Can Your Writing Benefit from The Matrix?

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
6,735
Reaction score
1,833
Location
Limbo
So I'm watching the Matrix for the umpteenth time and am still blown away by the story.

And thought discussion about the Matrix, from a writer's standpoint, might be a great way to help our own stories and storytelling. So I ask the following to hopefully open the floor.

Why is it generally regarded as a great story?

What are some things you notice/recall about the Matrix?

How did the unconventional structure enhance the story?

Discuss the Matrix's use of story elements: characterization, foreshadowing, rising action, etc.

Knowing the plot of the Matrix, how would you have told the story?

and general Matrix ponderings.

Mel...
 

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
40,775
Reaction score
5,947
Location
Some personalized demiplane
The Matrix is built upon a faulty premise: Humans make SHITTY SOURCES OF ENERGY!

However, like Waterworld, the Matrix takes this hilariously moronic premise makes a very enjoyable action flick!
 

MattW

Company Man
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
6,326
Reaction score
855
My version of the Matrix would be told from the POV of one of Mr. Anderson's coworkers. Lazy, fat, jealous, malicious and unappreciated for his true genius of programming that Neo simply takes advantage of.

My Neo/Milton hybrid unleashes some nasty programs that simultaneously allow Neo to do cool shit nobody else could do before, while Trinity and Morpheus think he's really special.

The story of the Matrix is actually a big hacking prank perpetrated by a nihilistic jerk with ill intentions.
 

Jcomp

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
5,352
Reaction score
1,422
I can't separate the first movie from its sequels, and so the first movie suffers, even if I'm trying to just enjoy the mindless action, because while it's explosive and exciting it's also full of our "heroes" slaughtering a shit-ton of innocent security personnel. The whole "if you're not one of us you're basically just the enemy" argument falls dead on its face in light of the fact that instead of fighting for freedom they ultimately fight for a tenuous "truce" that leaves everybody within the Matrix living a better life and everyone in Zion forcing themselves to cheer for the rather pale victory of "Yes! The machines decided not to annihilate us but if they change their minds we're completely done for but in the meantime we can resume having bizarre, pointless rave-orgies!"

I think the Matrix--even the first movie in hindsight--is this gigantic missed opportunity to really explore whether fighting for a "reality" that's in every way shittier than the "illusion" is even worth it.
 

Cranky

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
14,945
Reaction score
8,145
I can't separate the first movie from its sequels, and so the first movie suffers, even if I'm trying to just enjoy the mindless action, because while it's explosive and exciting it's also full of our "heroes" slaughtering a shit-ton of innocent security personnel. The whole "if you're not one of us you're basically just the enemy" argument falls dead on its face in light of the fact that instead of fighting for freedom they ultimately fight for a tenuous "truce" that leaves everybody within the Matrix living a better life and everyone in Zion forcing themselves to cheer for the rather pale victory of "Yes! The machines decided not to annihilate us but if they change their minds we're completely done for but in the meantime we can resume having bizarre, pointless rave-orgies!"

I think the Matrix--even the first movie in hindsight--is this gigantic missed opportunity to really explore whether fighting for a "reality" that's in every way shittier than the "illusion" is even worth it.

Now that would have made a bitchin' story.
 

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary
Poetry Book Collaborator
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
13,050
Reaction score
3,524
Age
55
Website
www.trumpstump2016.com
So I'm watching the Matrix for the umpteenth time and am still blown away by the story.

And thought discussion about the Matrix, from a writer's standpoint, might be a great way to help our own stories and storytelling. So I ask the following to hopefully open the floor.

Why is it generally regarded as a great story?

What are some things you notice/recall about the Matrix?

How did the unconventional structure enhance the story?

Discuss the Matrix's use of story elements: characterization, foreshadowing, rising action, etc.

Knowing the plot of the Matrix, how would you have told the story?

and general Matrix ponderings.

Mel...

Who says it's a great story?

I think the foreshadowing was very nice. It's my favorite part of the dialogue.
 

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary
Poetry Book Collaborator
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
13,050
Reaction score
3,524
Age
55
Website
www.trumpstump2016.com
To be honest.. The concept of the Matrix is not original. I got rejected by Asimov's in 1989 with a short story of *very* similar material -- man wakes up to find he's been living a monitored dream life. I believe that the wachowski's had a better spin on the concept than my own.
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
I think the Matrix--even the first movie in hindsight--is this gigantic missed opportunity to really explore whether fighting for a "reality" that's in every way shittier than the "illusion" is even worth it.

