The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

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MacAllister

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...when it gets really awful, remind yourself that they aren't supervillains. They're just plain, old-fashioned crooks. And the way to catch crooks is to painstakingly gather evidence and document wrongdoing.
 

mdin

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Cycles and Iceland

I just read this thread on the PA bb, and I realized the board has officially cycled again. I look at the PA board more often than I really should, and I don't recognize a single person. This happens quite a bit, but there's a big difference this time. Before, the cycles always happened immediately after the royalty period. We had one just two and a half months ago. Now these shifts are coming more rapidly.

***

On another note, I was wondering if anyone thought about informing members of the Icelandic government about PA's issues here in the US. They're big fans of scandal over there (I'm a big fan of Iceland, in case you haven't figured that out yet. I will go there one day), and since the government is quite a bit smaller than it is here, and they may be interested.

Iceland's Minister of Commerce's website is here:
http://eng.idnadarraduneyti.is/minister/about-the-minister

She speaks English, so if any of you have well-thought-out letters, you may consider sending her one, too.

If you want to poke around the official website, it's here: http://government.is
 

James D. Macdonald

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Oooh!

I feel so blessed! I guess saying my prayers every night and going to church on Sunday has paid off big time.

Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted in the ABC-TV news story on PublishAmerica, and who I handily demolished last time he cropped up, has decided to speak again!

Denny's noticed Atlanta Nights.

I feel a line-by-line coming on, but it'll have to wait a bit. I have a pretty full day planned and playing with this goofball isn't my highest priority.
 

Diana Hignutt

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Greetings to the New Posters!

Greetings to all the new folks! Welcome! You have found the right place to learn the truth about publishing. The people here, called bashers by the misinformed, are among the nicest, most caring people I have ever encountered. Many are professional authors (meaning that they make their living by writing books), others are legitimately published authors (who still have to work other jobs), others are ex-PA authors, some are authors who want to be published, and others are just good people who hate to see evil wrought on the innocent. I have been where you are now. There is hope after PA. Know that. And know that you have found the right place. That, in itself, is a start.


Diana Hignutt
Author of Empress of Clouds (Behler), a 2004 ForeWord Magazine Book of the Year Finalist for Science Fiction and a 2005 Spectrum Award Nominee.
 

Ken Schneider

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James D. Macdonald said:
Oooh! Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted.....



The last line of this story rings true.

" Ultimately, PublishAmerica will make it possible for you to do something that every one of your friends and family would give their eye-teeth for -- a book with your name on the cover."

Yes, your family would give their eye teeth to buy their loved ones book. Mom, Dad, Aunty and the rest will fork over twenty bucks for your book,hence the price.

No one would have to, (give any teeth up) Everyone can get in to see the wizard, in POZ.
 

astonwest

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Susan Gable

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astonwest said:
Holy moly! He spent between $10,000 and $15,000 publishing his book with PA?
:faint:

Yes, he said that. But...I thought it didn't cost anything to get your book published with PA?

What I want to know is how much of that money he recouped in royalties. Can I see a show of hands of people who think he made that money back?

<scanning crowd>

Anyone? Anyone???

Nope, me either.

Hey, if the Tour Bus is in Ohio, you all need to stop over here in Erie and have a visit. I'll bake some brownies, and we can wash them down with my special Mud Slides.

Susan G.
 

MartyKay

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eighter said:
Yes they do. Here's a sample.

Mine. Hardly anyone used the old highway.
Hers. Hardly, anyone used the old highway.

Oh. Oh my.

eighter said:
Then I received an e mail saying I was afraid to use and didn't know how to use commas but not to worry. "We all needs help sometimes".

Oh my god. :Wha:

eighter said:
After I paid an editor to make the corrections, PA refused to make them because there were too many. My friend had to do the entire thing over. Then PA sent the wrong set of proofs to the printer.
Bet you a dollar?

"Proofs"?? Weird term to use with POD technology, isn't it? I knew a company that did short run printing, they took the floppy disk with the work on it and dropped it into their system, and out came the printing. You send the "wrong set", well.. given that a whole FIVE copies are printed, how hard is it to send the RIGHT files and say "oops, sorry about that"... oh.. hang on, I thought I was talking about a company that was ethical. Sorry about that...

Plus... I've read stories of mistakes made during print runs for real publishers, where they realise a big error and PULP THE LOT... (Or, wasn't it "Nine Princes in Amber" that got pulped by mistake??)
 

