What is considered 'okay to good' sales for romance e-books?

I'm a midlister in what might be a niche market (m/m romance).

I'm happy if my books sell 5 000 copies in their lifetime. If I'd hit five digits in the first year, I'd be ecstatic. If a book only sold 500 copies I'd consider it a failure and be trying to figure out what went wrong.

"Good" is subjective. There is no real sensible answer. There are multiple data sets out there about what is average for each publisher and for some self-publishing venues. I think that is more useful information. e.g. Show me the money, EREC, Smashwords. One should also not neglect mention of epublishing with large presses. The norm for eHarlequin and Avon is not the same as for Ellora's Cave or new epublisher of the week.

I think the answer is up to you and your personal goals. What I may think is good for me might not be good enough for someone else. I would think, from a business standpoint, that if you can break even on the expenses spent on each book and then make enough to sustain your lifestyle as well as reinvest in your projects, then that's a pretty sweet deal. Again, what that looks like for one author versus another is not the same.

I don't really agree with that, veinglory. I mean, those sources are useful (and I appreciate all the hard work that goes into maintaining them!) but they're fairly limited, aren't they?

Like, EREC may or may not be focused on the 'erotic' side of things? (I've never been sure about that), and the numbers seem low compared to my sales. I know from seeing my rankings that I'm not a super-star, so I think my numbers are probably pretty standard for a midlister - in which case the EREC numbers are low. I'm not saying they're not an accurate reflection of the data you received, but self-reported data is always a bit dodgy, right?

And Show Me The Money is useful, but tends to hit the larger publishers only. Plus it was last updated in 2013.

I'm always happy to see more information on sales, from any source I can find it!

ETA: Lhowling - I think it's useful to have some idea of where you stand in the marketplace. We have to make a lot of decisions about how to publish our books, and it's useful to know how other people are doing in order to know whether to emulate them or avoid their practices.

My earnings are generally in line with Brenda Hiatt's Show Me the Money listing for my publisher, though I've exceeded the listed average earn out with a couple of my books within about the first year or so after publication. That equates to about 2,500 copies for each book during that time.

Pisco Sour said:

How do you know when you are a 'midlister'? Is this dependent on number of books released, number of books sold? I hear this term a lot and have always wondered. I know it's not 'best seller' which means you hit NYT lists and/or have sold gazillions of books, right? What constitutes a 'mislister' in e-book sales? Maybe that's a good way to understand what's considered good e-book sales--if you hit midlister status?

Click to expand...

I'm using the word pretty loosely, I guess. But I base it on watching my sales rankings at my publishers and at Amazon, mostly. When I have a new release it generally shows on the publisher's "Best Sellers" list for a couple weeks, but I rarely make it to number one (and that's just one publisher). At Amazon, I'll hit the genre top ten, maybe, but rarely number one, and I'll only be in the top ten for a day or two. The book generally stays in the top 100 for a couple weeks, but that's all.

I also have a fair idea of my reputation in the genre - I usually get good reviews, but I'm rarely on any posted lists of 'must read' authors. etc.

My first book was back when m/m was much smaller. So the absolute sales for that book weren't all that high (it has yet to reach 10K copies sold), but in that smaller market it made a pretty big splash. Genre #1 at Amazon, on and off for weeks, #1 at the publisher for weeks and top 10 at the publisher for a few months, etc. If later books had hit those peaks, I'd say I was more than a midlister. But they didn't, despite often selling more copies overall (b/c the market was growing, so in comparative terms my books weren't selling as well).

ETA: I guess I also base it on having no trouble selling my books to publishers. It's been a couple years since I got a rejection, I think, and I've never had a book I couldn't sell ANYWHERE, just sometimes a book that I couldn't sell to Samhain.

Pisco Sour said:

How do you know when you are a 'midlister'? Is this dependent on number of books released, number of books sold? I hear this term a lot and have always wondered. I know it's not 'best seller' which means you hit NYT lists and/or have sold gazillions of books, right? What constitutes a 'mislister' in e-book sales? Maybe that's a good way to understand what's considered good e-book sales--if you hit midlister status?

Click to expand...

A midlist book has nothing in particular to do with NYT. It has to do with the way in which the publisher lists the book in their sales promo. "Frontlist" are the major bestsellers that the publisher considers its lead titles for a particular season---the ones it pushes to booksellers with the major promo discounts. Midlist is pretty much everything else. There isn't really anything beneath midlist, so the sales figures can be anywhere from 100 copies to 100,000 copies in a royalty period.

Midlist can change to Frontlist from period to period and back again due to sales (after returns are figured in).

