18+ characters too old for YA?

oooooh · Mar 24, 2014

Just a quick question, I know it's been asked a few times I was just wondering how it pertains to this particular situation.

Is it still YA if the characters aren't teens? If they're, say, University age? My core group of characters are aged 18 to 23, a few of them in university, a few of them working, etc.

The story is Urban Fantasy and the basic premise is 'young people with superpowers who fight bad guys'. The plot, pacing, sentence structure, etc. are all very reminiscent of YA, maybe with a few more swear words thrown in. No excessive drug use/sexual content. But is it no longer YA because the characters aren't strictly teens (though in their defense they do still pretty much act like teens)?

I don't want to age down my characters. Am I trying too hard to make my work "fit" YA?

JustSarah · Mar 24, 2014

Well I used to write YA. I tended to feature 18 years old as the limit, with such stories often crossing over between YA and NA.

I hope that helps.

breaking_burgundy · Mar 24, 2014

If they're 18 and in high school, it's YA. If it's 18 and in college, it's definitely more NA.

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 24, 2014

I'm having this problem too. My viewpoint is 19 years old but I think the story does not fit NA at all. I don't even think it really fits YA much, either.

rwm4768 · Mar 24, 2014

Too old for YA, so you might just want to call it urban fantasy. You could try the NA route, but NA speculative fiction has not yet caught on.

oooooh · Mar 24, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
I'm having this problem too. My viewpoint is 19 years old but I think the story does not fit NA at all. I don't even think it really fits YA much, either.

Same here. Maybe I should stop thinking about genres in general, since it's also partly a marketing thing? Concentrate on the story, finish writing and then decide where it falls under?

I guess it's because I've mostly written adult fiction and now am consciously trying to write YA. I know if I only made all my characters 16 or 17 it would be a perfect fit with the genre. It's not as if going to university or working is central to any of the characters since from the get-go they are faced with supernatural forces and are on the run/away from home all the time.

Sage · Mar 25, 2014

Characters that are past high school (late 18yo+) for urban fantasy can just be regular adult. It could also be New Adult, but it's hard to say because the category is so new. In theory, characters in college are NA.

If you're aiming for YA, then anything in high school will do. You can still have 18yo characters, but they can't be beyond high school, maybe the summer afterwards. Or in a world where there are no schools, you can probably get away with any 18 year old.

I'm sure you've read tons of YA, but it's the best piece of advice there is: read YA and see if your story meets the same age range, themes, pacing, etc. as the books that are published within this group. Also check out the stickies in here and see the wisdom collected in here over time about what is YA and how it differs from adult and MG (I don't think we have NA, such as it's become, into the stickies yet).

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 25, 2014

Sage said:
Characters that are past high school (late 18yo+) for urban fantasy can just be regular adult. It could also be New Adult, but it's hard to say because the category is so new. In theory, characters in college are NA.

If you're aiming for YA, then anything in high school will do. You can still have 18yo characters, but they can't be beyond high school, maybe the summer afterwards. Or in a world where there are no schools, you can probably get away with any 18 year old.

I'm sure you've read tons of YA, but it's the best piece of advice there is: read YA and see if your story meets the same age range, themes, pacing, etc. as the books that are published within this group. Also check out the stickies in here and see the wisdom collected in here over time about what is YA and how it differs from adult and MG (I don't think we have NA, such as it's become, into the stickies yet).

That doesn't really help me much.

My MC is in "high school" as a 19-year-old, or 12th grade because he's been held back a year. The story takes place during a month-long winter break. Most of the other characters are older than him, and there are a couple who are younger. The way the school works in their city he would be going to "junior college" next, which is actually in the same building -- and it's hard to say how much all of this matters because the age of majority in the country he lives in is not 18 but 21-23.

I don't know about the themes yet, but at this time the pacing is way off of YA (though that might mean it's just really bad) and I don't think the plot would be of interest to YA readers.

CJ Knightrey · Mar 25, 2014

I really REALLY wish NA speculative was a thing but it isn't (yet at least). You're characters are too old for YA unfortunately, unless you do something along the lines of what Sage said. 21-23 is probably to old to be around high school, but I did have a friend in my some of my grade 12 classes who was 20. That's a little out of the norm but to be fair, he came back for a 'victory lap' because he wasn't sure about college yet and has a birthday in January.

You can play around with nixing school all together and doing something like 'Tomorrow People' with underground organizations and such (which might not work at all for your plot, in which case ignore this suggestion all together

). I think whether or not it's really YA has a lot to do with themes, but the main characters age as well. If your MC is 17 (possibly 18?) and in high school, I think you can get away with older secondary characters.

kenpochick · Mar 25, 2014

I agree, either just call it urban fantasy or call it NA.