Ed Williams

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As I sally forth over into...

....that Great and Mighty Land known as Poz, we find the following:

I have a friend here on the boards who has found a very nice way of getting his books on the shelves.
He had friends to go into the stores and ask for the book. After so many requests for the book the stores began to carry them theirselves.
While we're at it, let's also believe in the Easter Bunny, the Loch Ness Monster, and Dorothy Deering. This whole PA thing of allowing their authors to come up with these "dead before they get out of the gate" marketing schemes is really depressing.

In the category of "how sad," we find this:

I just called my order in on Wednesday. The call took about three minutes. I gave her my name, the title of the book and my credit card number. Got a confirmation number which they also emailed and I was done.

Perhaps it's something PA should think about. At least setting up a toll free number for us to call.
And in the category of "something even sadder," we find this:

As for buying our own books, it is mostly to get them out into the public eye. After that happens you won't have to buy any more books.
Re Denny Hatch, I read his latest, and I will leave it to Uncle Jim to perform the complete dissection, but I will offer up this. Mr. Hatch:

1) A lot of us who complain about PA's business practices have never published one book with them and never intend to do so, we just don't like seeing fellow writers being taken to the cleaners by a notorious vanity POD outfit. 2) Reading the following part of your little dissertation tells me all I need to know:

Would I publish with PublishAmerica again? Maybe yes, maybe no. Right now I have a completed novel in the computer ready to go. But I also am running a business and have a bunch of clients that require handholding and who enable me to pay my bills. I do not have time to promote a book. Maybe when I retire and have some time I will self-publish or give it over to PublishAmerica (if they will have it). But not now.

Ultimately, PublishAmerica will make it possible for you to do something that every one of your friends and family would give their eye-teeth for -- a book with your name on the cover
Ummm, this is like saying that if all of your family and friends want a woman that the local hooker is available at reasonable rates. Big accomplishment....

Finally, Nancy love, when I nickname you something consider it a very good thing. "Naughty Nancy" has that certain sizzle to it, and god do I love sizzle! Worry if I nickname you "Wax Sandwich Nance," or "Nod Off Nancy" or something like that. I think yer da mega, BTO caliber bomb!
 
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Sarashay

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Ultimately, PublishAmerica will make it possible for you to do something that every one of your friends and family would give their eye-teeth for -- a book with your name on the cover

I can't parse that sentence to save my life. You'll be able to do a book? Huh? To say nothing of the fact that your friends and family don't need to give their eyeteeth to get a book with their own names on the cover--they just need enough pages to resemble a manuscript that they can send to PA. Or maybe they meant that they'll have to give their eyeteeth for a book with your name on the cover, which is probably true, given the prices PA slaps on the books.
 

Jaws

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DaveKuzminski said:
Is it a civil matter entirely or can the writer rely upon the government for anything?
Sarcastically, the only thing one can ever rely upon the government to do is entrench civil servants and take care of major campaign financiers.

Note, though, that "civil" and "government" overlap considerably. Most securities actions, for example, are "civil" in nature, not criminal prosecutions&#151;regardless of the myths perpetuated by inaccurate media coverage. Similarly, a lot of outright fraud gets handled through the civil side. In exchange for not being able to get jail time, the government only has to prove by a preponderence of the evidence ("more probable than not"), not beyond a reasonable doubt. It's a tactical decision.

That said, I think you were really asking "Is there a government agency that will pay attention to these kinds of complaints?" Well, there are several that are supposed to; it's a question of priorities and persuasiveness as much as anything else. What you're really looking for are agencies that concern themselves with "unfair trade practices." In the US government, that is primarily (but not exclusively) the FTC. There is a part of the Maryland AG's office that is concerned with unfair trade practices, and that part is one of the targets of Phase Two. Here in Illinois&#151;which is the more typical instance&#151;it's divided by subject area, rather than an umbrella agency. For example, unfair trade practices in agriculture are handled through a two-person office in the Department of Agriculture.
 

ResearchGuy

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whitewolfzty said:
I It is amazing, finding so many with such hatred for one entity....
I believe that "contempt" and "righteous indignation" are more accurate terms than "hatred." And it is not an entity, as such, toward which the contempt and indignation are directed, but rather the principals (and for that matter, lack of principles) of the company.

--Ken
 

NancyMehl

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LOL!

