Can you point me to the rule

Justin K · Jun 12, 2014

It came up in a SYW that I have been missing commas where I need them, in sentences such as:

"That's going on your profile Stan."
"Did you forget about me Jared?"

I wasn't aware of a/the rule here. Is there one? I usually write dialogue the way someone would have spoke it, saving commas for true pauses, or emphasis.

Sage · Jun 12, 2014

The rule: When you're addressing someone, you offset the name (or title or whatever) with commas.

"Justin, you need to learn how to use commas properly."
"But, Sage, I prefer using them where I pause naturally."
"I'm sorry, sir, but there are comma rules, and you should learn them so that your writing is legible. You and Joe may pause at different places in a sentence, but the place where commas go is more or less standardized."
"That makes sense. Thank you, Sage."

Btw, I pause where the commas go in both of your examples. If you don't pause, it reads unnaturally.

Someone used to have a great avatar with this example of why you need the comma:

"Let's eat Grandma."

Cannibalism is so sad, even when you keep it in the family

Justin K · Jun 12, 2014

Yeah I remember seeing that example as well. For some reason I assumed that in situations where the absence of a comma can not change the meaning, that it was optional. But I learn something new every day. Thank you!

chompers · Jun 12, 2014

Sage said:
The rule: When you're addressing someone, you offset the name (or title or whatever) with commas.

"Justin, you need to learn how to use commas properly."
"But, Sage, I prefer using them where I pause naturally."
"I'm sorry, sir, but there are comma rules, and you should learn them so that your writing is legible. You and Joe may pause at different places in a sentence, but the place where commas go is more or less standardized."
"That makes sense. Thank you, Sage."

Btw, I pause where the commas go in both of your examples. If you don't pause, it reads unnaturally.

Someone used to have a great avatar with this example of why you need the comma:

"Let's eat Grandma."

Cannibalism is so sad, even when you keep it in the family

haha, I think I just found the most awesome post on AW.

blacbird · Jun 13, 2014

Justin: Google "Purdue OWL" and bookmark that site. It is by far the best, most thorough grammar and style site available free on-line. It will cover damn near any question like this that you may have.

caw

Chase · Jun 13, 2014

Justin K said:
I usually write dialogue the way someone would have spoke it, saving commas for true pauses, or emphasis.

The comma = pause method of writing causes many reading problems, because commas are to indicate internal structures of sentences. They are for reading, not speaking.

Sometimes pauses occur due to structure--sometimes not. It's only coincidence if a comma happens at the same place.

The Oxford comma in your sentence above is an example. Once necessary, a comma or no comma has become optional due to structuring promoted in journalistic writing. Neither are to force or prohibit a pause in reading.

Here's the rule you asked for with some examples:

Comma Rule Number 4: Interjections and forms of address are set off with commas.

Yes, I will accompany you to the ball.
No, I won’t!
You, sir, are out of line.
You may be assured, ma’am, of our concern.
Are you certain of that prognosis, Doctor?
Thank you, Mother, for all you do.

There’s a world of difference between “Let’s eat, Grandpa” and “Let’s eat Grandpa.”

AJMarks · Jun 13, 2014

"That's going on your profile Stan."
"Did you forget about me Jared?"

I read them with a pause, but also without. Honestly though, you probably could drop the names. If you listen to people talk in normal conversations names are not used that often. Many times writers put names in too much. This is especially true if its just two people talking.

Bufty · Jun 13, 2014

A comma is required before Stan and Jared if they are meant to be folk to whom the dialogue is addressed.

Omitting the comma because the speaker supposedly didn't pause is totally irrelevant.

AJMarks said:
"That's going on your profile Stan."
"Did you forget about me Jared?"

I read then with a pause, but also without. Honestly though, you probably could drop the names. If you listen to people talk in normal conversations names are not used that often. Many times writers put names in too much. This is especially true if its just two people talking.

King Neptune · Jun 13, 2014

Bufty said:
A comma is required before Stan and Jared if they are meant to be folk to whom the dialogue is addressed.

Omitting the comma because the speaker supposedly didn't pause is totally irrelevant.

And sometimes it can be misinterpreted either way.
Did you forget about me Jared?
Did you forget about me, Jared?

It could be that Jared is being addressed, or the speaker could be named Jared and be emphasizing himself. Putting the name at the beginning would eliminate the misinterpretation.

alexaherself · Jun 14, 2014

Justin K said:
I wasn't aware of a/the rule here. Is there one?

Yes.

I'm confident that you'll find it in any standard grammar textbook (or on the Purdue OWL website, as recommended above).

Fallen · Jun 14, 2014

The technical term is 'vocative' (direct address to someone.) The comma is used to show it has a loose grammatical tie to the main clause:

Let's go clubbing, seals.

Otherwise without the comma, it becomes part of the main clase:

Let's go clubbing seals.

Ughh.

NRoach · Jun 14, 2014

Fallen said:
The technical term is 'vocative' (direct address to someone.) The comma is used to show it has a loose grammatical tie to the main clause:

Let's go clubbing, seals.

Otherwise without the comma, it becomes part of the main clase:

Let's go clubbing seals.

Ughh.

Or my personal favourite:
I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse.

Fallen · Jun 14, 2014

NRoach said:
Or my personal favourite:
I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse.

Chase · Jun 14, 2014

, to be sure. On the adverse side are commas wrongly inserted to force pauses.

Two examples:

1. Gary told a story so old, it had moss hanging from it.

If we remove "that" from a line, we shouldn't replace it with a comma. It's better to delete the comma, leave "that" between old and it, or rewrite the line.

2. So, how many attended the graduation ceremony?

Conjunctions (and, or, nor, but, for, yet, so) beginning sentences shouldn't be set off with commas as if they were adverbs, such as however, then, also, consequently, etc.

Commas tossed in for whatever reason tend to confuse structure.

If we want a pause to follow so or any conjunction, we might consider:

So--how many attended the graduation ceremony?
or
So . . . how many attended the graduation ceremony?

Gringa · Jun 14, 2014

NRoach said:
Or my personal favourite:
I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse.

LynnKHollander · Jul 4, 2014

I wasn't aware of a/the rule here. Is there one? I usually write dialogue the way someone would have spoke it, saving commas for true pauses, or emphasis.

--There is a rule: interjections and clauses not necessary to the meaning of the sentence are set off with commas. Direct address --someone's name-- is an interjection. Understand, Justin? --where I am asking Justin if he understands; as opposed to Understand Justin? --where the question is about comprehending Justin, who may be beyond my understanding.

Can you point me to the rule

Justin K

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

Justin K

chompers

blacbird

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

AJMarks

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

King Neptune

alexaherself

Wordsmith and shoechick

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

NRoach

Fallen

Stood at the coalface

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

Gringa

LynnKHollander

This space intentionally left blank