What Constitutes YA Fiction?

Here is another complication for you. My books tend to have teens, and are written from a teen POV, but still probably wouldn’t be considered YA because they don’t really deal with teen issues per se. I mean, my first book is about a teen caught in the 24/7 news cycle as an example of a vicious thug.

I’ve just come to the conclusion that I am going to tell the stories that I come up with, and do so to the best of my ability, and not give a hoot about whether it is YA or not. I’ll be more concerned about SF or Fantasy. If some marketing person thinks it is YA, I’ll leave the decision to them.

So, you could just do what I do, and tell the story.

Browland86 said:

I've had this question too. My WIP has 3 central characters, 2 of which are teens/children, but I haven't been writing it with the mindset, Okay, this is a YA novel. My aim is 80K words at least, which seems to be longer than the standard YA novel. If one of the central characters is an adult with adult concerns, would the novel still be classified as YA?

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From what I've read, 80,000 words is just fine for YA. Really, anything under 100,000 is okay. Several agent blogs I've seen say 60,000 -80,000 is good, and for paranormal romance or fantasy, up to 100,000. It's when it creeps over hte 100,000 mark that people get squirmy, I think.

E. B. Pike said:

From what I've read, 80,000 words is just fine for YA. Really, anything under 100,000 is okay. Several agent blogs I've seen say 60,000 -80,000 is good, and for paranormal romance or fantasy, up to 100,000. It's when it creeps over hte 100,000 mark that people get squirmy, I think.

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Okay, thanks for clarifying, E.B. I suppose I had read somewhere that YA novels were generally shorter. It's good to know there's some leeway.

It's curious, for instance, that The Book Thief was marketed as YA in the US when it was published as an adult book in its original country (UK?). Do you think some adults wouldn't pick it up if they perceived it as YA? Or does that increase its appeal in the US?

Browland86 said:

It's curious, for instance, that The Book Thief was marketed as YA in the US when it was published as an adult book in its original country (UK?). Do you think some adults wouldn't pick it up if they perceived it as YA? Or does that increase its appeal in the US?

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That's an interesting question. It appealed to me as a young teen, and I didn't even realize that it had been marketed different in other countries. Marcus Zusack's books can be considered both adult and young-adult, in my opinion. So I don't know about appeal, but I definitely think The Book Thief should be read by everyone.

I'm too lazy to read all eleven pages of this thread, so I apologize if this question has already been answered, but seeing as almost anything goes in YA lit nowadays (you can use as much sex and violence and etc. as adult fiction), I find myself wondering what distinguishes YA from adult anymore? Because if it's having young protagonists, A Song of Ice and Fire has several teen and kid protagonists in its series, but no one would call it YA.

I ask because right now, I think my WIP is in the YA camp, but I want to be sure. All the protagonists are pretty much teens and preteens, but there is considerable violence and profanity. I know those last two don't bar it from being YA, but I would like a clear definition of YA so I know how to better market my work once it's done.

I'm in the same boat, Emermouse. The novel that I'm shopping around has a teen protagonist and touches on his life in school, but overall the book has "adult themes". I had my first rejection letter stating that my protagonist's age and his "high school troubles" make it "more YA than adult", but c'mon, Carries was about a high school girl and high school troubles!

Gatsby said:

Carries was about a high school girl and high school troubles!

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YA didn't really exist as a category when Carrie was published. If it had, I'm sure that Carrie would have been published as a YA novel (14+ age range obviously), maybe rewritten to reduce or remove the chapters from adult characters' POVs...and King's career could have been entirely different as a result.

It is a book that does speak to teenagers, and it certainly helps if you read it as a teen. I was one when I read it, and it had a powerful effect on me.

Have been reading a few things on here about word count. A lot of the big Young Adult books lately in Post-Apocalyptic genres have gotten much over the numbers I've seen. The Hunger Games series seems around or even over 100,000. Same with Veronica Roth's Divergent series. And, while Harry Potter is obviously in its own category by some accounts, I do think it blazed the trail for longer word counts. People are more willing to accept that.