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 25, 2014

CJ Knightrey said:
I really REALLY wish NA speculative was a thing but it isn't (yet at least). You're characters are too old for YA unfortunately, unless you do something along the lines of what Sage said. 21-23 is probably to old to be around high school, but I did have a friend in my some of my grade 12 classes who was 20. That's a little out of the norm but to be fair, he came back for a 'victory lap' because he wasn't sure about college yet and has a birthday in January.

You can play around with nixing school all together and doing something like 'Tomorrow People' with underground organizations and such (which might not work at all for your plot, in which case ignore this suggestion all together ). I think whether or not it's really YA has a lot to do with themes, but the main characters age as well. If your MC is 17 (possibly 18?) and in high school, I think you can get away with older secondary characters.

Well there does seem to be an "underground organization," but it's closer to organized crime than black ops, which means the character has to be in school or training until he's 21 unless he gets some kind of special exception.

The characters who are older than the MC are even older than that. His brother is 24 or so, a friend is 23 or so but went off-grid at 17, another character is 29-ish and is actually a school teacher. Another character is in her 30s or 40s. There's a ghost who the MC estimates to be about 12, two other characters who are a year or so younger than him...

CJ Knightrey · Mar 25, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
Well there does seem to be an "underground organization," but it's closer to organized crime than black ops, which means the character has to be in school or training until he's 21 unless he gets some kind of special exception.

The characters who are older than the MC are even older than that. His brother is 24 or so, a friend is 23 or so but went off-grid at 17, another character is 29-ish and is actually a school teacher. Another character is in her 30s or 40s. There's a ghost who the MC estimates to be about 12, two other characters who are a year or so younger than him...

Okay, so this could work as YA with a few caveats. Theme and character arc of your MC is going to be very important to make it really feel like YA, as is pacing. The older secondary characters aren't that big of a deal. It would be ideal if there were some major secondary character that are teens to help the YA feel, but I don't think it's 100% necessary. I've got secondary character in my WIP that range from 16-60, but they aren't main characters so I don't worry much about it.

Is there a particular reason your MC has to be 19? Would it be possible for him to be 17? The fact that their school/training lasts until their 21 helps with extending your age range, so that's a plus. Are there main secondary character in their teens?

Undercover · Mar 25, 2014

I agree with the others in that it sounds more NA, especially if they're in college.

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 25, 2014

CJ Knightrey said:
Okay, so this could work as YA with a few caveats. Theme and character arc of your MC is going to be very important to make it really feel like YA, as is pacing. The older secondary characters aren't that big of a deal. It would be ideal if there were some major secondary character that are teens to help the YA feel, but I don't think it's 100% necessary. I've got secondary character in my WIP that range from 16-60, but they aren't main characters so I don't worry much about it.

Is there a particular reason your MC has to be 19? Would it be possible for him to be 17? The fact that their school/training lasts until their 21 helps with extending your age range, so that's a plus. Are there main secondary character in their teens?

There are a couple secondary characters who are teenagers but I don't know how important they're going to be. The most important characters at this time, it seems like, are his brother, the teacher (who is not his teacher), the "off-grid" guy, and a girl who's a construct who, I think, is actually about 50 years old.

The reason the character is 19 is because the character has to be adequately distanced from his early teen years. Certain stuff happened in his early teen years (that cannot be moved back further) and I think 19 is a good amount of distance from that.

Cathy C · Mar 25, 2014

Is there a reason you're not happy with plain old Urban Fantasy? The age group you're describing is pretty much the age group of most adult UF on the market (including my own.) Our Blood Singer series sells overseas as Children's/YA, but here in the US, they're on the adult shelves. :Shrug:

CJ Knightrey · Mar 25, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
There are a couple secondary characters who are teenagers but I don't know how important they're going to be. The most important characters at this time, it seems like, are his brother, the teacher (who is not his teacher), the "off-grid" guy, and a girl who's a construct who, I think, is actually about 50 years old.

The reason the character is 19 is because the character has to be adequately distanced from his early teen years. Certain stuff happened in his early teen years (that cannot be moved back further) and I think 19 is a good amount of distance from that.

Hmm, okay that might be a little difficult. It's not impossible, theme and voice are going to be the most important thing here I think. It really could go either adult or YA depending on how it's handled. If NA spec was a thing this would probably fit there well...

WHY CAN'T IT BE A THING?! :gaah

*coughs* Anywho, I see you're dilemma. And I don't have any suggestions on how to fix it. :Shrug:

ETA: Seconding Cathy, is there a reason you want it to be YA?

