Will Self: "I Don't Write For Readers"

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shadowwalker

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Gosh, I find this so rude dismissive! Am I misreading, or something? Three posts now have said if you don't write for the reader, you're turning out crap - as though there's only one possible way to approach the job.

I don't recall saying you'd turn out crap - what I am saying is that writing only for yourself, without considering your audience, is not going to be as successful in communicating. Why? Because you're writing in a vacuum, basically. One is not saying, "Is this getting my point across?" or "Am I saying this in a way that people will understand?" or even "Will people enjoy reading what I have to say?". One is saying "I like what I've written and that's all that matters. If someone else likes it, okay, but it's not important." That's not communicating except by chance. And that's why I say it's like putting up a blog post.
 

mccardey

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I don't recall saying you'd turn out crap - what I am saying is that writing only for yourself, without considering your audience, is not going to be as successful in communicating. Why? Because you're writing in a vacuum, basically. One is not saying, "Is this getting my point across?" or "Am I saying this in a way that people will understand?" or even "Will people enjoy reading what I have to say?". One is saying "I like what I've written and that's all that matters. If someone else likes it, okay, but it's not important." That's not communicating except by chance. And that's why I say it's like putting up a blog post.

So - I'm not writing crap so much as communicating (if at all) purely by chance?

I'm still thinking dismissive applies, but have a nice day anyway.
 
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For what it's worth, I wrote my first book without even knowing what genre it was, so I could hardly have had a particular kind of reader in mind for it. Managed to do okay with it, though.

Not that I'm comparing myself to Will Self. Just saying I get what he means.
 

aruna

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I don't recall saying you'd turn out crap - what I am saying is that writing only for yourself, without considering your audience, is not going to be as successful in communicating. Why? Because you're writing in a vacuum, basically. One is not saying, "Is this getting my point across?" or "Am I saying this in a way that people will understand?" or even "Will people enjoy reading what I have to say?". One is saying "I like what I've written and that's all that matters. If someone else likes it, okay, but it's not important." That's not communicating except by chance. And that's why I say it's like putting up a blog post.

No. If you put your heart into it, if you do your very very best to make sure your story is TRUE in the deepest sense of the word, that every word is right and perfect, that the story is honed to be the very best it can be, if you put heart and love into it, then readers cannot fail to feel that. It will ring true, automatically.
How can you possibly write to please readers who are basically all a bunch of strangers out there?
I say write from the heart, and readers will come.
 

shadowwalker

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No. If you put your heart into it, if you do your very very best to make sure your story is TRUE in the deepest sense of the word, that every word is right and perfect, that the story is honed to be the very best it can be, if you put heart and love into it, then readers cannot fail to feel that. It will ring true, automatically.
How can you possibly write to please readers who are basically all a bunch of strangers out there?
I say write from the heart, and readers will come.

Well, first, I'm really not sure what people mean when they say the story is "true" or "honest" - unless they mean they're not trying to fool readers or writing something only for the market/money/fame/whatever. And I don't think "true" or "honest" is different for those writers who consider their audience from those who don't.

And I don't recall ever saying write to "please" readers. I have said a writer needs to consider the reader, the audience, in order to communicate more effectively than if they're just writing for themselves.

There seems to be this idea that one cannot write for themselves and for readers at the same time. I don't understand this. Why is it either/or?
 

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There's always a tension between artists and the demands of the market. I know in the US everyone reads novels in High School, and there's no talk of "genre" or "market" -- the novel is presented as a work of art crafted by an author who also had a very real life of his or her own. This is the original conception of the novel; it's an exploration of the self, so of course a writer would write more for him or herself than the audience. Every story is a reflection of the author. That said, there are also times in history where money is more important than people, and other times when people start to matter more (sad, but true...it's that old story of capitalism and its discontents). The world is definitely in a period when numerical calculations matter more than real people, and a large part of that has to do with the consumer culture that has spread all around the world. Consumers are VERY particular about what they like and don't like; the non-producers have become very entitled. And since people matter less, a novel that reminds us of our humanity through an exploration of the author's selfhood is valued less, so there are these proliferations of genres that tell the same stories over and over so the consumer-reader can feel like the author is speaking directly to his or her emotional/psychic/spiritual needs. Genre is a kind of manufactured identity; more often than not, people develop a liking to these kinds of books written for a market because of advertising. They are selves in themselves. But they're not explorations of the self. I think this development is tyrannical, and I'm glad that there's an author out there who still understands the original point of writing novels.
 