Ed Williams said:
....Finally, Nancy love, when I nickname you something consider it a very good thing. "Naughty Nancy" has that certain sizzle to it, and god do I love sizzle! Worry if I nickname you "Wax Sandwich Nance," or "Nod Off Nancy" or something like that. I think yer da mega, BTO caliber bomb!

Ed,

Ya know what I love about you?

You make this 51 year old (almost 52 year old) "Wax Sandwich Nance" FEEL like a BTO caliber bomb - just like you do with everyone you come in contact with!

You're a true blue Southern gentleman with a heart of gold and a mouth full of BTO caliber charm.

No wonder we can't do without you here. You have the power to brighten the day. Quite a gift.

Never, never, NEVER go away again - ya hear????

Now, back to to PA......

Mr. WhiteWolfzty,

I know you said that you knew what you were getting into...but I have to ask you if you really did.

Did you know that you wouldn't be able to get your books into stores?

Did you know that PA had an absolutely horrible reputation in the industry? (I am a book reviewer. Trust me, I know what their rep is.)

Did you know their books were overpriced?

Did you know that most of their submissions weren't read?

Did you know that most of their books were not edited?

Did you know that many of their books were not publishable? Should never have been published?

Did you know that they were not really sending out press releases the way they claimed?

Did you know about the man they sent in person to threaten Kevin Yarborough? (sp?)

Did you know how they shut out their own authors from their message board when they asked questions about things they didn't want public?

Did you know the way they responded to their authors in e-mails when they asked questions? (The infamous "don't take that tone with us e-mails.)

Did you know about me? I sold over 1300 books that I know of. By their own admission - I sold "thousands" of books I was never paid for. They dropped me for lack of potential sales.

Ken - these people are snakes. Pure and simple. Their business model is to publish anyone. Overprice the books. Get the authors to buy their own books and sell them to friends and family. That's it. Pure and simple. They could care less about their authors.

Did you really know that?

I am really glad you're here. This is a tough process. It takes time. These people took your dreams. You probably wrote a terrific book. Unfortunately, the good writers get caught up with the writers who need some seasoning. Everyone gets hurt. That's why some of these people keep fighting.

Diana Hignutt doesn't need to be here. She's on her way. She will be quite successful in her genre. Trust me. She could blow this off and walk away in a minute - as could several other people here. But these "bashers" keep at it for people just like you. Because they really, really care. They don't want to see people like you chewed up and spit out.

Please keep coming here. I have a feeling that you're standing on the edge of "basherdom." When you see the damage that's been done to so many, you'll jump in with both feet.

Be careful, though. There's this whole echelon ladder thing. Dawno gets cranky if you try to push her off. <G>

Welcome.

Nancy
 

Gratian Gasparri

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Another Ottawa bookstore report

After the incident the other day with a PA author at my daughter's school fair, I decided to visit the Chapters at Rideau Center in Ottawa. This is the first bookstore I have seen in the Ottawa area that stocks a PA book. They stock only that of the local children's author who I met at the school fair. There were no other PA books in the store. Additionally, and I am not sure if I used their computer system correctly, but it appeared that there were no other PA books stocked in any Ottawa area Chapters (which is Canada's largest book chain) and possibly Coles (the second largest book chain in Canada, but owned by the same company as Chapters) as well. Secondly, if I used the computer system correctly, it appears that this particular PA book was only stocked in the Rideau center Chapters. Ottawa is Canada's capital as well as fourth largest city.
 

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James D. Macdonald said:
Denison "Denny" Hatch, who we last saw being quoted in the ABC-TV news story on PublishAmerica, and who I handily demolished last time he cropped up, has decided to speak again!
Smoley Hokes! A mystery solved! Denny is the one writing all those "tone" letters. One of his lines opines that everyone's "whining" about Publish Anything is "absolute nonsense." Does that have a familiar resonance, or what?

I especially love the part where he talks about AL and states the Publish Anything accepted it it in good faith. Good faith? So that's how publishers are suppsed to work these days? Gee, what happened to doing it the old fashioned way and actually reading a submission? I'd laugh myself silly but I'm afraid my bladder can't take the mirth. Anyone have a good fire sale on Depends?
 