For example, I'm considered "high midlist" in that sales for most all of my titles are in the mid-five figures. Sylvia Day was midlist until her Crossfire series became a hit and she was bumped up to Frontlist due to increased sales.

Does that make sense?

As to average sales for ebook romance, I'd say from talking to friends that non-erotica subgenres are in the 5,000-10,000 range over the course of a year. Not lifetime of the book. That's impossible to judge outside of print titles.

Cathy C said:

As to average sales for ebook romance, I'd say from talking to friends that non-erotica subgenres are in the 5,000-10,000 range over the course of a year. Not lifetime of the book. That's impossible to judge outside of print titles.

Click to expand...

Just wondering, Cathy C., do you mean here that erotica would typically sell less than 5,000 over the first year? Do you mean erotica from digital-first presses like Loose Id, etc?

Thanks. This is a really interesting thread.

Captcha said:

ETA: Lhowling - I think it's useful to have some idea of where you stand in the marketplace. We have to make a lot of decisions about how to publish our books, and it's useful to know how other people are doing in order to know whether to emulate them or avoid their practices.

Click to expand...

I completely agree! I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't worth knowing where you stand in the marketplace. It's good business to know where you are. I was talking more specifically about sales versus trends or sizing up other competitors. I just meant that generally speaking we all have different goals, so what it means to be in a certain standing within the marketplace may mean something different for each of us... if that makes sense

What is better, limited data (a few hundred), anecdotal data (a few only), or no data at all? EREC data is posted when there is enough data to show a central tendency. It's main limitation is currently that it is dated.

My main point was that describing what is, is better than trying to guess what an authors thinks is "good". There are multiple data sets you can consult to arrive at a reasonable estimate for different types of publishing.

EREC was started back in the day because most beginning authors were *wildly* over-estimating their likely sales.

veinglory said:

What is better, limited data (a few hundred), anecdotal data (a few only), or no data at all? EREC data is posted when there is enough data to show a central tendency. It's main limitation is currently that it is dated.

My main point was that describing what is, is better than trying to guess what an authors thinks is "good". There are multiple data sets you can consult to arrive at a reasonable estimate for different types of publishing.

EREC was started back in the day because most beginning authors were *wildly* over-estimating their likely sales.

Click to expand...

Is it OK to put a link to EREC here?
.

I apologize if this is derailing, but anyone have any idea why Carina sells so many more books than Samhain over the course of a year, according to the EREC data? Samhain does a lot more sales in the first month but then drops off precipitously--why would that be?

Also, is anyone else wondering which publisher, if any, is going to fill the void left by the implosion of Ellora's Cave?

lindyhop said:

I apologize if this is derailing, but anyone have any idea why Carina sells so many more books than Samhain over the course of a year, according to the EREC data? Samhain does a lot more sales in the first month but then drops off precipitously--why would that be?

Also, is anyone else wondering which publisher, if any, is going to fill the void left by the implosion of Ellora's Cave?

Click to expand...

I've honestly never found my sales to be at all consistent with what's reported at EREC. I think it's a valuable site in terms of, as veinglory said, setting rough sales expectations (like, don't expect to sell 20K copies of most books) but the smaller details have never been consistent with my experience at publishers.

(I don't mean to be critical of the site and certainly appreciate the effort that's gone into it. I'm sure the numbers are an accurate reflection of the data that's been reported. And it's completely possible that I'M the anomaly.)

But in terms of who's going to replace EC? In terms of my own sales numbers and my sense of the relative reputations of different publishers, Samhain is king of the castle, and has been for several years. (Now, my stuff tends to not be that erotic, and is mostly m/m, so maybe I'm a better match for a house that seems to be a bit less focused on high-heat? Not sure.)

Pisco Sour said:

So, I did the talk last night (Monday) and I think I blew a lot of people's dreams into the galaxy! I was positive, but I hope realistic. Most people seemed to think romance e-publishers would be some sort of cash-cow, get rich quick avenue to writer stardom. Some even seemed, dare I say, suspicious of my experience and info. *shrugs* Anyhoo, I spread the word re AW and advised all to join and get informed.

Thank you all, for helping me out on this one.

Click to expand...

Sadly, that's what a lot of aspiring writers think about the romance industry as a whole---a get rich quick scheme.

But I'm glad you took the time to talk to them. It's always better when people walk into writing with open eyes. There are less disappointments that way and welcome surprise for the moments when things go brilliantly.

Any time you can counter misinformation with reality, is a win.

Congrats! A paid speaker - fancy!!!