tko

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right and wrong

Well, I think we're all writing for an audience. I can't really read my own work objectively any more. I know what's going to happen. No surprises. I understand the characters - perhaps better than what I've written. I don't think most of us sit down and read our just finished novel over and over for the pleasure of it. We check grammar, pacing, characters, dialog, and plot. Otherwise why would you would use betas and proof readers?

It's not like building a house where you can enjoy your final product over and over.

But I understand what everyone is saying. You're doing the best possible damn job for an audience of readers who are just like you.
 

Coco82

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I think it's a balance. I agree w/the OP's quote quite a bit, my current WIP is a story that needed to be told. It started as a smal idea and has been built into a pretty large story. However I try at the same time to make its themes as accessible to everyone as possible and the characters who you're supposed to like ones any reader would.
 

Al Stevens

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The market I write for is pushing up daisies. If I had to write for today's market, I'd make an appointment with Dr. Kevorkian. Oops, too late.

But why write anything? Because there are vague, unrealized stories in there. I enjoy fleshing them out. I want to know how they end.

Every now and then somebody buys one. That's nice.

The other day a lady said to me, "I bought one of your e-books." I said, "So you're the one."
 
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Jamesaritchie

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I make the assumption that I am an average reader. If I like something, I believe most readers out there will like it, as well. This is how writing works. I've never known a successful writer who write things that did not please him first. Why would anyone want to spend his life writing things other people like, but that he doesn't?

Assuming the writer can get a reasonably well-told tale down, shared taste with the general readership is what makes that story successful. Lack of shared taste is why writers are not successful. You can't fake it, either.

I write stories I'd want to read if someone else wrote them. Trying to write for others is a sure way to please no one, including yourself. Trying to write for the market is even less likely to please anyone.

And I am not a masochist. If I didn't enjoy the process of writing, I'd find some other way to spend my time. life is too short to spend any of it doing something you don't enjoy.
 

aruna

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An explanattion: when I say I don't like writing: it's not quite true.It's just that it's so exhausting. I get up every single day at 5.15 just to write. I stop at 7 am to get ready for work. I come home from work, have a meal, and then I'm off to visit disabled hubby in care home. Then I hang out on AW etc.

I just wish that story could somehow get itself out without my having to get up at 5.15 every day. I long for a sleep-in -- till 6 at least!
 

NeuroFizz

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First of all, we are all different in our writing practices and our approaches to our stories, so there will be some writers for whom the ego strokes from writing will outbalance the concern for The Reader, and the reverse, and there will be those who will approach their writing with an eye toward the market (which is very different from The Reader in my thinking, and as stated by several others upstream). And who is to say that one approach will produce superior stories, or deeper stories, or more artsy stories, or more meaningful stories? This whole business is so subjective, there is room for all kinds of approaches as along as the result is the same--the writer produces a damn good story that engages The Reader.

I've said many times here at AW that it's all about the story and it's all about the reader (this is a personal writing philosophy). By that last part, I meant The Reader, not the market. Here's what I mean. When I sit down to write a scene, I think about how I want that scene to contribute to the story, but when it comes to writing, I open my toolbox of writing techniques to nudge The Reader through that scene while trying my best to anticipate how this technique or that technique might tweak The Reader's emotions or reactions to lead The Reader in my general direction, without hooking a ring through his/her nose and pulling him/her along. This is not thinking about market. This is giving me a solid reason to pull the various tools out of my toolbox. That reason is never to thrill myself. The self-thrill comes when I finish a scene or story and decide that I have been successful in doing what I wanted to do for and to The Reader to enhance how that reader wanders through the story (hopefully with a desire to keep turning the pages). When I throw a twist in a story, I don't do it so I can brag about how I tricked The Reader, I do it with the hope The Reader will slap his/her forehead and say, "I should have seen that coming." If that happens, then my ego enters to tell me I did a good job of using my personal toolbox to create a highly desired reaction in The Reader (as a reader, I love when I have this type of reaction from other authors).