I agree, and that was always my problem with it. The anarchists are basically deciding that what they want is what's best for everyone else, and not really giving them a choice. So how does that make them any different than the people who created the Matrix?
 

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
955
Reaction score
131
Location
Teotihuacan
To be honest.. The concept of the Matrix is not original. I got rejected by Asimov's in 1989 with a short story of *very* similar material -- man wakes up to find he's been living a monitored dream life. I believe that the wachowski's had a better spin on the concept than my own.

I've traced the idea back to Aeneas' trip to Elysium in the Aenied. Aeneas leaves through the gate dreams go through, implying that the rest of the story is all a fantasy. This makes the foundation of Rome a dream, and consequently all history. I think it goes further back than that as well, Georgias and the Sophists. Then there's the Amazonian Amerindians beliefs that the world is a fiction underlying the reality of dreams.

More recently, it rips a HUGE amount of visuals, setting, atmosphere and philosophy from the Japanese film Ghost In The Shell. Ghost In The Shell also gets way too into the philosophy so the last thirty minutes or so are almost incomprehensible.

That said, it's a fun film. I don't think it's the philosophical masterpiece that many say it is, but the fights are pretty awesome (look at how many films have leather and kung fu, that's mostly the legacy of the Matrix, although Blade did it first), the specials effects aren't bad and it's good to watch Hugo Weaving just glorying in being a total bastard.

Why is it generally regarded as a great story?

It's not a bad story, as Jcomp says, it's a giant missed opportunity. The fact that the majority of humanity would be destroyed by shutting down the matrix is referenced once, and then thrown away for the rest of the movie. Although the speed to which the main characters gun down elderly security guards is pretty indicative of their basic world view (The "liberation" "Humanity" is more important than individuals). There could have been some fantastic speculation here about people, rather than the hogy Christian/Bhuddist/elementary philosophy symbolism crammed down our throats.

I have never seen the third film, but after I saw the first one I made up the ending, and I really think they should have gone with it. Neo kills Agent Smith or whoever big bad is and shuts down the matrix. Everything goes black. Cut to him on one of the seats they used to hack into the matrix. His heart monitor flatlines. Machines cluster around him, it was all an experiment into human nature and how to control them easier. Or alternativley, have Neo fighting his way through a neverending series of matrixes forever.

What are some things you notice/recall about the Matrix?

I remember Hugo Weaving being an extraordinarily menacing antagonist, and Keanu being wooden and boring (he also only said "whoa" once and didn't even say "bogus"). Lawrence Fishburne was pretty cool, but I got a whiff of the Magical Negro at the start, that faded out though thank god.

How did the unconventional structure enhance the story?

It didn't have an unconventional structure. It went from the beginning to the end in chronological sequence without any flashbacks or forwards. The first act was the first act, the second the second, and the third the third. Don't mistake flitting between multiple computer programs as unconventional structure. It probably wouldn't have worked with anything experimental, it would be too hard to follow.

Discuss the Matrix's use of story elements: characterization, foreshadowing, rising action, etc.

The characters, apart from Smith and the Agents (who are pretty good machine characters, almost uniform, no discernable characteristics). The human characters are standard action movie archetypes. We have average joe who is the only one that can save the universe, wise mentor who is in peril, Judas, the GURL, and a slew of other characters who appear to have no purpose other than to stand around and look cyberpunk.

I didn't realise very much foreshadowing really. I can think of plot points, like the Oracle being all 'You are not the One', perhaps 'in a next life' is foreshadowing to the end. The rest I'm not too sure on, but it's been a while since I saw it.
 

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
6,735
Reaction score
1,833
Location
Limbo
So why did I call the Matrix a 'great' story?

Well, because the only person that matters says so, our audience.

Matrix Franchise made: $1,623,116,618. Each movie made over $400M

The questions I asked were questions that i've heard 'many' people ask.

Whether the questions are true or not is almost irrelevant. What matters is that many of our audience believes thay are true and understanding why should help us all.

But I'm biased, I was blown away by the Matrix.

Mel...
 

Celia Cyanide

Joker Groupie
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
15,479
Reaction score
2,295
Location
probably watching DARK KNIGHT
So why did I call the Matrix a 'great' story?