Also, would like to echo what many of you have said regarding the AGE of the progagonist(s) as well as coming of age motifs (self actualization, learning about the world, losing innocence). I also think there is a line that can't be crossed for some books, regarding sexuality and such, but then again there are always a few out-liers that break those rules quite obviously.

It's generally not the best idea to use the outlying bestsellers with huge followings to gauge much of anything. You'll notice that with popular series, the first book or so tends to be slimmer than later volumes. Once an author picks up a significant following, word count becomes less of an issue. Word count standards are intended for first-time, debut novelists. So things like "but *popular author* writes really long books" isn't really relevant. Agents say, again and again, that debut YA novelists should try to stick to less than 100K, and that they're wary of anything over unless the concept really blows their socks off.

And yes, science fiction and paranormal romance do often get progressively longer because they involve a lot more worldbuilding than other novels. Even so, you'll find that the 100K+ category only applies to a handful of debut novels. It's really not an indicator of a trend or pattern of accepting 100K+ debut novels. And as I recently learned, DIVERGENT started as a much smaller novel (45-50K words) than what it ended up being after editing.

I'm not a huge expert on AF, but I know YA tends to be fantastical, obesessive, (and more often than not) angsty and less complex. A story or novel made specifically for a young demographic.

There's so much crossover today it's sometimes hard to know.

YA Fiction

With YA fiction, I believe the central focus is with a character that is a young adult. Most good YA fiction takes this young adult character and progresses them through the story with similar parallels to growing up (though in different and fantastical situations).

In my opinion this involves some of the following aspects of a YA character.

1) Acquires more social skills
2) Achieve masculinity/femininity
3) Accepting changes to their body
4) Gains emotional independence
5) Preparing for sex
6) Preparing for occupation
7) Assuming membership in larger community
8) Changing ideologies

maybegenius said:

It's generally not the best idea to use the outlying bestsellers with huge followings to gauge much of anything. You'll notice that with popular series, the first book or so tends to be slimmer than later volumes. Once an author picks up a significant following, word count becomes less of an issue. Word count standards are intended for first-time, debut novelists. So things like "but *popular author* writes really long books" isn't really relevant. Agents say, again and again, that debut YA novelists should try to stick to less than 100K, and that they're wary of anything over unless the concept really blows their socks off.

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I wonder if it also applies to extremely popular short books. Like the WAKE trilogy. I think the first book is around 40k, maybe 45k, short even for a contemporary setting.

I just completed my first YA novel and I am one of those old people. As stated by Khris Khristopherson - I am closer to the end than the beginning. Reading some of the posts, my characters may be too young. The novel is loosely based on my eleven year-old daughter's first experience at summer camp.


The novel is about camper jealousy and centers on six girls, all age eleven, who are assigned the oldest cabin at Camp Bob Cat. The novel follows L. W. Patricks recent post for YA Characters Number 4.

Eddie A. said:

I just completed my first YA novel and I am one of those old people. As stated by Khris Khristopherson - I am closer to the end than the beginning. Reading some of the posts, my characters may be too young. The novel is loosely based on my eleven year-old daughter's first experience at summer camp.


The novel is about camper jealousy and centers on six girls, all age eleven, who are assigned the oldest cabin at Camp Bob Cat. The novel follows L. W. Patricks recent post for YA Characters Number 4.

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This sounds like middle grade (mg), not YA. You might want to do some reading in the mg market to make sure your story fits in with the market, and the characters are realistic, modern eleven year olds. And check out the Writing for children section for other MG writers discussing MG.

~suki

Sage said:

Yep, it definitely sounds MG to me.

And there's nothing wrong with being an "old person" writing for kids or teens.

to AW!

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Ok, are you the same Sage at SuperHeroHype perchance?


That being said, I've been pitching my novel as a YA Epic Fantasy Horror/Adventure, but it's written in a very "traditional" fantasy voice (mildly archaic, very poetic, etc.). The problem is, while I want YAs to read this book, it's pretty heavy on violence and gore...