I am proud of my writing accomplishments, as we all should be. So there is a bit of writing for myself in that, but that's in the aftermath, not in the motivation of figuring out how to construct and write scenes and stories. That construction is done with The Reader in mind. And for me, it IS all about the story, and it IS all about The Reader.

The market? We all hope to find a successful niche, but I personally don't let that shape the actual crafting of the story. But likely there are writers who do target the market from the very start through the full crafting of scenes and the story, who are finding success in writing those damn good stories. Good for them. Good for all of us who may have very different approaches to story selection and story construction as long as we all do one thing well--write that damn good story. And to me, that is a story that engages and thrills The Reader. After that, we all hope we can thrill many readers and establish our market niche.
 
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blacbird

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the writer produces a damn good story that engages The Reader.

. . . .

write that damn good story. And to me, that is a story that engages and thrills The Reader.

Who is this "Reader" of whom you speak? I am unfamiliar with this person. Where does he or she live? Do you have an e-mail address for this person?

caw
 

NeuroFizz

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It is a near deity in my mind, formed by what I like to read, by what I've read that has found commercial or other forms of success, and what I've read that uses clever writing techniques to bring a scene to life for me or nudge me in specific directions in a story. It is a target without a name or face, so it is not a construct with an X-grade of education, or a specific gender or socioeconomic lifestyle. There will be no graph to plot out this Reader's life-details, and there will be no address or e-mail. This hard data all gets back to market analysis, which is not what I do. You will not be able to get your hands on my Reader because he/she is specific to my mind. And he/she has evolved as I've learned more about the craft of writing. Y'all can form your own Reader as your personal challenge--to satisfy through your writing.

I just changed the pacing in the early part of one of my WIP scenes. Why? To put The Reader a little more on edge for what was coming next. Will it do that for every reader who sees that scene? Undoubtedly not. But if my instincts are good about my Reader, it will have an impact on a significant number of readers of that scene. And if that turns out to be true, my use of that Reader-without-a-name-or-face will have served me well.
 
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NeuroFizz

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Because The Reader is a moving target (different for different stories), angling is a good way to think about it. But I have some experience that tells me where to throw the line, what bait to use, and how to make it move to attract that Reader. I suspect I fail in some scenes, but that all feeds back into the experience creel. And some literary techniques ARE downright underhanded.
 
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Rhoda Nightingale

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Here's the way I see it: I write for myself first and the audience second. I have to love it. If I don't love it, no one else will see it. I'd love for other people to love it. But if I don't, I'm not interested in showing it to anyone else.

Also, I write as a reader. I'm a panster, so I almost never know where the story's going--I write to see what happens next. Then when I get there, I go back and edit and revise and make it as close to perfect as possible. That's the work and dealing with a potential audience/market part. The other part? That's just fun.
 

John342

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I see posts like these here quite often and I have only been here a couple months! I rarely feel like contributing to them because, and I am sorry to be a jerk, but they are exercises in the obvious. EVERYONE here has a motivation to write, and they are not all the same. Its like going to a dog owner site and asking "Do you ever wonder why you like dogs?"

I know why I write... Its therapy.
 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/05/will-self-umbrella-booker-interview



And, bizarrely, I think I agree with him.

I believe, that thinking too much about market can be toxic to a writer. I never really think beyond readers than: 'if I were to pick up this book in Waterstone's, would I pay full price?,' and 'is this entertaining me?'

Thoughts?

I wonder how many really write for the reader.
If I was the reader, I'd read what I wrote so why wouldn't someone else?
Right?
If I like it, that is what matters to me.
I would be horrified to have a editor tell me to cut my favorite sentence or chapters.
 
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