Well, because the only person that matters says so, our audience.

Matrix Franchise made: $1,623,116,618. Each movie made over $400M

I am stating the obvious here, but the francise made that much money because the first film was entertaining and had a known star doing what he does best, not because it was a great story. I'm not implying that the people who went to see it are stupid, but I don't believe they went to see it because they all thought it was a great story. I liked the movie, but I wouldn't consider it a great story. I haven't seen the third film, but the second was simply awful.

With regard to the "unconventional structure," do you mean the way the story started in the "real" world, and gradually revealed what the Matrix was?
 

Exir

Out of the cradle endlessly rocking
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
1,758
Reaction score
174
Location
SoCal (Rancho Cucamonga)
The structure wasn't unconventional at all. Classic three act structure.

I thought the film was solidly told. It's good entertainment. It's not necessarily deep, or very clever.
 
Last edited:

dclary

Unabashed Mercenary
Poetry Book Collaborator
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
13,050
Reaction score
3,524
Age
55
Website
www.trumpstump2016.com
So why did I call the Matrix a 'great' story?

Well, because the only person that matters says so, our audience.

Matrix Franchise made: $1,623,116,618. Each movie made over $400M

The questions I asked were questions that i've heard 'many' people ask.

Whether the questions are true or not is almost irrelevant. What matters is that many of our audience believes thay are true and understanding why should help us all.

But I'm biased, I was blown away by the Matrix.

Mel...


1.6 billion -- you're talking WORLD WIDE?

There's been three trilogies that did 1.6 billion domestic.


Star Wars, Empire, RotJ: (Star Wars did 1.2B by itself)

Raiders, Temple, Crusade

Phantom, Clones, Sith


There have been several other trilogies that have done 1.6 global. To be sure, it's a pretty exclusive club, but not as rare as you'd have us believe.
 

Jcomp

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
5,352
Reaction score
1,422
1.6 billion -- you're talking WORLD WIDE?

There's been three trilogies that did 1.6 billion domestic.


Star Wars, Empire, RotJ: (Star Wars did 1.2B by itself)

Raiders, Temple, Crusade

Phantom, Clones, Sith


There have been several other trilogies that have done 1.6 global. To be sure, it's a pretty exclusive club, but not as rare as you'd have us believe.

Hell, the two Transformers movies have already done 1.5 billy worldwide, and there's no way anyone's going to tell me either of those have even mediocre stories...
 

Vincent

Cheers
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,934
Reaction score
468
Then there's the Amazonian Amerindians beliefs that the world is a fiction underlying the reality of dreams.
You've really piqued my curiosity here. Where can I find more information on this subject?
 

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
40,775
Reaction score
5,947
Location
Some personalized demiplane
Now, one think you have to tell me, is...why is the Matrix so bad?

See, humans are born, live, then die, in a world that is completely normal. in fact, according to the Matrix, its us at the 'height of our civilization'.

Sure, we're being used as incredibly inefficient batteries, but...well...so?

Its a fuckton better than living in the "Real" world, which is a shitty post apocalyptic wasteland. If Neo and his pals sprung me free, I'd tell them to fuck off, put me back in the damn matrix!

And yet the only character to say such a thing was branded a villain.

I submit to you that, though the robots were not the nicest people, the HUMANS were the real villains: Ripping innocents from their fairly nice lives and throwing them into a shitty, unwinnable war.

That's like grabbing someone from 21st century America, then telling them, "Hey! Time to fight the Nazis in Russia!"

Except...they're Robot Nazis.

Which is a million times worse.
 

Enzo

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
1,190
Reaction score
71
Location
Eurasia West, Eurasia East
I read the script before I saw the movie, and I loved it. Just the concept of people traveling through telephone lines, and the whole downloading thing. I'm not a scifi fan, but the creativity of all this touched me.
Yes, the sequels were superfluous, but the original is still one of my favorite movies.
 

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
955
Reaction score
131
Location
Teotihuacan
Its a fuckton better than living in the "Real" world, which is a shitty post apocalyptic wasteland. If Neo and his pals sprung me free, I'd tell them to fuck off, put me back in the damn matrix!

Did you not see the rave sex party in Reloaded?
 

underthecity

Finestkind
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
3,126
Reaction score
768
Location
Near Cincinnati
Website
www.allensedge.com
I can't comment too much on the proposed questions, but whenever I watch the Matrix and its sequels, I ask too many questions along the way for me to enjoy the film:

So, the Matrix AI has created this world pretty much based on late 20th century Earth.

