The Definitive Lay-or-Lie Thread

dantefrizzoli

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I absolutely dread trying to figure out which one to use. This guide made it just a little bit easier for me to remember which version to use and when.
 

TheThingsSheWrote

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This finally put to rest my insecurities when using these. I always sort of vaguely knew when to use which, but seeing as English isn't my native tongue, always doubted myself anyways. Thank you!
 

Jinnambex

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Whenever I use lay and lie, I usually go and check online if I am using it correctly. Its one of those words that we now curse our ancestors for creating.
 

blacbird

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This really isn't as big a problem as a lot of people make it out to be. If confused, just consult a decent grammar site, of which the Purdue OWL is the best, IMO. Bookmark it, and consult as necessary. This is no lie.

caw
 

M.S. Wiggins

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Below is one of those grey areas (grey for me anyway) where and when I’ll get squirmy on the lay/lie conundrum. This story is in past-tense, as the verbs clearly anchor it there:

Lieutenant Finley drew his weapon and searched the area surrounding the house. Finding nothing and no one outside, he cracked the door open and stepped into the house, ready to fire should ambush lay in wait. A short while later, he exited and gave General Raynor the all-clear.

However, I question the use of ‘lay in wait’ given: Finley’s perspective, and the potential possibilities of it all (the ‘maybe’ ongoing act of ‘maybe’ ambushers). So it’s like a ‘currently’ present potential threat, but in a past-tense anchored situation.

*I readily admit that I overthink the small things, and underthink the big ones, and so I apologize if I’m coming across as an ignorant arse.*
 

Fallen

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Below is one of those grey areas (grey for me anyway) where and when I’ll get squirmy on the lay/lie conundrum. This story is in past-tense, as the verbs clearly anchor it there:

Lieutenant Finley drew his weapon and searched the area surrounding the house. Finding nothing and no one outside, he cracked the door open and stepped into the house, ready to fire should ambush lay in wait. A short while later, he exited and gave General Raynor the all-clear.

However, I question the use of ‘lay in wait’ given: Finley’s perspective, and the potential possibilities of it all (the ‘maybe’ ongoing act of ‘maybe’ ambushers). So it’s like a ‘currently’ present potential threat, but in a past-tense anchored situation.

*I readily admit that I overthink the small things, and underthink the big ones, and so I apologize if I’m coming across as an ignorant arse.*

It might just be down to how you're more familiar with the idiom: lying in wait: lie in wait. 'Lay in wait' isn't grammatically wrong, but because we're more used to using 'lie/lying in wait' as the set idiom, it reads odd when lay comes in. (Or that's how my old brain's seeing at the late hour!)
 

Bufty

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Can't comment on correctness of lie/lay in this particular case, but were that my sentence I would rewrite it because, to me, the ambush reference seems to be a false attempt to create tension.

Whatever tension the ambush reference tries to create is immediately destroyed in the following sentence.
 
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PhelanLutze

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For this situation it's a form of lie correct?

Before the six guards and the boss lay fifteen meters of fields, after which the tree line started.
 

Bufty

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For this situation it's a form of lie correct?

Before the six guards and the boss lay fifteen meters of fields, after which the tree line started.

Yep- that's the right one, Phelan. You got it.

Might suggest 'beyond' as a better word than 'after' in the last phrase.

'Beyond' relates better to distance. 'After' is more related to sequence or time.

English can be tricky.:snoopy:

:Hug2:
 
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PhelanLutze

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It truly is at times; I think that most on this site would agree with you on that.
anyway thank you; just wanted to make sure that was correct. also, thank you for the suggestion; it most definitely sounds better.
 

Bufty

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It truly is at times; I think that most on this site would agree with you on that.
anyway thank you; just wanted to make sure that was correct. also, thank you for the suggestion; it most definitely sounds better.

You are welcome. Nothing wrong at all with the opening 'Before', but 'Ahead of' is again better related to distance.

Kindest,

Bufty
 

Emily Patrice

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Thanks for this thread! I hear incorrect usages so often that I now tend to second-guess myself when I need to figure out the correct one for myself.
 

Chase

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If enough people get it wrong, it must be right!

On a professionally printed handout with photographs I received during my hospital stay is the following instruction:

6. Hip Extension Stretch

Lay on your back with the bed flat, legs straight in front.

Coach’s Note: Patient lays flat and allows muscles to completely relax.


I didn't call the errors to anyone’s attention nor mention I'd taught English well over two decades, but when tested at the end of the day's program, I wrote:

"For the hip extension stretch, I’m to lie on my back on a flat surface and stretch my legs as far as possible."

Kay wrote: "My patient needs to lie flat with relaxed muscles to perform the hip stretch."

The PT assistant lined through my “lie” and Kay's and wrote “lay” on both our answer sheets. She said her mom is an English teacher is the reason she corrects quizzes and lectures patients.

I suggested she take the handout and quiz home and let mom re-explain.

Edit: Thought I'd lost the handout but found it (Naturally, I'd edited it :greenie) :

Lay-lie_2.jpg
 
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AW Admin

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On a professionally printed handout with photographs I received during my hospital stay is the following instruction:

6. Hip Extension Stretch

Lay on your back with the bed flat, legs straight in front.

Coach’s Note: Patient lay flat and allows muscles to completely relax.


I didn't call the errors to anyone’s attention nor mention I'd taught English well over two decades, but when tested at the end of the day's program, I wrote:

"For the hip extension stretch, I’m to lie on my back on a flat surface and stretch my legs as far as possible."

Kay wrote: "My patient needs to lie flat with relaxed muscles to perform the hip stretch."

The PT assistant lined through my “lie” and Kay's and wrote “lay” on both our answer sheets. She said her mom is an English teacher is the reason she corrects quizzes and lectures patients.

I suggested she take the handout and quiz home an let mom explain.

GAH!!!
 

blacbird

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The PT assistant lined through my “lie” and Kay's and wrote “lay” on both our answer sheets. She said her mom is an English teacher is the reason she corrects quizzes and lectures patients.

I suggested she take the handout and quiz home an let mom explain.

She lied.

caw
 

Maryn

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Hahahaha--or groan. At least you had some amusement.
 

Chase

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Maryn, you should be proud at the hundreds (maybe thousands) of us members this thread has helped. :Clap: :applause:
 

BethS

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The PT assistant lined through my “lie” and Kay's and wrote “lay” on both our answer sheets. She said her mom is an English teacher is the reason she corrects quizzes and lectures patients.

Arrghhhhhhhhh. Let's hope the mom knows better than the daughter.

The lie/lay thing drives me wild when I see it in published material. It's pernicious.
 
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Maryn

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The doctor peers over her reading glasses at the family surrounding the bedside. "I'm so sorry," she says. "It's pernicious."

Maryn, unable to resist