Crap, there're no spoiler tags? I wanted to post a passage from my book as an example so you guys had a better idea of what I'm talking about, but I didn't want it to take up a lot of space...Oh well..

Maxinquaye said:

Here is another complication for you. My books tend to have teens, and are written from a teen POV, but still probably wouldn’t be considered YA because they don’t really deal with teen issues per se. I mean, my first book is about a teen caught in the 24/7 news cycle as an example of a vicious thug.

I’ve just come to the conclusion that I am going to tell the stories that I come up with, and do so to the best of my ability, and not give a hoot about whether it is YA or not. I’ll be more concerned about SF or Fantasy. If some marketing person thinks it is YA, I’ll leave the decision to them.

So, you could just do what I do, and tell the story.

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This is how I feel. I thought my book would be more interesting to teens and young adults in their twenties, but so far my main audience buying has been women and men between 40-60. I only know this from friendship adds on fb or their fan mail. It's likely that people just like what they like, so I'm not really into labels as much anymore. You just never know?

I tend to follow a few rules when I start out a YA novel:

1. The protagonist must be under 19 years old.
2. The protagonist must be the one to solve the main problem. (If he/she can't, the story tends to fall into Middle Grade.)
3. The plot must encapsulate some sort of teenage experience. (For Twilight, First Love. For Hunger Games, Disillusionment. For Harry Potter, Generally stepping into Adulthood.)

RunawayScribe said:

In particular, what separates it from "regular," adult fiction? Your thoughts?

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Excellent question. It's one to which I myself have had to lend a tremendous amount of thought. I'm currently working on a YA proj that features a 14-year-old protagonist... So technically eighth grade... So technically middle grade?
Except not.
I referred to Sherman Alexie's novel THE ABSOLUTELY TRUE DIARY OF A PART-TIME INDIAN for answers. In that book, Alexie features an eighth-grade protagonist who really and truly is trying to discover what his identity as an American Indian means to him... As a son, as a friend, as a brother, etc... He's referred to as a traitor by his friends. He is cognizant of his dad's alcoholism. He is also very aware of the fact that he has a sex drive.
So... yeah... Not middle grade material exactly.
I was once given some advice: YA is a mirror. MG is a window to the world.

I think I might face this issue...my series is three novels the first taking place at the end of high school, the second is at the end of college, and the third takes place with motherhood...would it be considered YA with crossover appeal?

Mathion said:

That being said, I've been pitching my novel as a YA Epic Fantasy Horror/Adventure, but it's written in a very "traditional" fantasy voice (mildly archaic, very poetic, etc.). The problem is, while I want YAs to read this book, it's pretty heavy on violence and gore...

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I know exactly how you feel. At least half of my target audience are teens around the ages of 15 and up, but a good deal of my story is... eh, let's just say it's a tad risque. There's no sex or anything like that, but there are at least several scenes that contain nudity, though I do try to be a tad classy and refrain from actually mentioning any private areas.

To be honest, I'm not sure what category my story would fall into. Maybe that's why I simply put that it's a romantic/comedy and didn't try to categorize it as YA, NA or AF.

Crossover?

It hard to say whether yours could be considered YA if the majority of the story isn't actually occuring in the adolescent years. A teenager isn't going to be able to relate with motherhood, for the most part. I agree that its so hard to determine what genre novels are anymore. I am working on a novel that I think is dubbed Historical Fantasy, but I'm not sure about that one. It takes a far turn from historical accuracy not far into the novel. I agree with one of the previous posts. Let the agent decide. They'll get it where it needs to be.

zooloo said:

I agree with one of the previous posts. Let the agent decide. They'll get it where it needs to be.

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But wouldn't you not knowing the genre to your own story show a lack of forethought and knowledge on your part? I don't know if that would make a very good impression with the agent you're querying, especially since I believe you're generally supposed to state what genre your novel is in the query letter.