Is it the entire Earth? Or is the world just an endless city like what we saw in the trilogy?

I know there's religion, but why? Why would the AI install religion ideals into the Matrix?

Is there leisure time? Family vacations? The Grand Canyon? The US Government? Space exploration? All these things would have to be constructs of the Matrix and be there to "control" the population, but if Niagra Falls isn't an actual necessity, then would the AI have constructed it?

How much free will does everyone have? Are there still individual desires to pursue, create, and discover? If not, wouldn't the Matrix world be stagnant?

And since the AI has total control over everything that goes on inside the Matrix world, how is it even possible for Neo and the wacky gang to travel into and out of the world without the AI knowing and preventing it?

I get so bogged down with all these unanswered questions that I can't really enjoy the movies when I watch them.
 

Jcomp

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
5,352
Reaction score
1,422
Now, one think you have to tell me, is...why is the Matrix so bad?

See, humans are born, live, then die, in a world that is completely normal. in fact, according to the Matrix, its us at the 'height of our civilization'.

Sure, we're being used as incredibly inefficient batteries, but...well...so?

Its a fuckton better than living in the "Real" world, which is a shitty post apocalyptic wasteland. If Neo and his pals sprung me free, I'd tell them to fuck off, put me back in the damn matrix!

And yet the only character to say such a thing was branded a villain.

I submit to you that, though the robots were not the nicest people, the HUMANS were the real villains: Ripping innocents from their fairly nice lives and throwing them into a shitty, unwinnable war.

That's like grabbing someone from 21st century America, then telling them, "Hey! Time to fight the Nazis in Russia!"

Except...they're Robot Nazis.

Which is a million times worse.

And on top of all that, by the end of the third movie the entire plan to free humanity was abandoned for the sake of an unstable truce. It'd be different if The Matrix was shown to be severely truncating human lifespans or torturing thousands of unwitting people a day, but there's no such thing presented.

When coupled with the "Animatrix" flicks "The Second Renaissance" it makes it appear as though the humans in Zion are like Captain Ahab going after the white whale for self-righteous vengeance, when humanity were the ones who f'd with the machines in the first place.

The humans are the real villains, particularly those in Zion who have probably killed more people within The Matrix than the machines have.
 

Duncan J Macdonald

Plotting! Not Plodding!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,882
Reaction score
455
Age
66
Location
Northern Virginia
<snip down to here>

And since the AI has total control over everything that goes on inside the Matrix world, how is it even possible for Neo and the wacky gang to travel into and out of the world without the AI knowing and preventing it?

I get so bogged down with all these unanswered questions that I can't really enjoy the movies when I watch them.
Listen to the Architect. Neo is intended (and has, numerous times in the past) as an escape valve. There are a certain percentage of humans who can not fit comfortably within the Matrix, and therefore disrupt it.

The AI does know about Zion and their activities. Otherwise, why have the squid/octopus robots constantly patrolling?

Zion and the 'wacky gang' can be (to continue Agent Smith's metaphor) likened to the drainage tube inserted into a body after surgery -- an easy path to remove infection and its byproducts. Destroying Zion every few cycles is like emptying the pus-bucket when it gets too full.

The difference this time was that Agent Smith was contaminated when the (at that time) dead Neo invaded his programming and destroyed him. The AI made the mistage of reactivating that program stub without proper error-checking. Agent Smith effectively became a cancer, growing exponentially, until he could be excised.

I suspect that the next time Neo comes around that the original programming will be reinstated and Zion will be destroyed.
 

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
955
Reaction score
131
Location
Teotihuacan
I'd forgotten the animatrix, the second renaissance was amazing.
 

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
43,746
Reaction score
8,652
Location
Los Angeles
Website
www.amazon.com
Matrix is just a damn good Hero's Journey in a fantastical world that has a great premise (AI, what is real and what is fake? Machine vs. people. End of the world. Etc. etc.)

but when you drill down, it's (especially the last two movies) just glorified kung-fu fighting and mission impossible, plus the Christ allegory -- Christ's story in itself is the epitome of the Hero's Journey. So, in truth, it's nothing new: just a kick ass premise and a bunch of cool characters and great action scenes.

For another good example of plotting and how it works well, try Empires Strikes Back.
 
Last edited: