Beware of teens selling magazines door to door!

Actually, jfreedan, some of the people most likely to fall into a cult or cult-like organization are the ones who are intelligent and think, "That could never happen to me." They also tend to be the ones who have a harder time breaking free.

You do yourself a disservice to think it can never happen to you. As long as you think it could potentially happen to you, you're much more likely to be on your guard against it.

And remember, an eighteen-year-old may have eighteen years on this planet, but for the vast majority of them, they were kids. In fact, they may never have been on their own before or had the opportunity to learn about the world around them.

What a blessed relief to know that this could never happen to jfreedan. That was my main concern, but now I can relax. The world is okay! As jf patiently explains, if he (or she) can see through it, any fool can.

DeadlyAccurate said:

Actually, jfreedan, some of the people most likely to fall into a cult or cult-like organization are the ones who are intelligent and think, "That could never happen to me." They also tend to be the ones who have a harder time breaking free.

You do yourself a disservice to think it can never happen to you. As long as you think it could potentially happen to you, you're much more likely to be on your guard against it.

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You don't seem to get it.

It's not that I think it "could never happen to me, just because I say so."

It's because I know when something seems too good to be true, it almost always is. It's a very old proverb, everyone here knows it, it doesn't matter where you grew up, there's a version in every language.

When I encounter something that seems too good to be true, I either ignore it on the spot or I investigate it until I have a firm grasp of it so I can make a good judgment.

You are trying to convince me that not everyone is capable of holding back their excitement and carefully evaluating the situation they are in? Sorry, I don't buy into that, because if that was true then that would mean these people are destined to die at a very early age.

If I'm out looking for a job and I see an ad that says "Make <enter any absurd amount of money here> a week from your home! Call to get free package!" I don't fall for it because I know it's a scam, irregardless of how tempting it is to make thousands of dollars working at home. I look at the situation using very simple logic anyone is capable of:

1) If they are paying people thousands of dolllars a month, then why are they advertising on construction paper in laundry mats and telephone poles? These aren't typical places for reputable companies to hire employees.

2) Logically, they probably aren't paying people anything. It's more logical that they are selling people little "kits" to use, like a franchiser would. It is therefore a scam.

Here's another scam I avoided a couple weeks ago,

I have a couple arcade machines I put on craigslist to sell. I got a lot of emails, some of them bogus. One of these bogus mails was a guy claiming he represented some millionaire who was trying to find games for his private collection and would pay thousands for my machines-- much more than I was asking in my ad.

He said all he needed to know was where to send the check and what my address was so he could send someone to go pick the machines up.

This was obviously a scam. Being paid thousands of dollars for something I only wanted about 500 for is tempting, but I'm not going to fall for it because simple everyman evaluation tells me it is bogus:

1) Why would he offer to pay thousands of dollars more than my asking price? People usually try to get the price lower, not higher, and millionaires are no different.

2) If I was a millionaire, I wouldn't be buying non-working arcade machines from the other side of the country.

3) I don't take checks from random people. I only take cash. Checks bounce and checks can be stolen.

So I avoided that scam by using a little bit of logic anyone is capable of, or should be capable of. I can't imagine a person will survive in this world very long if they aren't capable of realizing there is millions of people out there who want to do them harm.

And remember, an eighteen-year-old may have eighteen years on this planet, but for the vast majority of them, they were kids. In fact, they may never have been on their own before or had the opportunity to learn about the world around them.

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Again, human beings do not live in a vacuum. Unless the person in question was chaperoned by their parent holding their hand every second of their day, NO, they should have enough experience in life to avoid putting themselves into obviously bad situations. We are bombarded with media constantly, be it from parents, friends, family, TV, books, the internet or even videogames. A lot of this media is the exchange of "horror stories" of all kinds of bad things which have happened to other people. These stories are not just entertainment and gossip, they are teaching you to be weary of such things happening to you in the future.

A stranger offering you candy is an obviously bad situation.
A stranger wanting you to fly around the country to work a low-paying job is an obviously bad situation.

Whether they think before they act is the real question, and that unfortunately has nothing to do with being "inexperience", and everything about making the conscious decision to ignore your better judgment and "go for it" because you're too focused on immediant gratification.

Again, there is a ridiculous amount of people who smoke despite being told again and again that smoking WILL give them cancer. They ignore the warnings because they are more interested in the immediant gratification smoking gives (which is almost always about fitting in with a group).

And I would not be surprised in the slightest bit if there is a pattern of behavior there, and smoking is probably not the only obviously stupid activity they engage themselves in. I'm not going to pat someone on the back and comfort them if they intentionally do stupid things and get hurt. I'm not going to kick them when they are down either, but I'm certaintly going to tell them to stop doing stupid things, because that is what they need to hear.

Even though my words are likely falling on deaf ears.

You're still confusing "being scammed" with "being sucked into a cult". And I'm not sure how cigarette smoking figures into this at all.

