever Brothers, Gillette, Scott Paper and a few other large companies. He used to say that regardless of what you say or do, 15 percent of the people will like you and believe you. Another 15 percent will dislike you and won’t believe a word you say. That leaves 70 percent to be won over if you go about it the right way. That’s pretty much the way it is here. There seems to be an endless supply of people ready to use PA so here is how I’d warn them away:
First of all I wouldn’t warn them. When I was much younger, kids were warned not to put beans in their nose or ears. As soon as the adults were gone we set out in search of beans. Most people don’t like to be warned. Some even see it as a dare. Place a chip on your shoulder and someone will knock it off.
Second, I wouldn’t shout. Think of Billy May, the huckster on TV. That first 15 percent believes everything he says and buys every product he touts. The persuadable 70 percent hit the mute button. Even on message boards or email, using all capitals is considered shouting and most of us don’t like to be shouted at. You have to take it from a drill sergeant or a boss, but a smart boss doesn’t do it. When someone shouts at an online site, we walk away.
So what approach would I take? That of the best friend or the kindly old grandfather. The person who lays an arm over your shoulder and quietly says, “Here’s a few reasons I wouldn’t recommend going with PublishAmerica.” Then name them, and there are many – no editing, no attempt to market to the public other than online retailers . . . Everyone here has a long list in mind. That 70 percent is open to persuasion from a friend or the nice old grandfather, but not from a shouter or someone issuing a warning like a traffic cop.
Under no conditions would I say, “PublishAmerica is a vanity press." It’s certain that a huge number of that 70 percent has checked out vanity presses. They know that the first step is writing a check or providing a credit card number. For $600 we give you a book. For $900 we’ll give you a really nice book. For $1200 we’ll give you a book that will turn Random House green with envy. That’s always the first step, money up front. PublishAmerica doesn’t ask for money up front. The people who have checked out the vanity presses will think I’m a liar or that I don’t know what I’m talking about. Instead, I’d lay that arm on a shoulder and say, “PublishAmerica makes its money by selling books to the people who write them. I think you can do better than that.” Then I’d give the names of some small presses to try. Not just say small presses, make it specific by providing names.
I’m sure there are other things that don’t leap to mind at the moment. All would be aimed at that persuadable 70 percent. Speak softly, have specific points about PA to mention and concrete suggestions to make, avoid buzz words or phrases that might trip me up. Like they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
One of the purposes of any board is fellowship. Perhaps helping someone down in the dumps feel better or just enjoying the companionship of others who share similar beliefs. That works beautifully here.
Then there is the goal of steering people away from PublishAmerica. This brings to mind my father, a super salesman for Lever Brothers, Gillette, Scott Paper and a few other large companies. He used to say that regardless of what you say or do, 15 percent of the people will like you and believe you. Another 15 percent will dislike you and won’t believe a word you say. That leaves 70 percent to be won over if you go about it the right way. That’s pretty much the way it is here. There seems to be an endless supply of people ready to use PA so here is how I’d warn them away:
First of all I wouldn’t warn them. When I was much younger, kids were warned not to put beans in their nose or ears. As soon as the adults were gone we set out in search of beans. Most people don’t like to be warned. Some even see it as a dare. Place a chip on your shoulder and someone will knock it off.
Second, I wouldn’t shout. Think of Billy May, the huckster on TV. That first 15 percent believes everything he says and buys every product he touts. The persuadable 70 percent hit the mute button. Even on message boards or email, using all capitals is considered shouting and most of us don’t like to be shouted at. You have to take it from a drill sergeant or a boss, but a smart boss doesn’t do it. When someone shouts at an online site, we walk away.
So what approach would I take? That of the best friend or the kindly old grandfather. The person who lays an arm over your shoulder and quietly says, “Here’s a few reasons I wouldn’t recommend going with PublishAmerica.” Then name them, and there are many – no editing, no attempt to market to the public other than online retailers . . . Everyone here has a long list in mind. That 70 percent is open to persuasion from a friend or the nice old grandfather, but not from a shouter or someone issuing a warning like a traffic cop.