ResearchGuy

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A real publisher's booklist on the Web

Random house's book browsing page, http://www.randomhouse.com/category/, offers an instructive contrast to PA's "new this week" page and lack of a catalog by author, title, and subject. For PA authors, or those considering PA, perhaps a comparative look will be instructive. (Is it not odd that PA books cannot be listed by subject, and that there is no comprehensive catalog by author, by title, and by subject? Does any established publisher lack such a catalog? What does this lack of a PA book catalog say? Why do new releases appear only for a week, and only in a long page of covers, not listed by author, by title, or by subject? Why is there no cumulative catalog in text form?)

Of similar interest, Simon and Schuster: http://www.simonsays.com/content/index.cfm?sid=33. S&S, by the way, has its own discussion boards: http://bbs.simonsays.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi. Those are open to everyone, not just S&S authors.

Also of interest, Baen, www.baen.com.

--Ken
 

Literary Lola

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Whew, I found the Depends...

...so I can continue laughing with ease. This comment from Denny nearly sent me into spasms.
"I bought 200 pre-publication copies to send to reviewers. PublishAmerica charged me close to their cost and put an ugly yellow triangle in the upper right corner of the cover that said: "FOR REVIEW ONLY. NOT FOR SALE."
Garsh, my publisher did all that for me. I didn't pay a dime. What's sad is I'm betting the poor guy sent them to all the big time reviewers. You know the ones I'm talking about...the ones who don't review POD's.

And those minxes at PA only charged him "close to their cost" for his review copies. Now, just what the h-e-double hockey sticks does that mean? Charging $20 for a book that they printed up for $5 is "close to their costs" depending on which side of the ledger sheet you’re standing. Unless Denny saw exactly what PA paid for them, ol' Lola be bettin' this was a major coup for the padding of Wee Willy Meiners, Clod-the-Hopper, and Moe’s Grand Cayman accounts.



I can see the conversation now. “Whee doggies, we got us a livewire, Larry! This dolt wants 200 review copies. Har har, we don’t do review copies.”



In all seriousness, thought, adding the “review only” to his cover won’t mean Jack. Reviewers look at the release date, which is normally five to six months down the road. POD’s don’t have a release date. They look for quality. PA doesn’t offer quality.



This guy spent 10 grand to “get his book out there”? Yikers, for that amount of buckaroos, I coulda visited the Threesome Gruesome’s bank account in the Grand Caymans. This is just blind love. He has shelled out a bucketload of $$ in the blind hope that he’ll become the next best thing since toilet paper and he’s written an article about the evils of those who hate PA. This isn’t a case of too much Koolaid. This was a brain transplant.
 

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I was thinking... or maybe not, that depends on your point of view...

My book (with PA) used a photgraph that was photoshopped. Now, my question is this. If they took it off of the web, according to the little bit of research that I did today, that would be a violation of the photographers copyright? According to copyright law, an image is considered copyrighted as soon as it is 'posted' online. Wonder if this could be a bargaining chip in regaining my rights? Or if the AG office would be interested in it, especially if I could find the original photo again? (I did once.)

I was luckier than most in my adventures with PA. I spent nothing, and did no promotion other than setting up a free web site, more for my own experience than anything. I still have my first royalty check, framed here next to my computer desk along with my royalty statement... 13 books... but the check is worth much more to me than the $18.19 cents that is the face value, lol. I plan on keeping it right where it is to inspire me as I work to get my writing accepted by a REAL publisher!

Bruce
 

B.L. Robinson

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Dolan, I went through the same thing as far as my book being 'available'. Bookstores ordering multiple copies would only recieve one. I suppose that was the final straw that pushed me over to the "dark side", as another ex-PA author just told me.


Bruce
 

B.L. Robinson

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No, Ann, I haven't changed the web site yet. I hadn't thought of it, to tell the truth! I am still lobbying PA for my rights back, but so far I have yet to get any sort of acknowledgment from them at all.


Bruce
 

lindylou45

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Dawno said:
I'm operating under the impression (delusion?) this might actually help in some small way.

You'll be surprised how much it will help, Dawno.


This isn't a shameless plug for my blog, btw; I just wanted to let you know that there's one more voice out there that's on your side.

Who knows, your "one more voice" may save many, many people from having to deal with what we've gone through. Thanks for all you're doing. With all of us working together like this we just might have them on the run! :scared: :gone:
 

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Question for Jaws

Jaws-

I don't have a PA contract, so I can't check on this question myself, but it is this: Are PA contracts assignable by the author? In other words, could a PA author transfer all their rights to someone else?
 
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