I think you've made your particular views on this subject very clear, though. Good for you.

1) Why would he offer to pay thousands of dollars more than my asking price? People usually try to get the price lower, not higher, and millionaires are no different.

2) If I was a millionaire, I wouldn't be buying non-working arcade machines from the other side of the country.

3) I don't take checks from random people. I only take cash. Checks bounce and checks can be stolen.

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The way that scam usually works is that he writes you a check for X amount over what you ask for and then has you send him the difference, either in cash or a money order. His check bounces, and you're out the amount you gave him.

A cult is a type of scam.

I'm Agnostic, so if I continue this discussion I'm likely going to begin truly offending people with an explanation of why I believe a cult is a scam, and that isn't really what I want to do.

My point was that I do not believe there is epidemic of door-to-door salesman kidnapping and raping children in the US, the same way I dismiss the idea violent videogames brainwashes a person to be an unremorseful, psychopathic individual.

I do believe there are criminals out there preying on gullible people. I do believe that competant scam artists have a science they tend to follow, choose their marks well, and that is why they are successful. I do believe the best way to avoid being scammed is to be aware of your surroundings.

And I do believe there is people in this world who repeatedly ignore their better judgment for very poor reasons. People who smoke tobacco (or worse) are a primary example of what I'm talking about. That is why I raised the issue, even though I'm sure I've offended some people, but the sad reality is smoking is an action that has absolutely no positive benefit whatsoever for a person, yet legions engage in the activity fully knowing it will give them a very painful type of cancer someday.

If people wish to do something they know they shouldn't be doing, I'm not going to feel sorry for them. My sorrow is for innocent people who tried to avoid trouble, not those who go completely out of their way to become a victim.

jfreedan said:

My point was that I do not believe there is epidemic of door-to-door salesman kidnapping and raping children in the US, the same way I dismiss the idea violent videogames brainwashes a person to be an unremorseful, psychopathic individual.

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And your evidence for this is what? That it couldn't happen to you so it must be the fault of the victims? Even if they're vulnerable teenagers?

Do you HAVE a teenager? I had one and I can tell you that my sensible daughter went insane when she turned 15 and didn't come out of it until she was 18. Teenagers DO NOT think the way adults do and can be easily manipulated. I've seen it. I know.

If you're going to be making sweeping statements, you ought to have better evidence than: "door-to-door scams don't exist because video games don't cause psychopathic behavior."

I repeat - we had this problem *in my neighborhood* and it was *me* who called the cops.

The kids - they looked to be about 15 years old - were *tied up* in the van - 4 of them. Two were on my street, going door to door selling magazines with the "trip to Paris" as their spiel.

There was another van in the neighborhood next to ours. We're not an affluent neighborhood, and have a high percentage of immigrant families who live here, but there's usually someone home in most houses all day.

The tied-up children said they had been molested. All the kids claimed not to have eaten all day (it was about 3pm) One boy said he lived "back east" and that they all slept in the van at night.

The police took a statement from me. The children seemed desperate & dazed.

Children do not have the capability to make sound judgements - these children were runaways who had been preyed upon. They did not deserve what happened to them and they did not have the judgement/ability to get out of the situation.

PS - I too have been in the Army - 22+ years. I like to think I could avoid a situation like this one, but frankly back when I joined the Army it was at a time when I needed a job and the means to an education and it sounded good to me. It was a real learning experience.

I had a similar experience. The young, wide eyed kid was very complimentary and laughing--until I told her there was no way I was spending $70. on a magazine subscription. She then turned into this viscious, insulting animal. She caught me and my husband off guard--we were outside BBQing.

I don't remember what organization it was, but it had to do with points for a scholarship or something like that.

If you need a magazine subscription, I'd suggest EBAY. You can always get very cheap subscriptions there. For example, I bought a 1 year subscription to the econonmist, a weekly magazine from England that usually costs 117 per year, for thirty some-odd. I got a subscription to Men's Health, one year for 1.99. Just check to make sure there is free delivery so you know the price you are bidding is all that you will pay.

no...i dont think we have this problem in wales.
we do, however, have gypsies and pikies coming door-to-door attempting to repair your roof and such. you know all they're doing is climbing up there and braking a few panels. they then use your neighbours panels and continue so along the street. i had a damned pikie once trying to tell me my front door was broken. "practically hanging of its hinges," he said. that was over six months ago and my door still opens and closes as it should.
i have never been one for door-to-door, it's like those bloody encyclopedia salesmen, or double glazing. i just can't be doing with it. mostly i knock on the window and shake my head as they come up the path.
the jahova's witnesses aren't all too bad, unless they're trying to save my eternal soul again. i usualy open the door to these folks and can have many a satirical laugh at their banter. last time was to hand me a leaflet for a great blessing of the liberty stadium here in swansea. it was to be a mass get together of jw's from all over the world to bless the flock of god. i'll tell you, i had a bloody good laugh internally at this. but as i said, i usually don't bother.