RensPen · Mar 25, 2014

great guidelines to follow! so helpful, especially since my novel's protagonist is 18-just out of high school but not going to college- and I've been calling it a YA book. Nice to know that it probably would fit better in the NA category

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 25, 2014

Cathy C said:
Is there a reason you're not happy with plain old Urban Fantasy? The age group you're describing is pretty much the age group of most adult UF on the market (including my own.) Our Blood Singer series sells overseas as Children's/YA, but here in the US, they're on the adult shelves.

I thought you guys were talking to the OP with this UF recommendation.

The reason why I'm not happy with Urban Fantasy is because it isn't Urban Fantasy.

CJ Knightrey · Mar 25, 2014

Hapax Legomenon said:
I thought you guys were talking to the OP with this UF recommendation.

The reason why I'm not happy with Urban Fantasy is because it isn't Urban Fantasy.

Okay, well scratch the UF suggestion part. Is there a reason why you want it to be YA and not something in Adult fiction?

ETA: the UF suggestion still stands for the OP though

Hapax Legomenon · Mar 25, 2014

CJ Knightrey said:
Okay, well scratch the UF suggestion part. Is there a reason why you want it to be YA and not something in Adult fiction?

ETA: the UF suggestion still stands for the OP though

It seems more of a fact that the character is still in high school, that the physical place of the school is important, and that the MC is not "looking back at his life as a teenager" means that trying to classify it as any sort of adult fiction is "not allowed".

Cathy C · Mar 25, 2014

I was talking to the OP, Hapax, since the thread belongs to them.

For future reference, it's always better to start a new thread when the details of your book are not the same as the OP's, even if you have the same question.

When the MC and most of his/her friends are in high school, or early college, YA can still apply. New Adult usually starts as a senior in college (so when the people are 21-23) but haven't yet begun a life apart from parents and school. It's the challenges of finding your own place in the world (first apartment, dating, banking) that are the basis of the NA books on the market now.

oooooh · Mar 26, 2014

Cathy C said:
I was talking to the OP, Hapax, since the thread belongs to them.

For future reference, it's always better to start a new thread when the details of your book are not the same as the OP's, even if you have the same question.

When the MC and most of his/her friends are in high school, or early college, YA can still apply. New Adult usually starts as a senior in college (so when the people are 21-23) but haven't yet begun a life apart from parents and school. It's the challenges of finding your own place in the world (first apartment, dating, banking) that are the basis of the NA books on the market now.

I just feel very attached to Young Adult because I've been reading it and wanting to add my own voice to the genre. I know it's not good to think of target audience and marketing or whatever when writing a manuscript, but I do have the intentions of publishing this (if it survives all my revisions and doesn't end up mutating into something else).

The rough outline of the story goes like this: group of young adults (MC is 21, his best friend is 20, two 18 yr olds and a 19 yr old) discover that they possess superpowers, gov't interferes and locks them away for "observations", they escape only to find the world overrun by beastly creatures, they do their best to fight them off while trying to look for answers, etc....

I guess I'm structuring my plot content to adhere somewhat with YA. If it was just Urban Fantasy, I'd let myself go a bit more in regards to content, drug use/violence/etc.

From what I've read about NA it definitely doesn't fit that genre. I guess I have two choices, 1. age them down 2. stop trying to make it YA...

MttStrn · Mar 26, 2014

oooooh said:
I guess I have two choices, 1. age them down 2. stop trying to make it YA...

This is exactly your choice. With an MC of 21 you are solidly out of YA no matter the themes.

Cathy C · Mar 26, 2014

oooooh said:
I guess I'm structuring my plot content to adhere somewhat with YA. If it was just Urban Fantasy, I'd let myself go a bit more in regards to content, drug use/violence/etc.

From what I've read about NA it definitely doesn't fit that genre. I guess I have two choices, 1. age them down 2. stop trying to make it YA...

Not really. The other option is to write it just how you're writing it, and let the publisher make that choice. Nobody asked us when we presented the manuscript how old the people were. That was mostly in our heads (I write that series with a co-author.) But it was set in and around a college campus, where the heroine still attended classes, even though she'd already graduated, so the ages of the people were sort of implied.

Don't overthink it all. Publishers aren't quite so picky about UF books.

CJ Knightrey · Mar 26, 2014

oooooh said:
I guess I'm structuring my plot content to adhere somewhat with YA. If it was just Urban Fantasy, I'd let myself go a bit more in regards to content, drug use/violence/etc.

You'd be surprised by how much you can get away with in YA.

18+ characters too old for YA?

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