Under no conditions would I say, “PublishAmerica is a vanity press." It’s certain that a huge number of that 70 percent has checked out vanity presses. They know that the first step is writing a check or providing a credit card number. For $600 we give you a book. For $900 we’ll give you a really nice book. For $1200 we’ll give you a book that will turn Random House green with envy. That’s always the first step, money up front. PublishAmerica doesn’t ask for money up front. The people who have checked out the vanity presses will think I’m a liar or that I don’t know what I’m talking about. Instead, I’d lay that arm on a shoulder and say, “PublishAmerica makes its money by selling books to the people who write them. I think you can do better than that.” Then I’d give the names of some small presses to try. Not just say small presses, make it specific by providing names.
I’m sure there are other things that don’t leap to mind at the moment. All would be aimed at that persuadable 70 percent. Speak softly, have specific points about PA to mention and concrete suggestions to make, avoid buzz words or phrases that might trip me up. Like they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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Hi everyone, PA and I have come to an agreement and all rights to my book have been returned to me. I am not going to discuss the agreement here, but I have to do what I think is right for me and my work.
With everything that has happened in the last several months of my life I have come to realize one thing. Life is to short to dwell on the negative things, I am moving on with my life and my writing. I will continue to work on finishing the book and once it is polished I will start the process of querying agents.
I would like to thank everyone for their support and encouraging words, without them I might have given up on writing. What I have learned about publishing from y'all has opened my eyes to the realities of the industry. There is no quick road to getting published and I am looking forward to the journey as I seek to get published.
I consider y'all my friends and hope to talk to you in the other areas of this forum. I will always lurk here in the PA threads, but I doubt I will post here anymore.
Sincerely,
Michael
With everything that has happened in the last several months of my life I have come to realize one thing. Life is to short to dwell on the negative things, I am moving on with my life and my writing. I will continue to work on finishing the book and once it is polished I will start the process of querying agents.
I would like to thank everyone for their support and encouraging words, without them I might have given up on writing. What I have learned about publishing from y'all has opened my eyes to the realities of the industry. There is no quick road to getting published and I am looking forward to the journey as I seek to get published.
I consider y'all my friends and hope to talk to you in the other areas of this forum. I will always lurk here in the PA threads, but I doubt I will post here anymore.
Sincerely,
Michael
Dick, good advice in any 'selling' situation.
Friendly persuasion is generally more successful than a smack to the head.
Unless, of course, you are a Zen master.
Thank you.
Michael, CONGRATULATIONS!
We'll keep an eye open for you on the other threads.
Friendly persuasion is generally more successful than a smack to the head.
Unless, of course, you are a Zen master.
Thank you.
Michael, CONGRATULATIONS!
We'll keep an eye open for you on the other threads.
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Another viewpoint from someone who works in a bookstore: the readers are our customers, not the authors. Having signings for books that (in many cases) are below our readers' standards could be seen as breaking that #1 PR rule. When a bookseller recommends a book to a customer, even by implication by having an author signing, that book had better be good or the customer is going to be pissed off.
The very first day I worked someone returned a book* for the reason that "it was stupid." How many customers don't return the book, but simply put that author/publisher/bookstore on their "avoid" list?
On the other hand, I have to admit there is a large subgroup of readers who seem to be perfectly happy reading books that hemorrage adverbs and extraneous adjectives from every sentence; books that are so larded with malapropisms and inappropriate word usage that they would make me run away screaming and bleeding from my eyeballs...so what do I know? (As you can tell, long sentences bother me not at all <G>.)
*not a PA book, a book by a major publisher. Returning a book because it was stupid was an entirely new concept to me, but one I wish I'd taken advantage of on several occasions...
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Congratulations, Michael! I couldn't be more thrilled for you. It must feel good to close this chapter of your writing career and turn the pages on a new one! Best of everything to you!
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