How harsh do you prefer your beta readers to be?

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NeuroFizz

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The following is nothing new.

The best strategy for investigating a writer-beta reader relationship is to have the beta read and crit a small portion of the project--maybe the first chapter. The two should then discuss the critique. At that time, the writer will get an idea of the review methodology of the beta, and the beta will get an idea of the attitude of the writer to the kinds of crits forwarded--as a compatibility check. If either feels any tension, or any doubt about the usefullness of the relationship, they can part ways before the beta invests a huge amount of his/her time on the full project. This kind of blind date will reveal issues on both sides of the collaboration.

This is one function that can be served by the SYW forum here at AW. I suspect some members have found good betas there. However, writers should realize if someone volunteers to provide a crit in SYW, it doesn't mean that person is also volunteering to be a beta on a longer project.

If the two engage in a trial crit and it doesn't work out, the appropriate response of the writer should be to thank the critter for donating his/her time. End of interaction.
 

Mutive

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Well, of course you want them to expand on why it sucks, but the main point is that you want to know it sucks. You want to know it before you waste further time on a project that is simply not very good. You want to know how to fix it, if you can fix it at all, and you (or at least I) don't want to waste time with people treading lightly or blowing smoke.

Oh, definitely. The point is that there is a line between my (and probalby most people's) raw uncensored thoughts and what I type out for a beta. Sometimes I see really harsh critters defend themselves with, "I was giving my honest opinion! That's what a critique is about!" And while that's somewhat true, a critique really isn't about uncensored opinions. It's about telling the person what they need to hear to make the story better.

So while I tend to side with critiquers (as OMG are there a lot of delicate snowflakes out there), I have seen a few where I go, "You know...you're not really giving the author to anything to work with. Which does make you a jerk."
 

Mutive

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Oh, definitely.

I think we all want to get to the point where we are confident in our stories and have our own strong vision; I know that's my goal. It's unfortunate that when you're at the start of your 'craft journey' and you (general you) need critiques and feedback the most, that's also when you're most unable to discern whether a critique is right for your story. But maybe it's all part of the journey.

Yeah, it is all part of the journey. And any writer who wants to get much of anywhere is going to have to learn to ignore the people who cite grammatical rules that are incorrect and ignore people who are obnoxious as well as the fluff bunnies. But with that said, when I beta, I try to give advice that will be helpful for the writer. Which means avoiding the impression that I hate their story, them personally, think they're stupid, etc. (Even if it might be true in some very rare cases.)
 

CJ.Wolfe

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Does anyone else ever feel nervous critiquing a friends work? I was asked by a close friend to critique something of hers, and I wanted to be honest and firm, but not upset her. I asked her what kind of critique she wanted and if she wanted me to be harsh, because it's the first real line-by-line I've done. In the end I just went for it. But it was really hard because the minute I looked at it I knew she was at a very basic stage in her writing. I'm still somewhat of an ameture (hopefully working my way up by now) but she's not even there yet, and I found it really hard to critique because I didn't want to tell her it was bad, even though in some parts it rather was.
So I told her where she went wrong, and then at the end did a sum up and told her where her strong and weak points were. Havent heard back from her yet which worries me, but I guess I'm just wondering if you beta something that isn't on par with your own work, do you find it difficult?
 

Pinguicha

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Well, I don't find it hard to critique a friend's work because they know how I can be. I always warn them upfront and apologize if I come across as mean -- all I want is their novel to be the best it can be and sometimes, I can come across as harsh. But they know it's all well-intentioned and I never had issues with them holding a grudge against me for being too honest.
 
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